new chainwheels: what needs replacement?

I need new chainwheels and want to know how much stuff on the bike needs replacement to
accomplish that.

I just put on a new chain. Because the chainwheel is worn it skips consistently under load going up
a hill. The old chain did some of that, the new one seems worse. The bike shop that sold me the
chain predicted the possibility. They took one look at the chainwheels and said they were "wasted,"
but suggested I take a stab at a new chain since "maybe you'll get away with it." They were right, I
didn't. I'm definitely going to have to replace the chainwheels.

For some reason the bike shop guy said if it came to that, it would be easier/better (for the bike?
for him?) to replace (help me with the vocabulary here) the whole crankset, maybe bottom bracket if
I understood right. Well, the skipping problem is all about the teeth, so strictly the only thing
that needs to change is the chainwheel. But the bike is old and maybe the guy was thinking identical
chainwheels to mine are out of manufacture and unavailable or something. Otherwise I can't think of
why he wants to replace other stuff. There are photos of the bike with chainwheel close-ups at
http://homepage.smc.edu/morgan_david/bike/.

Would you concur that the bike shop guy's correct, that I should replace everything on the bike down
there "below the waist," instead of chainwheels only?? Thanks for any wisdom.

-----------------

Info about the bike:

the chainwheels read "Sakae" and have 52 and 40 teeth the cranks read "SR Apex" the right crank,
at the end of the axle, has a metal cap that reads "Univega cotterless" the bike is a decent
quality Univega (Japanese) purchased in 1979 for $450 the chainwheels are (and the just-replaced
chain was) original

August 2002 I had a different bike shop work on the bike. I asked them to decide what to do in their
professional judgement to "make it good" after 20 years of use. Among other things they opened up
the bottom bracket to repack the bearings with grease. They didn't mention any problem with it.They
didn't recommend replacement of the chain or mention the chainwheels. They did replace the
freewheel. Although I have ridden with the old chain and new freewheel for a year, it's not enough
riding for the chain to have spoiled the freewheel and I don't think I need another one (nor does
the local bike shop).

In article <d9gugv8s2tt50r7vhcgooo5jvpace5mqjv@4ax.com>, dmorgan1@pacbell.net wrote:

> For some reason the bike shop guy said if it came to that, it would be easier/better (for the
> bike? for him?) to replace (help me with the vocabulary here) the whole crankset, maybe bottom
> bracket if I understood right. Well, the skipping problem is all about the teeth, so strictly the
> only thing that needs to change is the chainwheel. But the bike is old and maybe the guy was
> thinking identical chainwheels to mine are out of manufacture and unavailable or something.
> Otherwise I can't think of why he wants to replace other stuff. There are photos of the bike with
> chainwheel close-ups at http://homepage.smc.edu/morgan_david/bike/.
>
> Would you concur that the bike shop guy's correct, that I should replace everything on the bike
> down there "below the waist," instead of chainwheels only?? Thanks for any wisdom.
>
>
I think the reason he said that is that SR Apex cranks have a bolt circle diameter (BCD) of 118 --
defunct. You just can't find any new chainwheels to fit that BCD. You *can*, however, find
chainwheels on the net to fit this BCD -try FirstFlightBikes -- i think they have some. (I know,
because I looked for some for my SR Apex cranks). Bob Brown Bicycles also has some -- these are not
listed, but you can email the proprietor. (I bought one from him) SR Apex cranks are actually very
pretty. If your bottom bracket's ok, then I would just get new chainwheels from the sources above
and install them yourself. (40-50 dollars, total)

