Tire rolling resistance; source for data?

Does anyone know if there is a reliable source for information about which tires have the highest
and lowest rolling resistance on a dry, hard surface? Is there a quantified scale that's recognized
for measuring this? I'm assuming, from comments in a couple of threads, that differences exist, but
is personal experience the only guide to the subject?

--
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Here's one rolling resistance test:

graph: http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/imgs/rolres.gif

discussion: http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/rrdiscuss.html

"Werehatrack" <rault00@earthWEEDSlink.net> wrote in message
news:hlfoivs2to4dfptkclssgen9c5dakpnft0@4ax.com...
> Does anyone know if there is a reliable source for information about which tires have the highest
> and lowest rolling resistance on a dry, hard surface? Is there a quantified scale that's
> recognized for measuring this? I'm assuming, from comments in a couple of threads, that
> differences exist, but is personal experience the only guide to the subject?
>
> --
> My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
> don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.

Werehatrack wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if there is a reliable source for information about which tires have the highest
> and lowest rolling resistance on a dry, hard surface? Is there a quantified scale that's
> recognized for measuring this? I'm assuming, from comments in a couple of threads, that
> differences exist, but is personal experience the only guide to the subject?

If you're looking for really high rolling resistance, try Cheng Shin
26x2.25 tires. They last forever, and are the slowest tire by far that I've ever seen. Going to dept
store MTB tires gained me 3mph.
--
Ron Hardin rhhardin@mindspring.com

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

> Here's one rolling resistance test:
>
> graph: http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/imgs/rolres.gif
>
> discussion: http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/rrdiscuss.html

Yes, but I don't know that a single tire listed in that test is in production anymore. It would be
interesting to see an updated test using the same criteria but current models, so we could verify
(or not) claims that newer designs roll easier, and compare differences between standard carbon
black and the various silica treat compounds.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Mike Jacoubowsky <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> Yes, but I don't know that a single tire listed in that test is in production anymore. It would be
> interesting to see an updated test using the same criteria but current models, so we could verify
> (or not) claims that newer designs roll easier, and compare differences between standard carbon
> black and the various silica treat compounds.

There was a similar test in a local cycling mag earlier this year, with road tyres currently on
market. The test setup was similar, ie. a steel drum with the tyre mounted against it with a
constant weight, and then letting the tyre coast down from a constant velocity and measuring the
distance. I don't have the mag myself, but IIRC there were a few problems with the test.

As far as I know the tyres were only tested with a single pressure. I don't remember if they used the same
pressure for tyres of different width. This would obviously be a problem, as narrow tyres can, and
are intended to be used with a higher pressure.

Also, unfortunately different tyres were not tested with the same inner tubes, which makes it a bit
unclear if they were trying to test the properties of the tyres, the tubes or neither. Ideally, if
you had a set of tyres and a set of tubes, you could test each tyre with each tube. Of course this
would be quite labourous, but you would get good data about both the tubes and the tyres by
calculatating averages from the test results of each tyre and tube.

I'll try to find the mag, or perhaps somebody else could post the results here?

-as

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:ii2Xa.330$MP4.30@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
> > Here's one rolling resistance test:
> >
> > graph: http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/imgs/rolres.gif
> >
> > discussion: http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/rrdiscuss.html
>
> Yes, but I don't know that a single tire listed in that test is in production anymore. It would be
> interesting to see an updated test using the same criteria but current models, so we could verify
> (or not) claims that newer designs roll easier, and compare differences between standard carbon
> black and the various silica treat compounds.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
Are you saying that the *new* korean made, all black Avocet Fasgrip SL 700x25 is different than the
older japanese made, black/tan sidewall Avocet Fasgrip 30 700x28 that was tested? Other than
correcting the labeling (the older Fasgrip 30 was inaccurately labeled 700x28, actually measured
between 24-26mm wide), Avocet claims they are the same tire!

Also, isn't the major difference between carbon black and silica treated tires is that carbon black
tires are suppose to handle better in wet conditions? Its my understanding there was no difference
in rolling resistance.

Maybe Jobst can pull out that old drum roller he used and retest *todays* tires.

