What's up with rim?

Anyone know anything about the Mavic Ksyrium "Elite" wheel?
Been riding on them for more than a year and all of a sudden
I hit a bump and the true goes outta whack. The boys at my
LBS true it up and it goes back out the following ride. Next
time in a couple nipples had to be replaced then trued, and
then again I'm out the door. I do a 40+ miler and the POS
goes untrue again. LBS says that Mavic backs their stuff and
will respoke (flat-style spoke) on a new rim for a tad more
than a 100 bucks... This seems like a good deal considering
the price, but the LBS say that this just happens every now
and then and it shouldn't sway my opinin of Mavic... Is this
a normal thing that can happen to all wheels, or when I
upgrade should I move on to a stronger/lighter different
company's set? Thanks. Scottt

If you "hit a bump" with sufficient force you can dent the rim.
Once damaged it is very difficult to true a wheel by adjusting spoke tension. Tension likes to be in balance and the rim will bend to make it so... over time and as you ride.
If this is a front wheel you can get a decent one for around $100, but it won't be a cosmetic match for your existing rear.

Stronger and lighter work in oposite directions of compromise in a wheel.

__________________
David Ornee, Western Springs, IL USA

if the rim's buckled, it is very hard to re-true the wheel.
it's possible to straighten a rim, but unless you're doing
it yourself, it's probably not cost effective if you can get
the whole thing re-rimmed & spoked for only $100.

_but_, and i think this much more likely, your lbs probably
doesn't know how to true the wheel very well. i had a
buckled rear a few years back and took it to a number of
"highly reputable" shops to be re-trued. they all failed in
exactly the way you describe. the only builder that knew
what they were doing was the original builder - folks that
can build a wheel that /stays/ true are /very/ hard to find.

scottt wrote:
> Anyone know anything about the Mavic Ksyrium "Elite"
> wheel? Been riding on them for more than a year and all of
> a sudden I hit a bump and the true goes outta whack. The
> boys at my LBS true it up and it goes back out the
> following ride. Next time in a couple nipples had to be
> replaced then trued, and then again I'm out the door. I do
> a 40+ miler and the POS goes untrue again. LBS says that
> Mavic backs their stuff and will respoke (flat-style
> spoke) on a new rim for a tad more than a 100 bucks...
> This seems like a good deal considering the price, but the
> LBS say that this just happens every now and then and it
> shouldn't sway my opinin of Mavic... Is this a normal
> thing that can happen to all wheels, or when I upgrade
> should I move on to a stronger/lighter different company's
> set? Thanks. Scottt

Scott-<< Anyone know anything about the Mavic Ksyrium
"Elite" wheel? Been
> riding on them for more than a year and all of a sudden I
> hit a bump and the true goes outta whack. The boys at my
> LBS true it up and it goes back out the following ride.
> Next time in a couple nipples had to be replaced then
> trued, and then again I'm out the door. I do a 40+
>><BR><BR>

Rim is bent, warped, sick, Needs to be rebuilt. With a
locally built wheel, it could be done faster and the
wheelset could have been designed for you in the first
place. These, along with standard Ksyriums are awash with
marketing, low on delivery.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

In article
<5753b607.0407071824.15d7aeaa@posting.google.com>,
scottturnerphotography@yahoo.com says...
>Anyone know anything about the Mavic Ksyrium "Elite" wheel?
>Been riding on them for more than a year and all of a
>sudden I hit a bump and the true goes outta whack. The boys
>at my LBS true it up and it goes back out the following
>ride. Next time in a couple nipples had to be replaced then
>trued, and then again I'm out the door. I do a 40+ miler
>and the POS goes untrue again.

Sounds like a poor build/fix.

>LBS says that Mavic backs their stuff and will respoke (flat-
>style spoke) on a new rim for a tad more than a 100
>bucks... This seems like a good deal considering the price,
>but the LBS say that this just happens every now and
then and it shouldn't sway my opinin of Mavic... Is this a
normal thing that
>can happen to all wheels, or when I upgrade should I
>move on to a stronger/lighter different company's set?
>Thanks. Scottt

Charging you $100 to fix a wheel is backing their stuff?
They sucked the cash out of your wallet when you bought them
and now they want to suck some more out. Get some custom
built wheels using standard parts.
----------
Alex

In article <ZJ6dnVXOwIptXXHdRVn-ig@comcast.com>,
nospam@example.net says...
>folks that can build a wheel that /stays/ true are /very/
>hard to find.

