I purchase a new Santana Tandem road bike less than two years ago and have hac a lot of problems
with it. My wife and I are in our early 60's and combine weight of less than 300 lbs. I have had the
bike back to the dealer several times replacing the stoker crank bearing, rebuilding the head set
five times,(last time they put in a Cris King head set), and failed the rear wheel rim twice. A stip
on the rim that hold the tire bead beals out and it is not caused from hitting chuck holes. I have
the 48 spoke wheel with Continental's 700X28 Gatorsikin tires that I keep at 120 psi. I had the
first wheel go out after a year and a half and the exact failure occurred a month later on the
replacement rim from Santana. Wheelsmith builds the wheel with a FIR rim. I am afraid if this
happened on the front wheel that the strip could get caught in the brake pad and lock up the front
wheel causing an accident. I am just wondering if anyone esle have had a similar problem?

"Bill Smith" <bsmith02@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:3ec97c55.24320339@news.mi.comcast.giganews.com...
> I purchase a new Santana Tandem road bike less than two years ago and have hac a lot of problems
> with it. My wife and I are in our early 60's and combine weight of less than 300 lbs. I have had
> the bike back to the dealer several times replacing the stoker crank bearing, rebuilding the head
> set five times,(last time they put in a Cris King head set), and failed the rear wheel rim twice.
> A stip on the rim that hold the tire bead beals out and it is not caused from hitting chuck holes.
> I have the 48 spoke wheel with Continental's 700X28 Gatorsikin tires that I keep at 120 psi. I had
> the first wheel go out after a year and a half and the exact failure occurred a month later on the
> replacement rim from Santana. Wheelsmith builds the wheel with a FIR rim. I am afraid if this
> happened on the front wheel that the strip could get caught in the brake pad and lock up the front
> wheel causing an accident. I am just wondering if anyone esle have had a similar problem?

You may want to consider a different wheel builder and a different rim. Mavic T520s are available in
40 hole. At one time they were also available in 48 hole. See URL:
http://www.mavic.com/servlet/srt/mav...itsid=51&lg=uk We are using the Velocity
Dyads in 48H on our tandem. Our team weight is 100+ lbs greater than yours. They are working
perfectly. We have 6,000+ miles on them. We are using the Panaracer tandem tires @ 110 PSI. Check
URL: http://www.velocityusa.com/catalog/v...rims_road.html You will need to scroll down to see
the Dyad rim. They have no eyelets, but they have a very strong rim interface. You might also check
URL: http://www-acs.ucsd.edu/home-pages/wade/tandem.html for more information.

A great tandem wheel builder is Peter White. See URL:
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/Tandemparts.asp

You might also talk with Steve at Santana. I have found him responsive and very experienced.

David Ornee, Western Springs, IL

I never transport my bike on the outside of the vehicle and very seldom ride in the rain. I am very
concerned with the rim failure because that is a safety item. The head sets are more of a nuisance.
I sent a email to Wheelsmith and they never replied. I do not know how to get in touch with the rim
supplier FIR. If anyone knows how to get in touch with them and where they are located I would
appreciate it.

Bill Smith

On Tue, 20 May 2003 01:05:24 GMT, bsmith02@comcast.net (Bill Smith) wrote:

>I purchase a new Santana Tandem road bike less than two years ago and have hac a lot of problems
>with it. My wife and I are in our early 60's and combine weight of less than 300 lbs. I have had
>the bike back to the dealer several times replacing the stoker crank bearing, rebuilding the head
>set five times,(last time they put in a Cris King head set), and failed the rear wheel rim twice. A
>stip on the rim that hold the tire bead beals out and it is not caused from hitting chuck holes. I
>have the 48 spoke wheel with Continental's 700X28 Gatorsikin tires that I keep at 120 psi. I had
>the first wheel go out after a year and a half and the exact failure occurred a month later on the
>replacement rim from Santana. Wheelsmith builds the wheel with a FIR rim. I am afraid if this
>happened on the front wheel that the strip could get caught in the brake pad and lock up the front
>wheel causing an accident. I am just wondering if anyone esle have had a similar problem?

"David Ornee" <dornee@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:<4Npya.19664$%_3.8528565@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>...
> "Bill Smith" <bsmith02@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:3ec97c55.24320339@news.mi.comcast.giganews.com...
> > I purchase a new Santana Tandem road bike less than two years ago and have hac a lot of problems
> > with it. ...I have had the bike back to the dealer several times replacing the stoker crank
> > bearing, rebuilding the head set five times,(last time they put in a Cris King head set), and
> > failed the rear wheel rim twice. A stip on the rim that hold the tire bead beals out and it is
> > not caused from hitting chuck holes. I have the 48 spoke wheel with Continental's 700X28
> > Gatorsikin tires that I keep at 120 psi. I had the first wheel go out after a year and a half
> > and the exact failure occurred a month later on the replacement rim from Santana. Wheelsmith
> > builds the wheel with a FIR rim. I am afraid if this happened on the front wheel that the strip
> > could get caught in the brake pad and lock up the front wheel causing an accident. I am just
> > wondering if anyone esle have had a similar problem?
> ... A great tandem wheel builder is Peter White. See URL:
> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/Tandemparts.asp
>
> You might also talk with Steve at Santana. I have found him responsive and very experienced.
>
> David Ornee, Western Springs, IL

