Sturdy touring wheels

Hi There:

Anybody have any recommendations for rims that maybe sturdy/rugged enough for bicycle tours on less
than perfect roads? I have in the past experienced out-of-true wheels despite having front and back
panniers and being careful on rutted roads etc. Most of the time it is the back wheel that takes the
brunt, although the front has also gotten hammered in remote places like Alaska.

I have Jobst Brandt's book "The Bicycle Wheel" and was thinking of making my own wheel once i
figured out which rims/spokes/nipples etc might be the most sturdy.

Any help will be truly appreciated, thanks.

Manju thinknotes@yahoo.com

You probably know this, but Trek 520 has Bontrager Fairlane rims, Shimano LX hubs and 36 spokes. Its
very sturdy. My guess is the only "up" from that set up is with tandem wheels. Good luck.

"ThinkNotes" <thinknotes@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6226a4e2.0312301436.adb3769@posting.google.com...
> Hi There:
>
> Anybody have any recommendations for rims that maybe sturdy/rugged enough for bicycle tours on
> less than perfect roads? I have in the past experienced out-of-true wheels despite having front
> and back panniers and being careful on rutted roads etc. Most of the time it is the back wheel
> that takes the brunt, although the front has also gotten hammered in remote places like Alaska.
>
> I have Jobst Brandt's book "The Bicycle Wheel" and was thinking of making my own wheel once i
> figured out which rims/spokes/nipples etc might be the most sturdy.
>
> Any help will be truly appreciated, thanks.
>
> Manju thinknotes@yahoo.com

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003, ThinkNotes wrote:

> Hi There:
>
> Anybody have any recommendations for rims that maybe sturdy/rugged enough for bicycle tours on
> less than perfect roads? I have in the past experienced out-of-true wheels despite having front
> and back panniers and being careful on rutted roads etc. Most of the time it is the back wheel
> that takes the brunt, although the front has also gotten hammered in remote places like Alaska.

36 hole Mavic T520 rims have served me very well on my fully loaded touring bike riding on some very
bad roads and fireroads. Note that the quality of the wheel build is as important, or more
important, than the rim. I'd also argue that, especially for the back wheel, butted spokes really
help make a durable wheel.

Mark <http://www.cs.unca.edu/~boyd/bicycling.html

Tim Carey writes:

>> Anybody have any recommendations for rims that maybe sturdy/rugged enough for bicycle tours on
>> less than perfect roads? I have in the past experienced out-of-true wheels despite having front
>> and back panniers and being careful on rutted roads etc. Most of the time it is the back wheel
>> that takes the brunt, although the front has also gotten hammered in remote places like Alaska.

>> I have Jobst Brandt's book "The Bicycle Wheel" and was thinking of making my own wheel once i
>> figured out which rims/spokes/nipples etc might be the most sturdy.

> You probably know this, but Trek 520 has Bontrager Fairlane rims, Shimano LX hubs and 36 spokes.
> Its very sturdy. My guess is the only "up" from that set up is with tandem wheels.

I think the Torelli Master might fit your need the best. Check with your local bicycle shop or
someone who carries such things.

http://www.torelli.com/home.html?htt.../wheels.html&1

On the other hand, rim damage generally occurs when the tire bottoms on the road and bends the rim.
Rims rarely become bent from loads that do not make the tire compress flat against the rim. You may
need a larger tire cross section for the loads you carry.

I've been on many rough roads with 25mm cross section tires with my minimal baggage as you can see
in pictures at:

http://tinyurl.com/2bdbr

Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

On 30 Dec 2003 14:36:18 -0800 in rec.bicycles.rides,
thinknotes@yahoo.com (ThinkNotes) wrote:

> Anybody have any recommendations for rims that maybe sturdy/rugged enough for bicycle tours on
> less than perfect roads?

ride a mountain bike rigged for touring, with inverse tread fat tires.

I loved the shot at the top of the Iseran.

Is that your son??

I not your bike has a double seat tube. Have never seen that before.

Happy New Year.

"Gearóid Ó Laoi/Garry Lee" <nospam_glee@iol.ie> wrote in message news:<bstseb$nn4$1@kermit.esat.net>...
>
> I not your bike has a double seat tube. Have never seen that before.
>

That's actually a full size frame pump, mounted behind the seat post and painted to match. Very
stylish, isn't it?

