upgrading 27" Peugeot

Hi all,

I could really use some suggestions from someone with no financial stake in the answer (as,
e.g., a LBS).

I have a ~25 yr old lower-end Peugeot "103" (10 spd., cotter pin cranks, Rigida rims, steel frame).
Not a valuable bike, and I now have as my main bike a 2002 model Trek 2000. But I would hate to dump
the Peugeot in the landfill, and would like to use it if I can.

The problem (which led me to getting a new bike in the first place) is that the rims do not have
rolled edges, and it is nearly impossible (I am told) to find 27" tires that will work with those
rims. My choices seem to be (I am told) either to run modern tires at less than recommended
pressure (risking pinch flats), or replace the rims (which, with new tires and tubes, would run
close to $100).

It may be worth the money, because then I would have a beater bike to use with my kiddos. But what I
need to know from you r.b.t denizens is whether what I have been told (above) is accurate and
whether there is anything else I ought to know about this.

Many thanks in advance,

Dan

--
--------------
Dan Griswold Carrollton, TX
--------------

Dan Griswold <dangriswold@earthlink.net> wrote:
: Hi all,

: I could really use some suggestions from someone with no financial stake in the answer (as,
: e.g., a LBS).

: I have a ~25 yr old lower-end Peugeot "103" (10 spd., cotter pin cranks, Rigida rims, steel
: frame). Not a valuable bike, and I now have as my main bike a 2002 model Trek 2000. But I would
: hate to dump the Peugeot in the landfill, and would like to use it if I can.

: The problem (which led me to getting a new bike in the first place) is that the rims do not have
: rolled edges, and it is nearly impossible (I am told) to find 27" tires that will work with those
: rims. My choices seem to be (I am told) either to run modern tires at less than recommended
: pressure (risking pinch flats), or replace the rims (which, with new tires and tubes, would run
: close to $100).

: It may be worth the money, because then I would have a beater bike to use with my kiddos. But what
: I need to know from you r.b.t denizens is whether what I have been told (above) is accurate and
: whether there is anything else I ought to know about this.

: Many thanks in advance,

: Dan

: --
: --------------
: Dan Griswold Carrollton, TX
: --------------

Besides the wheels, Cottered cranks are real crappy.

Donate the bike.

--------------------------------
Bob Masse' kh6zv9@PE.NET
--------------------------------

You could probably find a more up-to-date, better quality and super-cheap project bike at the
Salvation Army or some such place.

You could leave them the Peugeot, or keep it for spare parts.

> Dan Griswold <dangriswold@earthlink.net> wrote:
> : I have a ~25 yr old lower-end Peugeot "103" (10 spd., cotter pin cranks, Rigida rims, steel
> : frame).... (I am told) either to run modern
tires at less than
> : recommended pressure (risking pinch flats), or replace the rims (which, with new tires and
> : tubes, would run close to $100).

>I have a ~25 yr old lower-end Peugeot "103" (10 spd., cotter pin cranks, Rigida rims, steel frame).
>Not a valuable bike, and I now have as my main bike a 2002 model Trek 2000. But I would hate to
>dump the Peugeot in the landfill, and would like to use it if I can.
>
>The problem (which led me to getting a new bike in the first place) is that the rims do not have
>rolled edges, and it is nearly impossible (I am told) to find 27" tires that will work with those
>rims. My choices seem to be (I am told) either to run modern tires at less than recommended
>pressure (risking pinch flats), or replace the rims (which, with new tires and tubes, would run
>close to $100).
>
>It may be worth the money, because then I would have a beater bike to use with my kiddos. But what
>I need to know from you r.b.t denizens is whether what I have been told (above) is accurate and
>whether there is anything else I ought to know about this.

If the bike is functional now and you don't need to locate French threaded parts (this may not be
French threaded-anyone know for sure?) the tires shouldn't be a big deal. The issue is if the beads
are straight or hook bead as on most (all?) modern rims. 27" tires are around, make sure they're
wire beaded (most are).Just get 27 x 1
1/4" so you're not there trying to pump up skinny tires to high pressures. 100psi should be ok. Use
care that tire fits to rim and tube is situated before pumping up. A little yard sale/flea mkt
surveillance would probably turn up a donor bike with 27" aluminum hook bead rims. I wouldn't
spend tons of money on it though. Pete Geurds Douglassville, PA

Dan Griswold wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I could really use some suggestions from someone with no financial stake in the answer (as,
> e.g., a LBS).
>
> I have a ~25 yr old lower-end Peugeot "103" (10 spd., cotter pin cranks, Rigida rims, steel
> frame). Not a valuable bike, and I now have as my main bike a 2002 model Trek 2000. But I would
> hate to dump the Peugeot in the landfill, and would like to use it if I can.
>
> The problem (which led me to getting a new bike in the first place) is that the rims do not have
> rolled edges, and it is nearly impossible (I am told) to find 27" tires that will work with
> those rims.