Get a copy of 'The Bicycle Wheel' by Jobst Brandt and
you won't have to look for a decent builder. You can do
it yourself.
--------------
Alex

scottturnerphotography@yahoo.com (scottt) writes:

> Anyone know anything about the Mavic Ksyrium "Elite"
> wheel? Been riding on them for more than a year and all of
> a sudden I hit a bump and the true goes outta whack. The
> boys at my LBS true it up and it goes back out the
> following ride. Next time in a couple nipples had to be
> replaced then trued, and then again I'm out the door. I do
> a 40+ miler and the POS goes untrue again.

A little more information- how much do you weigh, are you
carrying anything on your bike (saddlebag, panniers, etc.),
do you "ride light" over bumps?

> LBS says that Mavic backs their stuff and will respoke
> (flat-style spoke) on a new rim for a tad more than a
> 100 bucks... This seems like a good deal considering
> the price,

A "good deal" compared to what? And why respoke the wheel?
If the spokes are not breaking, they're not the problem.
There's something else wrong- spoke tension is too low or
too high, the rim is starting to crack, or something. A
competent wheel builder would be able to diagnose the
problem and sort it out for you.

> but the LBS say that this just happens every now and then
> and it shouldn't sway my opinin of Mavic...

It should sway your opinion of the suitability of this
wheel... and the competence of your bike shop.

> Is this a normal thing that can happen to all wheels, or
> when I upgrade should I move on to a stronger/lighter
> different company's set?

It's not normal and is the result of either bad design, bad
building or some sort of materials failure- or any
combination of these factors. The spokes are undertensioned,
overtensioned or unevenly tensioned, I suspect. Or there's
some material failure happening- the spoke nipples are
cracking, the rim is cracking around the spoke holes, the
eyelets are pulling through the rim, something.

I've got wheels that have been in use 6-8 years for about
3,000 miles a year per set, and none of them show this sort
of problem. Some of those wheels have about 20,000 miles on
them with no spoke failures, nipple failures or rim
failures and only occasional touch up truing has been
needed. I weigh 215 lbs and am 6'4", and am reasonably
strong although perhaps not as strong as when I was a few
years younger and still raced. OTOH I do much longer rides
now, interests having changed with <ahem> maturity, but am
using the same bikes and wheels. Generally speaking, these
are 32 spoke, 3x wheels ranging from 7 to 9 speed (the
exception being some 26"-ers).

Thanks!!! That's what I'm thinking too Alex...
Alex Rodriguez <adr5@columbia.edu> wrote in message news:<cck1cg$k5r$14@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>...
> In article
> <5753b607.0407071824.15d7aeaa@posting.google.com>,
> scottturnerphotography@yahoo.com says...
> >Anyone know anything about the Mavic Ksyrium "Elite"
> >wheel? Been riding on them for more than a year and all
> >of a sudden I hit a bump and the true goes outta whack.
> >The boys at my LBS true it up and it goes back out the
> >following ride. Next time in a couple nipples had to be
> >replaced then trued, and then again I'm out the door. I
> >do a 40+ miler and the POS goes untrue again.
>
> Sounds like a poor build/fix.
>
> >LBS says that Mavic backs their stuff and will respoke
> >(flat-style spoke) on a new rim for a tad more than a
> >100 bucks... This seems like a good deal considering
> >the price, but the LBS say that this just happens every
> >now and
> then and it shouldn't sway my opinin of Mavic... Is this
> a normal thing that
> >can happen to all wheels, or when I upgrade should I
> >move on to a stronger/lighter different company's set?
> >Thanks. Scottt
>
> Charging you $100 to fix a wheel is backing their stuff?
> They sucked the cash out of your wallet when you bought
> them and now they want to suck some more out. Get some
> custom built wheels using standard parts.
> ----------
> Alex

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html is better.