I would be concerned about the competence of a bike shop that has replaced a headset five times
unless you do some substantial mileage, or have your bike on the outside of a car in the rain at
highway speeds frequently. The rim failures are puzzling as well and if it is the aluminum rim
itself separating this sounds like a manufacturing defect unless you had done enough wet weather
braking or had brake shoes filled with aluminum shavings that you ground away the rim sidewall-have
you noticed if your brake shoes have bits of aluminum embeded in them? Note that Kool Stop salmon
colored brake shoes are helpful to minimize rim wear from braking. See
http://www.chainreactionbicycles.com/brakeshoes.htm for some discussion and illustrations on that.

Ditto re: Peter White and calling Santana.

Puzzled,

Bill Putnam

On Mon, 19 May 2003 21:05:24 -0400, Bill Smith wrote:

> I purchase a new Santana Tandem road bike less than two years ago and have hac a lot of problems
> with it. My wife and I are in our early 60's and combine weight of less than 300 lbs. I have had
> the bike back to the dealer several times replacing the stoker crank bearing, rebuilding the head
> set five times,

You need to call Santana. That kind of service life is ridiculous. Either there's something
structurally wrong or the parts are not being installed correctly.

(last time they put in a Cris King head set), and
> failed the rear wheel rim twice. A stip on the rim that hold the tire bead beals out and it is not
> caused from hitting chuck holes. I have the 48 spoke wheel with Continental's 700X28 Gatorsikin
> tires that I keep at 120 psi. I had the first wheel go out after a year and a half and the exact
> failure occurred a month later on the replacement rim from Santana. Wheelsmith builds the wheel
> with a FIR rim. I am afraid if this happened on the front wheel that the strip could get caught in
> the brake pad and lock up the front wheel causing an accident. I am just wondering if anyone esle
> have had a similar problem?

I've never heard of anybody having a service history like yours before.

> On Tue, 20 May 2003 01:05:24 GMT, bsmith02@comcast.net (Bill Smith) wrote:
>
> >I purchase a new Santana Tandem road bike less than two years ago and have hac a lot of problems
> >with it. My wife and I are in our early 60's and combine weight of less than 300 lbs. I have had
> >the bike back to the dealer several times replacing the stoker crank bearing, rebuilding the head
> >set five times,(last time they put in a Cris King head set), and failed the rear wheel rim twice.
> >A stip on the rim that hold the tire bead beals out and it is not caused from hitting chuck
> >holes. I have the 48 spoke wheel with Continental's 700X28 Gatorsikin tires that I keep at 120
> >psi. I had the first wheel go out after a year and a half and the exact failure occurred a month
> >later on the replacement rim from Santana. Wheelsmith builds the wheel with a FIR rim. I am
> >afraid if this happened on the front wheel that the strip could get caught in the brake pad and
> >lock up the front wheel causing an accident. I am just wondering if anyone esle have had a
> >similar problem?
>
"Bill Smith" <bsmith02@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:3eca7e1b.21447887@news.mi.comcast.giganews.com...
> I never transport my bike on the outside of the vehicle and very seldom ride in the rain. I am
> very concerned with the rim failure because that is a safety item. The head sets are more of a
> nuisance. I sent a email to Wheelsmith and they never replied. I do not know how to get in touch
> with the rim supplier FIR. If anyone knows how to get in touch with them and where they are
> located I would appreciate it.

Santana had a known issue with a bad batch of FIR rims two or three years ago. Your dealer probabaly
should have replaced it gratis _ before_ it cracked. I rebuilt four bikes with T519 rims that month
after the first crack.

Wheelsmith is a spoke manufacturer and a wheel building operation. They do not manufacture rims.

I agree the headset issue smells of incompetent installation more than anthing else. Hell, even a
$9.95 headset should go several years of normal riidng if milled square, lubricated and properly
adjusted. (I often wonder about $100-plus headsets as the very cheapest ones commonly outlast the
rest of the bike. . .)

I am a Santana dealer of long standing. If any of those problems were typical I would be seeing
tandems being returned through the front window. My customers are not at all understanding of
new-vehicle problems in that price range. They expect reliability and they get it.

You need to have a calm, thorough review with the owner of the shop including a written list of
things which need to be addressed and the date you'll be back to pick up your corrected bike.
Nothing above is Santana specific except maybe the FIR rim. It is all workmanship or lack thereof.
--
Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971