In article <6226a4e2.0312301436.adb3769@posting.google.com>, ThinkNotes
<thinknotes@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi There:
>
> Anybody have any recommendations for rims that maybe sturdy/rugged enough for bicycle tours on
> less than perfect roads? I have in the past experienced out-of-true wheels despite having front
> and back panniers and being careful on rutted roads etc. Most of the time it is the back wheel
> that takes the brunt, although the front has also gotten hammered in remote places like Alaska.
>
> I have Jobst Brandt's book "The Bicycle Wheel" and was thinking of making my own wheel once i
> figured out which rims/spokes/nipples etc might be the most sturdy.
>
> Any help will be truly appreciated, thanks.
>
> Manju thinknotes@yahoo.com

You started on the right foot by reading "The Bicycle Wheel". Depending on your weight and your
static load, most people are happy with boxed rims from Sun, Mavic, Velocity, etc laced 3 cross 36
spokes double butted DT or Wheelsmith. These are no brainer stuff. What's important is the wheel
build and the quality of it. There are basically 3 build grades for wheels. Machine, shop and
premium. Machine built wheels are common on mass marketed wheels. They are ok for running errands
and light duty touring. Eventually, however, they will require either a shop or premium rebuild. A
shop build is better than a machine. It's hand built by a wheel builder, but is not paid as much
attention in detail as a premium build and thus will work ok for most rides and tours. Last but not
least, premium build show cases what the wheel builder can do or can't do. He or she will usually
guarantee the life of the wheel against problems except rim wear. This is the creme de la creme in
wheel building and as such are charged appropriately.

Most cycle tourists have found that a combination of a shop build front wheel and a premium build
rear wheel work best for them in terms of value, assuming same rims, spokes and lacing method used.
The only money you're saving is on the labour for the front wheel, since shop build will be cheaper
than premium. Otherwise, if you choose premium for both, you won't have to worry about wheels going
out of whack everytime you go off-road..

If you want a bomb proof rear wheel, go 40 spokes rim and premium build. It will be heavier than 36
spokes, but then who cares..

Terry Morse <tmorse@spamcop.net> writes:

> Brian Huntley wrote:
>
> > That's actually a full size frame pump, mounted behind the seat post and painted to match. Very
> > stylish, isn't it?
>
> One of the few advantages of having long chain stays. Makes it easier to mount the bike on a car
> rack, also. Shouldering the bike is more comfortable. The pump gets filthy on wet days, though.

Also- improved stability, more comfortable ride, less acute deflection of chain line, etc. There's
lots of benefits.

> The one downside to long chain stays that I've noticed: climbing out of the saddle on wet roads
> makes the back wheel spin.

OTOH, it's less likely that the front wheel will come off the ground, as is common IME with short
chainstay bikes.

Thanks everyone for all their posts and responses, do appreciate it much. Have a great new year

Manju

David <biker780@dsafds.dsafdsa.yahoo.dsafds.com> wrote in message
news:<311220031642323312%biker780@dsafds.dsafdsa.yahoo.dsafds.com>...
> In article <6226a4e2.0312301436.adb3769@posting.google.com>, ThinkNotes
> <thinknotes@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi There:
> >
> > Anybody have any recommendations for rims that maybe sturdy/rugged enough for bicycle tours on
> > less than perfect roads? I have in the past experienced out-of-true wheels despite having front
> > and back panniers and being careful on rutted roads etc. Most of the time it is the back wheel
> > that takes the brunt, although the front has also gotten hammered in remote places like Alaska.
> >
> > I have Jobst Brandt's book "The Bicycle Wheel" and was thinking of making my own wheel once i
> > figured out which rims/spokes/nipples etc might be the most sturdy.
> >
> > Any help will be truly appreciated, thanks.
> >
> > Manju thinknotes@yahoo.com
>
> You started on the right foot by reading "The Bicycle Wheel". Depending on your weight and your
> static load, most people are happy with boxed rims from Sun, Mavic, Velocity, etc laced 3 cross 36
> spokes double butted DT or Wheelsmith. These are no brainer stuff. What's important is the wheel
> build and the quality of it. There are basically 3 build grades for wheels. Machine, shop and
> premium. Machine built wheels are common on mass marketed wheels. They are ok for running errands
> and light duty touring. Eventually, however, they will require either a shop or premium rebuild. A
> shop build is better than a machine. It's hand built by a wheel builder, but is not paid as much
> attention in detail as a premium build and thus will work ok for most rides and tours. Last but
> not least, premium build show cases what the wheel builder can do or can't do. He or she will
> usually guarantee the life of the wheel against problems except rim wear. This is the creme de la
> creme in wheel building and as such are charged appropriately.
>
> Most cycle tourists have found that a combination of a shop build front wheel and a premium build
> rear wheel work best for them in terms of value, assuming same rims, spokes and lacing method
> used. The only money you're saving is on the labour for the front wheel, since shop build will be
> cheaper than premium. Otherwise, if you choose premium for both, you won't have to worry about
> wheels going out of whack everytime you go off-road..
>
> If you want a bomb proof rear wheel, go 40 spokes rim and premium build. It will be heavier than
> 36 spokes, but then who cares..