The people telling you that are misinformed.

> My choices seem to be (I am told) either to run modern tires at less than recommended pressure
> (risking pinch flats),

"Recommended pressure" marked on tires is utterly valueless information in most cases.

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/tires.html#pressure for a detailed explanation of why that is so.

Back when this bike was new, the standard inflation pressure recommendation for 1 1/4" tires was
70-75 psi. Any 27 x 1 1/4 tire properly seated should be able to handle that on your Rigida rims.

It is true that if you want to go up to 100 psi or thereabouts, hooked rims are de rigeur, but that
is higher than optimal for a 1 1/4" tire unless you're very heavy indeed.

Many tires these days say "for hooked bead rims only" or "for crochet type rims" (the latter from a
Dutch company that gets English and French mixed up.)

That's just to make the legal department happy, and to justify printing excessively high pressure
recommendations on the sidewall. (This is a marketing strategy, based on the fact that many
ill-informed customers assume that a high pressure rating is a sign of a superior tire.)

Have a careful look at the fork. The son of a friend of mine had one of these bikes, and one day
his front wheel fell of, causing him to crash. At first we assumed this was a quick-release issue,
but it turned out that one of the fork ends hadn't been brazed in properly, it had just been held
by the paint!

Dan Griswold wrote:

> Besides the wheels, Cottered cranks are real crappy.

Cottered cranks were the norm for all high quality bikes for most of a century. They are a pain to
service, and add a bit of weight, but they no less reliable than cotterless cranks.

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/cotters

Sheldon "They Don't Make Paint Like They Used To" Brown +------------------------------------+
| France, France...if not for you, | the world would be alone! | --Victor Hugo |
+------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772
FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Dan,don't upgrade this 25 yr old bike. Keep it alive and keep it to go to the market! Doc. "Dan
Griswold" <dangriswold@earthlink.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
87k7e90wye.fsf@cantor.griswold.home...
> Hi all,
>
> I could really use some suggestions from someone with no financial stake in the answer (as,
> e.g., a LBS).
>
> I have a ~25 yr old lower-end Peugeot "103" (10 spd., cotter pin cranks, Rigida rims, steel
> frame). Not a valuable bike, and I now have as my main bike a 2002 model Trek 2000. But I would
> hate to dump the Peugeot in the landfill, and would like to use it if I can.
>
> The problem (which led me to getting a new bike in the first place) is that the rims do not have
> rolled edges, and it is nearly impossible (I am told) to find 27" tires that will work with those
> rims. My choices seem to be (I am told) either to run modern tires at less than recommended
> pressure (risking pinch flats), or replace the rims (which, with new tires and tubes, would run
> close to $100).
>
> It may be worth the money, because then I would have a beater bike to use with my kiddos. But what
> I need to know from you r.b.t denizens is whether what I have been told (above) is accurate and
> whether there is anything else I ought to know about this.
>
> Many thanks in advance,
>
> Dan
>
> --
> --------------
> Dan Griswold Carrollton, TX
> --------------

Sheldon Brown <captbike@sheldonbrown.com> writes:

> The people telling you that are misinformed.

I thought so, but I was at a disadvantage with the LBSs I visited (although I do like my new bike!).

> Back when this bike was new, the standard inflation pressure recommendation for 1 1/4" tires was
> 70-75 psi. Any 27 x 1 1/4 tire properly seated should be able to handle that on your Rigida rims.
>
> It is true that if you want to go up to 100 psi or thereabouts, hooked rims are de rigeur, but
> that is higher than optimal for a 1 1/4" tire unless you're very heavy indeed.

This makes a lot of sense to me. I did have 1 1/8" tires on there. Maybe that's what I probably
would have trouble replacing. For the use I have in mind for the Peugeot, the wider, lower pressure
tires would be fine. Would 1 1/4 work fine on these same rims on which I've been using 1 1/8?

> Have a careful look at the fork. The son of a friend of mine had one of these bikes, and one day
> his front wheel fell of, causing him to crash. At first we assumed this was a quick-release issue,
> but it turned out that one of the fork ends hadn't been brazed in properly, it had just been held
> by the paint!

That's scary! As I said, I've had this bike for ~25 years. Wouldn't I have noticed something wrong?
Thanks for the warning!

Thank you, Sheldon.

Dan

--
--------------
Dan Griswold Carrollton, TX
--------------

I pontificated:

>>Back when this bike was new, the standard inflation pressure recommendation for 1 1/4" tires was
>>70-75 psi. Any 27 x 1 1/4 tire properly seated should be able to handle that on your Rigida rims.
>>
>>It is true that if you want to go up to 100 psi or thereabouts, hooked rims are de rigeur, but
>>that is higher than optimal for a 1 1/4" tire unless you're very heavy indeed.

