Disappointing (was Recommended high-volume floor-type bicycle pumps?)

Everyone,

When I started this thread asking about floor-type bicycle pumps, I was hoping to get good
consumer-related information so I know what's out there, and which floor-type air pumps are rated
the best by actual comparison with one another (the only way to know the better ones from the worse
ones is by actual comparison between them!)

Considering how ubiquitous floor-type bicycle pumps are, and the importance they are to the bicycle
enthusaist, it surprises me that no recent article in a bicycle magazine (or Consumer Reports as a
matter of fact) has appeared doing an *exhaustive* comparison of floor-type bicycle pumps. In fact,
I find this lack of information outright strange.

Here's are some of the things the comparison would assess:

1) Number of pumps and the force needed to fill up a lower pressure tire (e.g., mountain bike,
automobile), and number of pumps and overall effort to fill a tire up to very high pressure.

2) Overall assessment of durability and reliability (e.g., does it use cheap, flimsy plastic parts,
or high quality parts?)

3) Assessment of ergonomics.

4) Quality, accuracy and precision of built-in pressure gauge.

5) Cost

6) Warranty, parts availability, and repairability.

Considering how inexpensive these pumps are (in the cosmic scheme of things), a bicycle magazine
could certainly do this comparitive study quite easily and inexpensively. In so doing, it will
accelerate the improvement of these air pumps by forcing companies to try to outdo one another to
build a better air pump.

Now, with what little information I could find, the bicycle pump that seems to be the "current
reference standard" for floor-type air pumps is the Blackburn TP-5:

http://www.blackburndesign.com/WEBREADY/03teampump.html

It is a clever design in that it has two settings: very high volume for low pressure filling (such
as automobile and mountain bike tires), and a low volume, high pressure setting. Thus, when filling
up a tire, one can start out at high volume and put a lot of air in to start out with, and then once
the pressure builds up where pumping gets difficult, one switches to the high pressure setting -- it
fills up much more slowly, but it takes a lot less force to achieve very high pressures. Quite
clever, actually.

Comments? Criticisms?

Jon Noring

"Jon Noring" wrote:
> it surprises me that no recent article in a bicycle magazine (or Consumer Reports as a matter of
> fact) has appeared doing an *exhaustive* comparison of floor-type bicycle pumps.

Have you seen Bicycling Magazine lately? I wouldn't make any purchases based on their reviews.
Consumer Reports tries to do a good job, but they tend to put emphasis on the wrong things.

> Here's are some of the things the comparison would assess:
>
> 1) Number of pumps and the force needed to fill up a lower pressure tire (e.g., mountain bike,
> automobile), and number of pumps and overall effort to fill a tire up to very high pressure.

I think too much emphasis is placed on this. For me, 99% of pump use is topping off pressure on my
road bikes. It really doesn't matter if it takes three or five strokes. The work is the same in
either case.

> 2) Overall assessment of durability and reliability (e.g., does it use cheap, flimsy plastic
> parts, or high quality parts?)
>
> 3) Assessment of ergonomics.
>
> 4) Quality, accuracy and precision of built-in pressure gauge.
>
> 5) Cost
>
> 6) Warranty, parts availability, and repairability.

The attachment to the valve seems to be an issue for a lot of people. For road tires with presta
valves, it's hard to beat Silca's big brass presta chuck.

There are plenty of good comments here on rbt from folks who have used various pumps for extended
periods of time. I'd put more stock in those comments than a magazine article. There are threads on
pumps several times a year. Try a google groups search.

Art Harris

jon@noring.name (Jon Noring) wrote in message
news:<821890f1.0308082009.6f69067d@posting.google.com>...
> Everyone,
>
> When I started this thread asking about floor-type bicycle pumps, I was hoping to get good
> consumer-related information so I know what's out there, and which floor-type air pumps are rated
> the best by actual comparison with one another (the only way to know the better ones from the
> worse ones is by actual comparison between them!)

If you came to usenet looking for scientific product-testing methodology, then you were very, very
mistaken. Deja used to plug usenet as 'real reviews from real consumers' and while I've found real
consumers, reviews--as you'd find in the press--are a miniscule component of usenet traffic.

You're going to get user reports; what comparisons you do get will be from users who used both.