Alex Rodriguez wrote:
> In article <ZJ6dnVXOwIptXXHdRVn-ig@comcast.com>,
> nospam@example.net says...
>
>>folks that can build a wheel that /stays/ true are /very/
>>hard to find.
>
>
> Get a copy of 'The Bicycle Wheel' by Jobst Brandt and you
> won't have to look for a decent builder. You can do it
> yourself.
> --------------
> Alex

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>Alex Rodriguez wrote:
>>Get a copy of 'The Bicycle Wheel' by Jobst Brandt and you
>>won't have to look for a decent builder. You can do it
>>yourself.
>http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html is better.

That axe sharp enough yet, sock puppet boy?

Anyone using Sheldon's page should note that it does not
mention the need to install a rim tape before tensioning.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?

jim beam wrote:

> Alex Rodriguez wrote:
>>
>> Get a copy of 'The Bicycle Wheel' by Jobst Brandt and you
>> won't have to look for a decent builder. You can do it
>> yourself. --------------
>
> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html is better.

Mmm, petulant resentment. My favourite!

--
Benjamin Lewis

Although the moon is smaller than the earth, it is
farther away.

On 2004-07-09 08:32:23 -0700, David Damerell
<damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> said:

> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> Alex Rodriguez wrote:
>>> Get a copy of 'The Bicycle Wheel' by Jobst Brandt and
>>> you won't have to look for a decent builder. You can do
>>> it yourself.
>> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html is better.
>
> That axe sharp enough yet, sock puppet boy?
>
> Anyone using Sheldon's page should note that it does not
> mention the need to install a rim tape before tensioning.

Why do you need to do this? My copy of "TBW" doesn't mention
it either. I've never done it.

Plus, the point would be completely moot with tubulars, no,
as they don't use rim tape?

Bill Lloyd <no.emails.thanks@foo.com> wrote:

> > David Damerell said:

> > Anyone using Sheldon's page should note that it does not
> > mention the need to install a rim tape before
> > tensioning.

> Why do you need to do this? My copy of "TBW" doesn't
> mention it either. I've never done it.
>
> Plus, the point would be completely moot with tubulars,
> no, as they don't use rim tape?

The reasoning is that the rim strip will help to constrain a
spoke which breaks during tensioning and is launched into
the face of the wheelbuilder.

I have never used a rim strip for that purpose, preferring
to stand a little to the side. That works for tubulars too.

--
Ted Bennett Portland OR

Benjamin Lewis wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>
>
>>Alex Rodriguez wrote:
>>
>>>Get a copy of 'The Bicycle Wheel' by Jobst Brandt and you
>>>won't have to look for a decent builder. You can do it
>>>yourself. --------------
>>
>>http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html is better.
>
>
> Mmm, petulant resentment. My favourite!
>
interesting in depth analysis.

sheldon's site is superb and it doesn't cost anyone a dime
to read. i don't see why stating that opinion would be a
problem. you're not forced to read it.

David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message news:<-4w*H66oq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>...
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
> >Alex Rodriguez wrote:
> >>Get a copy of 'The Bicycle Wheel' by Jobst Brandt and
> >>you won't have to look for a decent builder. You can do
> >>it yourself.
> >http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html is better.
>
> That axe sharp enough yet, sock puppet boy?

Can you please keep the discussion to technical issues
surrounding bicycles?

Thanks.

> Anyone using Sheldon's page should note that it does not
> mention the need to install a rim tape before tensioning.

The "need" doesn't exist. It's nice, but not necessary - if
you aim the spoke toward your workbench, table, floor, etc.,
a broken spoke won't do anything except surprise you, and
maybe put a mark in the surface below the wheel. It's nice
to have the nipples accessible in case you get a bit ham-
fisted and round off a nipple. If you're using Al alloy
nipples, this is a real possiblity.

Sheldon's wheelbuild stuff has the advantage of being free,
and not "encumbered" by "useless" scientific info
surrounding the physics of bicycle wheels. I put these
things in quotes because while I find them interesting and
informative, the knowledge therein is not strictly required
to build a good wheel. Just follow Mr. Browns instructions,
and you'll have what you seek, in a bicycle sense.
--
Jonesy