Dan Griswold wrote:

> This makes a lot of sense to me. I did have 1 1/8" tires on there. Maybe that's what I
> probably would have trouble replacing. For the use I have in mind for the Peugeot, the wider,
> lower pressure tires would be fine. Would 1 1/4 work fine on these same rims on which I've
> been using 1 1/8?

Yes, 1 1/4 is what those rims were designed for.

>>Have a careful look at the fork. The son of a friend of mine had one of these bikes, and one day
>>his front wheel fell of, causing him to crash. At first we assumed this was a quick-release issue,
>>but it turned out that one of the fork ends hadn't been brazed in properly, it had just been held
>>by the paint!
>
>
> That's scary! As I said, I've had this bike for ~25 years. Wouldn't I have noticed something
> wrong? Thanks for the warning!

It's not the years it's the miles, or rather, in this case, the kilometers. If it has been used over
most of those 25 years, it's probably OK

Sheldon "Pneus" Brown +----------------------------------------------+
| Every person who has mastered a profession | is a skeptic concerning it. | --George
| Bernard Shaw |
+----------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

"Dan Griswold" <dangriswold@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:87k7e90wye.fsf@cantor.griswold.home...
> Hi all,
>
> I could really use some suggestions from someone with no financial stake in the answer (as,
> e.g., a LBS).
>
> I have a ~25 yr old lower-end Peugeot "103" (10 spd., cotter pin cranks, Rigida rims, steel
> frame). Not a valuable bike, and I now have as my main bike a 2002 model Trek 2000. But I would
> hate to dump the Peugeot in the landfill, and would like to use it if I can.
>
> The problem (which led me to getting a new bike in the first place) is that the rims do not have
> rolled edges, and it is nearly impossible (I am told) to find 27" tires that will work with those
> rims. My choices seem to be (I am told) either to run modern tires at less than recommended
> pressure (risking pinch flats), or replace the rims (which, with new tires and tubes, would run
> close to $100).
>
> It may be worth the money, because then I would have a beater bike to use with my kiddos. But what
> I need to know from you r.b.t denizens is whether what I have been told (above) is accurate and
> whether there is anything else I ought to know about this.

I have no financial stake in this. You do not mention the model of rim. Peugeot used their
"Carbolite 103" high carbon frame tube on many mid-price models. If you have RigidAlu or Rigida 1622
aluminum rims, mounting any modern 27" tire should be easy. With a steel Rigida SuperChromix rim,
care should be taken to ensure the molded lip of the tire is evenly seated just above the braking
surface at about 30-40 psi before fully inflating the tire. A schpritz of spray wax (Pledge or
similar) helps. And make sure the rim liner ( should be rubber, not cloth) covers the nipples but
does not occlude the tire seat.

--
Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971

Dan Griswold <dangriswold@earthlink.net> wrote in news:87n0j44ou2.fsf@cantor.griswold.home:
> This makes a lot of sense to me. I did have 1 1/8" tires on there. Maybe that's what I
> probably would have trouble replacing. For the use I have in mind for the Peugeot, the wider,
> lower pressure tires would be fine. Would 1 1/4 work fine on these same rims on which I've
> been using 1 1/8?

They will work. Make sure you get wire bead tires. Those old French bikes used straight wall rims
which don't have the hooks that folding tires require. Without the hooks, your tires can literally
blow off, hopefully when you're pumping them rather than when you're riding.

Sheldon Brown <captbike@sheldonbrown.com> writes:

>>> Any 27 x 1 1/4 tire properly seated should be able to handle that on your Rigida rims.

These are still readily available? (Sorry for so many ignorant questions...)

>>>Have a careful look at the fork.

> It's not the years it's the miles, or rather, in this case, the kilometers. If it has been used
> over most of those 25 years, it's probably OK

Well, I used it a lot 20 years ago, and then sporadically until July, and then road a decent
amount until buying the Trek 2000 in August. I'm not sure that fits your parameters, but I'll look
at the fork.

Thanks,

Dan

--
--------------
Dan Griswold Carrollton, TX
--------------

Sheldon Brown <captbike@sheldonbrown.com> wrote:

: Dan Griswold wrote:

: > Besides the wheels, Cottered cranks are real crappy.

: Cottered cranks were the norm for all high quality bikes for most of a century. They are a pain to
: service, and add a bit of weight, but they no less reliable than cotterless cranks.

: See: http://sheldonbrown.com/cotters

Actually Sheldon, I wrote that. In 1978 My wife and I bought a Mixte Frame Peugeot U08 with cottered
cranks and a U09 with a Cotterless crank.

The cotter type crank was junk and could not take many miles before it needed repairs. It was
terrible. On the other hand the U09 lasted many years until I wore it out.

I would never buy a bike with a cottered crank. Unless I plan on changing it out.

--------------------------------
Bob Masse' kh6zv9@PE.NET
--------------------------------