best,

Art Strum

<dmorgan1@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:d9gugv8s2tt50r7vhcgooo5jvpace5mqjv@4ax.com...
>
> I need new chainwheels and want to know how much stuff on the bike needs replacement to
> accomplish that.
>
> I just put on a new chain. Because the chainwheel is worn it skips consistently under load going
> up a hill. The old chain did some of that, the new one seems worse. The bike shop that sold me the
> chain predicted the possibility. They took one look at the chainwheels and said they were
> "wasted," but suggested I take a stab at a new chain since "maybe you'll get away with it." They
> were right, I didn't. I'm definitely going to have to replace the chainwheels.
>
> For some reason the bike shop guy said if it came to that, it would be easier/better (for the
> bike? for him?) to replace (help me with the vocabulary here) the whole crankset, maybe bottom
> bracket if I understood right. Well, the skipping problem is all about the teeth, so strictly the
> only thing that needs to change is the chainwheel. But the bike is old and maybe the guy was
> thinking identical chainwheels to mine are out of manufacture and unavailable or something.
> Otherwise I can't think of why he wants to replace other stuff. There are photos of the bike with
> chainwheel close-ups at http://homepage.smc.edu/morgan_david/bike/.
>
> Would you concur that the bike shop guy's correct, that I should replace everything on the bike
> down there "below the waist," instead of chainwheels only?? Thanks for any wisdom.
>
> -----------------
>
> Info about the bike:
>
> the chainwheels read "Sakae" and have 52 and 40 teeth the cranks read "SR Apex" the right crank,
> at the end of the axle, has a metal cap that reads "Univega cotterless" the bike is a decent
> quality Univega (Japanese) purchased in 1979 for $450 the chainwheels are (and the just-replaced
> chain was) original
>
> August 2002 I had a different bike shop work on the bike. I asked them to decide what to do in
> their professional judgement to "make it good" after 20 years of use. Among other things they
> opened up the bottom bracket to repack the bearings with grease. They didn't mention any problem
> with it.They didn't recommend replacement of the chain or mention the chainwheels. They did
> replace the freewheel. Although I have ridden with the old chain and new freewheel for a year,
> it's not enough riding for the chain to have spoiled the freewheel and I don't think I need
> another one (nor does the local bike shop).

The SR Apex rings are available: http://www.yellowjersey.org/esoteric.html and elsewhere.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:58:56 +0000, dmorgan wrote:

> For some reason the bike shop guy said if it came to that, it would be easier/better (for the
> bike? for him?) to replace (help me with the vocabulary here) the whole crankset, maybe bottom
> bracket if I understood right.

Horse****. Unless your current crankset is so cheap that the chainrings are not removable, he is
just after a sale. OTOH, if the chainrings are not removable, then he is, unfortunately for you,
right. Most likely, though, he just doesn't have chainrings your size in stock.

> he wants to replace other stuff. There are photos of the bike with chainwheel close-ups at
> http://homepage.smc.edu/morgan_david/bike/.

Well, those are clearly replacable chainrings. I am not sure of the size, or the brand of the
cranks, though. Go to http:/;/www.sheldonbrown.com and read about chainrings and cranks. He tells
you how to determine the size of the "bolt ring circle" which is the critical measurement.

> the chainwheels read "Sakae" and have 52 and 40 teeth the cranks read "SR Apex" the right crank,
> at the end of the axle, has a metal cap that reads "Univega cotterless"

OK, that is a standard brand. If that is a 52/40, then the bolt circle might be 110mm; certainly no
bigger than 130mm. Either of those is easy to find.

> the bike is a decent quality Univega (Japanese) purchased in 1979 for $450 the chainwheels are
> (and the just-replaced chain was) original

As far as the chain goes, it's the miles, not the years. But this bike has seen some use. I'd
imagine that chain was on there far too long, which of course means that the chainrings, and the
freewheel, need to be replaced, which of course you know.
>
> They didn't recommend replacement of the chain

If it was used in those 20 years as much as it looks like, I can't imagine not replacing the chain.

> or mention the chainwheels. They did replace the freewheel.

But not the chain? That is wrong.

> Although I have ridden with the old chain and new freewheel for a year, it's not enough riding for
>the chain to have spoiled the freewheel and I don't think I need another one (nor does the local
>bike shop).

A year? I would assume it would indeed ruin the new freewheel -- but it depends on how many miles
you put on in that year.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. _`\(,_ | That is easy. All
you have to do is tell them they are being (_)/ (_) | attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for
lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any <country. --
Hermann Goering

dmorgan1@pacbell.net wrote in message news:<d9gugv8s2tt50r7vhcgooo5jvpace5mqjv@4ax.com>...
> I need new chainwheels and want to know how much stuff on the bike needs replacement to
> accomplish that.
Hi, your dealer may have recommended going with a new crankset because of cost. It looks like two
chainrings would cost you somewhere between $40-60. You can get a new Shimano Sora crankset for
about $55 list. May as well replace the bottom bracket, at appr $25, then everything is new and
should be problem free. Cambria has a Shimano 105 5500 crankset on sale for $55, see link, scroll
down main page: http://cambriabike.com/road/ I wish I had known about this sale, before I went with
the Sora crankset. Although I am quite happy with the Sora. It replaced an old cottered crankset, it
said - A Duprat Universal on the crank arm. So, unless having the appearance of the original is
important to you, a new crankset may be the better way to go. Life is Good! Jeff