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:ii2Xa.330$MP4.30@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
| > Here's one rolling resistance test:
| >
| > graph: http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/imgs/rolres.gif
| >
| > discussion: http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/rrdiscuss.html
|
| Yes, but I don't know that a single tire listed in that test is in production anymore. It would be
| interesting to see an updated test using the same criteria but current models, so we could verify
| (or not) claims that newer designs roll easier, and compare differences between standard carbon
| black and the various silica treat compounds.
|
| --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
|
|

Don't know how reliable the source is, but here is another link to some rolling resistance values:
http://www.airfreetires.com/TireData...Resistance.asp

Jean

"Werehatrack" <rault00@earthWEEDSlink.net> wrote in message
news:5a1pivk9tfkihao4hno7r10go727ivfk9d@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 01:17:34 GMT, Ron Hardin <rhhardin@mindspring.com> may have said:
>
> >If you're looking for really high rolling resistance, try Cheng Shin
> >26x2.25 tires. They last forever, and are the slowest tire by far that I've ever seen. Going to
> > dept store MTB tires gained me 3mph.
>
> Considering the rep that Cheng Shin has in the farm equipment and small specialty market, I think
> I can understand why.

I think they make scooter, wheelbarrow, dolly, and some motorcycle tires.

Imagine a high-performance racing wheelbarrow tire.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <i@i.com> wrote in message
news:OakXa.13077$qg3.735530@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> I think they make scooter, wheelbarrow, dolly, and some motorcycle tires.
>
> Imagine a high-performance racing wheelbarrow tire.
>
> --
> Phil, Squid-in-Training
>

Cheng Shin is making high performance motorcycle tires these days, marketed under the Maxxis brand.
Apparently, in back to back testing by magazine guys, they actually are considered pretty decent
tires. They may not be knocking off Dunlop anytime soon, but they're not laughable apparently.

Cheers,

Scott..

bfd <bfd853@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Are you saying that the *new* korean made, all black Avocet Fasgrip SL 700x25 is different than
> the older japanese made, black/tan sidewall Avocet Fasgrip 30 700x28 that was tested? Other than
> correcting the labeling (the older Fasgrip 30 was inaccurately labeled 700x28, actually measured
> between 24-26mm wide), Avocet claims they are the same tire!

IIRC, the old Avocet Fasgrip 700 x 28 had 66 tpi; the new 700 x 25 has 127 tpi.

Art Harris

On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 03:12:46 GMT, "Phil, Squid-in-Training" <i@i.com> may have said:

>
>"Werehatrack" <rault00@earthWEEDSlink.net> wrote in message
>news:5a1pivk9tfkihao4hno7r10go727ivfk9d@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 01:17:34 GMT, Ron Hardin <rhhardin@mindspring.com> may have said:
>>
>> >If you're looking for really high rolling resistance, try Cheng Shin
>> >26x2.25 tires. They last forever, and are the slowest tire by far that I've ever seen. Going to
>> > dept store MTB tires gained me 3mph.
>>
>> Considering the rep that Cheng Shin has in the farm equipment and small specialty market, I think
>> I can understand why.
>
>I think they make scooter, wheelbarrow, dolly, and some motorcycle tires.
>
>Imagine a high-performance racing wheelbarrow tire.

Well, there are racing bar stools, so why not a racing wheelbarrow? (This sounds like something that
would be done at the MIT ag school, if they had one.)

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.

Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:

> "Werehatrack" <rault00@earthWEEDSlink.net> wrote in message
> news:5a1pivk9tfkihao4hno7r10go727ivfk9d@4ax.com...
>
>>On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 01:17:34 GMT, Ron Hardin <rhhardin@mindspring.com> may have said:
>>
>>
>>>If you're looking for really high rolling resistance, try Cheng Shin
>>>26x2.25 tires. They last forever, and are the slowest tire by far that I've ever seen. Going to
>>> dept store MTB tires gained me 3mph.
>>
>>Considering the rep that Cheng Shin has in the farm equipment and small specialty market, I think
>>I can understand why.
>
>
> I think they make scooter, wheelbarrow, dolly, and some motorcycle tires.
>
> Imagine a high-performance racing wheelbarrow tire.
>
> --
> Phil, Squid-in-Training
>
>
I used to run 'em on dirt motorcycles -- they were really cheap. Boy was I amazed at much better I
became when I switched to Dunlop (instantly better ).

David