Brian Huntley wrote:

> That's actually a full size frame pump, mounted behind the seat post and painted to match. Very
> stylish, isn't it?

One of the few advantages of having long chain stays. Makes it easier to mount the bike on a car
rack, also. Shouldering the bike is more comfortable. The pump gets filthy on wet days, though.

http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/bassl.../IMG_0059.html

The one downside to long chain stays that I've noticed: climbing out of the saddle on wet roads
makes the back wheel spin.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/

On 30 Dec 2003 14:36:18 -0800, thinknotes@yahoo.com (ThinkNotes)
wrote:

>Hi There:
>
>Anybody have any recommendations for rims that maybe sturdy/rugged enough for bicycle tours on less
>than perfect roads? I have in the past experienced out-of-true wheels despite having front and back
>panniers and being careful on rutted roads etc. Most of the time it is the back wheel that takes
>the brunt, although the front has also gotten hammered in remote places like Alaska.

About a year and a half ago I got involved in a project for a friend of mine. Her husband, who
weighs upward of 225# and does loaded touring, was constantly breaking spokes on the rear wheel of
his touring bike. She asked me, for a surprise birthday present, to recommend a solution. We had
Sheldon Brown build a 48-spoke rear with a Phil Woods hub and Mavic T520 rim. In a full season's
touring since acquiring that wheel he hasn't broken a single spoke.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

How much do you weigh, how much extra gear will you be carrying, what size tires will you use, ...?

I find most standard rims are strong enough if the build is top quality (as you will find explained
in Jobst's book). For example my tandem wheels are 32 hole with deep dish Campy rims, but I use 28
or 32 mm wide tires. For touring with light loads I use 28mm tires to avoid pinch flats, and the
wheels are my usual racing wheels. I've also toured with tubular tires with no problems.

Let me repeat: the quality of the build is much more important then using extra heavy rims, spokes
or hubs. Racing puts as severe stress on equipment as touring. The only change to consider between
racing and touring is tire size. (well, maybe not that extreme, but for conversation sake it's
easier to present the other side of the argument and then agreee on a halfway conclusion).

Bruce

"ThinkNotes" <thinknotes@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6226a4e2.0312301436.adb3769@posting.google.com...
> Hi There:
>
> Anybody have any recommendations for rims that maybe sturdy/rugged enough for bicycle tours on
> less than perfect roads? I have in the past experienced out-of-true wheels despite having front
> and back panniers and being careful on rutted roads etc. Most of the time it is the back wheel
> that takes the brunt, although the front has also gotten hammered in remote places like Alaska.
>
> I have Jobst Brandt's book "The Bicycle Wheel" and was thinking of making my own wheel once i
> figured out which rims/spokes/nipples etc might be the most sturdy.
>
> Any help will be truly appreciated, thanks.
>
> Manju thinknotes@yahoo.com

>Anybody have any recommendations for rims that maybe sturdy/rugged enough for bicycle tours on less
>than perfect roads?

My experience with heavy duty rims:

I cycled 6089 miles across Canada and broke 3 36-spoke touring rims. After that I replaced the rear
with a 48-spoke Mavic rim with Phil Woods hub. That lasted 12000+ miles including half-way around
Australia in 2001. Developed small stress cracks on the inner rim. I replaced with one of the same,
and got me around remainder.

I also have a set of Aerospoke wheels on a recumbent I recently bought. However, only 1250 miles on
the bike, so too early to tell long term durability.

--mev, Mike Vermeulen

Mike:

What is the approx. damage i should be looking at for a 48-spoke Mavic rim with Phil Woods hub. DO i
have to go to a "Pro" bike shop or any decent cyclery should be able to provide it?

Thanks, Manju San Jose, CA

mike.nospam@vermeulen.com (Mike Vermeulen) wrote in message news:<3ff87e3a.3900281@news.4dv.net>...
> >Anybody have any recommendations for rims that maybe sturdy/rugged enough for bicycle tours on
> >less than perfect roads?
>
> My experience with heavy duty rims:
>
> I cycled 6089 miles across Canada and broke 3 36-spoke touring rims. After that I replaced the
> rear with a 48-spoke Mavic rim with Phil Woods hub. That lasted 12000+ miles including half-way
> around Australia in 2001. Developed small stress cracks on the inner rim. I replaced with one of
> the same, and got me around remainder.
>
> I also have a set of Aerospoke wheels on a recumbent I recently bought. However, only 1250 miles
> on the bike, so too early to tell long term durability.
>
> --mev, Mike Vermeulen