>
> I just put on a new chain. Because the chainwheel is worn it skips consistently under load going
> up a hill. The old chain did some of that, the new one seems worse. The bike shop that sold me the
> chain predicted the possibility. They took one look at the chainwheels and said they were
> "wasted," but suggested I take a stab at a new chain since "maybe you'll get away with it." They
> were right, I didn't. I'm definitely going to have to replace the chainwheels.
>
> For some reason the bike shop guy said if it came to that, it would be easier/better (for the
> bike? for him?) to replace (help me with the vocabulary here) the whole crankset, maybe bottom
> bracket if I understood right. Well, the skipping problem is all about the teeth, so strictly the
> only thing that needs to change is the chainwheel. But the bike is old and maybe the guy was
> thinking identical chainwheels to mine are out of manufacture and unavailable or something.
> Otherwise I can't think of why he wants to replace other stuff. There are photos of the bike with
> chainwheel close-ups at http://homepage.smc.edu/morgan_david/bike/.
>
> Would you concur that the bike shop guy's correct, that I should replace everything on the bike
> down there "below the waist," instead of chainwheels only?? Thanks for any wisdom.
>
> -----------------
>
> Info about the bike:
>
> the chainwheels read "Sakae" and have 52 and 40 teeth the cranks read "SR Apex" the right crank,
> at the end of the axle, has a metal cap that reads "Univega cotterless" the bike is a decent
> quality Univega (Japanese) purchased in 1979 for $450 the chainwheels are (and the just-replaced
> chain was) original
>
> August 2002 I had a different bike shop work on the bike. I asked them to decide what to do in
> their professional judgement to "make it good" after 20 years of use. Among other things they
> opened up the bottom bracket to repack the bearings with grease. They didn't mention any problem
> with it.They didn't recommend replacement of the chain or mention the chainwheels. They did
> replace the freewheel. Although I have ridden with the old chain and new freewheel for a year,
> it's not enough riding for the chain to have spoiled the freewheel and I don't think I need
> another one (nor does the local bike shop).

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:58:56 GMT, dmorgan1@pacbell.net may have said:

>
>I need new chainwheels and want to know how much stuff on the bike needs replacement to
>accomplish that.

[mondosnip]

If you're in a hurry, and the budget is extra-tight, I'd go with the chainwheels (alone) mentioned
in another of the responses. If it's just one of them that's skipping, you could replace them singly
if the budget's that tight, but you'll probably save on freight if you get both at once, and why do
the job twice? If you aren't in a hurry, or if the budget's not *that* tight, then I'd shop around
for a more recent complete crankset. These often pop up on eBay either as takeoffs from new bikes or
"new old stock" closeouts for about the same as (and frequently less than) the price of the ones
available for an SR Apex. Low-mileage used parts can sometimes be had cheap on eBay, but you can get
burned on those if the seller isn't knowledgable or scrupulous. Many "used up" parts aren't readily
identifiable as such just from the photos that will fit in an eBay listing, and some are being sold
by people who either don't know that the part needs to be junked, or don't care.

---
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.

Yes, I have a killfile. If I don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.

<dmorgan1@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:d9gugv8s2tt50r7vhcgooo5jvpace5mqjv@4ax.com...
>
> I need new chainwheels and want to know how much stuff on the bike needs replacement to
> accomplish that.
>
> Would you concur that the bike shop guy's correct, that I should replace everything on the bike
> down there "below the waist," instead of chainwheels only?? Thanks for any wisdom.
>
> the chainwheels read "Sakae" and have 52 and 40 teeth the cranks read "SR Apex" the right crank,
> at the end of the axle, has a metal cap that reads "Univega cotterless" the bike is a decent
> quality Univega (Japanese) purchased in 1979 for $450 the chainwheels are (and the just-replaced
> chain was) original

Often, replacement chainrings are as expensive as a new crank (with chainrings). The real question
is whether you want to spend $50+ on a bike that's probably worth about that. Unfortunately,
replacing worn out stuff on old, mid-range, bikes is often a losing proposition.

dmorgan1@pacbell.net wrote:
>
. Well, the skipping problem is all about the teeth,
> so strictly the only thing that needs to change is the chainwheel. But the bike is old and maybe
> the guy was thinking identical chainwheels to mine are out of manufacture and unavailable or
> something. Otherwise I can't think of why he wants to replace other stuff. There are photos of the
> bike with chainwheel close-ups at http://homepage.smc.edu/morgan_david/bike/.

You could try to flip the chainwheel that skips or both chainwheels. With friction shifting this
should be possible.

I recently flipped the middle chainwheel on my 1985 tourer and it works very well.

Peter P

.

OK I've learned a lot here since yesterday. I'm about ready to buy replacement chanrings unless
there's other ideas.

I've learned:

1) Chainring "Plan A" is feasible My Sakae SR 118mm BCD chainrings, though out of manufacture, can
be obtained. And I found the replacement process is quite doable (I experimentally took the rings
off an put them back on.)

2) There's also a whole-new-crankset-as-long-as-you're-at-it "Plan B"

3) The parts costs are about the same, though Plan B costs some labor (because I wouldn't try to
replace the crankset myself).

So, if I have zero dissatisfaction with the cranks or bottom bracket, the rational option is
Plan A. Plan B gets me some things that are additional, but that I'm not seeking or (I think)
needing. So, why??

Can you can tell me any "unperceived needs" of mine a new whole crankset would fulfill? If something
didn't happen in the last 20 years to make modern cranksets qualitatively beyond my limited
experience and imagination, there's no reason for me to get cranks to fix teeth. Did anything like
that happen? I'm poised to buy the chainrings unless I identify something else I'd get from Plan B
besides non-skip teeth.

By the way this newsgroup is rich with knowledge and good suggestions! Thanks.

<dmorgan1@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:04a1hvgu6afmpk7u7j30q0d5qlr311knt9@4ax.com...
>
> OK I've learned a lot here since yesterday. I'm about ready to buy replacement chanrings unless
> there's other ideas.
>
> I've learned:
>
> 1) Chainring "Plan A" is feasible My Sakae SR 118mm BCD chainrings, though out of manufacture, can
> be obtained. And I found the replacement process is quite doable (I experimentally took the
> rings off an put them back on.)
>
> 2) There's also a whole-new-crankset-as-long-as-you're-at-it "Plan B"
>
> 3) The parts costs are about the same, though Plan B costs some labor (because I wouldn't try to
> replace the crankset myself).
>
> So, if I have zero dissatisfaction with the cranks or bottom bracket, the rational option is Plan
> A. Plan B gets me some things that are additional, but that I'm not seeking or (I think) needing.
> So, why??
>
> Can you can tell me any "unperceived needs" of mine a new whole crankset would fulfill? If
> something didn't happen in the last 20 years to make modern cranksets qualitatively beyond my
> limited experience and imagination, there's no reason for me to get cranks to fix teeth. Did
> anything like that happen? I'm poised to buy the chainrings unless I identify something else I'd
> get from Plan B besides non-skip teeth.
>
> By the way this newsgroup is rich with knowledge and good suggestions! Thanks.

There's plan A.5 too. You could replace the rings with diferent sized Apex rings for lower ( uh,
technically you _could_ swap to higher) gearing.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 00:36:23 +0000, dmorgan wrote:

> Can you can tell me any "unperceived needs" of mine a new whole crankset would fulfill? If
> something didn't happen in the last 20 years to make modern cranksets qualitatively beyond my
> limited experience and imagination, there's no reason for me to get cranks to fix teeth. Did
> anything like that happen? I'm poised to buy the chainrings unless I identify something else I'd
> get from Plan B besides non-skip teeth.

Well, on the one hand, certainly the next time you want to replace those chainrings, you are going
to find it harder to get them.

On the other hand, there is a certain esthetic in keeping the bike all original.

On the third hand, if you did get a new crankset you could have more options in terms of gearing, if
that would interest you.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | It is a scientifically proven fact that a mid life crisis can _`\(,_ | only be cured by
something racy and Italian. Bianchis and (_)/ (_) | Colnagos are a lot cheaper than Maserattis
and Ferraris. -- Glenn Davies