Asking a question and expecting *exactly* the information you're looking for on usenet is a hopeless
task. you *will* however get a lot of interesting information, often tangential to your original
query, that may or may not come in handy later. That's what happens when you ask strangers for their
opinions, based on experience.

-Luigi ask a silly question get amusing answers

jon@noring.name (Jon Noring) wrote in news:821890f1.0308082009.6f69067d@posting.google.com:

> 1) Number of pumps and the force needed to fill up a lower pressure tire (e.g., mountain bike,
> automobile), and number of pumps and overall effort to fill a tire up to very high pressure.

The Performance catalog tries to rate this (at least for the mini-pumps)

> 2) Overall assessment of durability and reliability (e.g., does it use cheap, flimsy plastic
> parts, or high quality parts?)

Availability of replacement parts when they wear out. That would seem to limit you to Zefal, Silca,
Blackburn, and Topeak

I've dealt only with Topeak. I email them with a "concern", and they reply that I should be watching
my mailbox for a new part.

> Now, with what little information I could find, the bicycle pump that seems to be the "current
> reference standard" for floor-type air pumps is the Blackburn TP-5:

There are lots of good pumps out there. I like my Topeak Joe Blow (the original incarnation). I'm
impressed with the Wrench Force (a Trek- SnapOn collaboration) as well. Nobody can argue with the
Blackburn. I think you're sweating the details too much, though.

jon@noring.name schreef ...

> Comments? Criticisms?

Yep! Go to your LBS and try some pumps on the bikes in the shop. That's the quickest & easiest way
to find out which one you like. I'm very happy with my Topeak Joe Blow Pro. But similar ones from
Silca, SKS, Blackburn, Park Tool (and there are others) are not too different from this in
performance.

--
Regards, Marten

In article <821890f1.0308082009.6f69067d@posting.google.com>, jon@noring.name says...

>When I started this thread asking about floor-type bicycle pumps, I was hoping to get good
>consumer-related information so I know what's out there, and which floor-type air pumps are rated
>the best by actual comparison with one another (the only way to know the better ones from the worse
>ones is by actual comparison between them!)
>
>Considering how ubiquitous floor-type bicycle pumps are, and the importance they are to the bicycle
>enthusaist, it surprises me that no recent article in a bicycle magazine (or Consumer Reports as a
>matter of fact) has appeared doing an *exhaustive* comparison of floor-type bicycle pumps. In fact,
>I find this lack of information outright strange.
>
>Here's are some of the things the comparison would assess:
>
>1) Number of pumps and the force needed to fill up a lower pressure tire (e.g., mountain bike,
> automobile), and number of pumps and overall effort to fill a tire up to very high pressure.
>
>2) Overall assessment of durability and reliability (e.g., does it use cheap, flimsy plastic parts,
> or high quality parts?)
>
>3) Assessment of ergonomics.
>
>4) Quality, accuracy and precision of built-in pressure gauge.
>
>5) Cost
>
>6) Warranty, parts availability, and repairability.
>
>Considering how inexpensive these pumps are (in the cosmic scheme of things), a bicycle magazine
>could certainly do this comparitive study quite easily and inexpensively. In so doing, it will
>accelerate the improvement of these air pumps by forcing companies to try to outdo one another to
>build a better air pump.
>
>Now, with what little information I could find, the bicycle pump that seems to be the "current
>reference standard" for floor-type air pumps is the Blackburn TP-5:
>
> http://www.blackburndesign.com/WEBREADY/03teampump.html
>
>It is a clever design in that it has two settings: very high volume for low pressure filling (such
>as automobile and mountain bike tires), and a low volume, high pressure setting. Thus, when filling
>up a tire, one can start out at high volume and put a lot of air in to start out with, and then
>once the pressure builds up where pumping gets difficult, one switches to the high pressure setting
>-- it fills up much more slowly, but it takes a lot less force to achieve very high pressures.
>Quite clever, actually.

In the modern internet world we have all forgotten that there are public libraries that have quite a
bit of information that is not available online. I recall one of the bicycle magazines did a test of
pumps as you describe above. You should be able to find out which magazine at your local library. I
think it was Bicycle Guide or Bicycling. I was a bit surprised because the magazine usually printed
a lot of useless cliche ridden reviews.
--------------
Alex

Why not ask a respected and busy local shop what pump they use in their day-to-day business
(assuming it's not compressed air). I bet you'll find out what works real fast.

I have had a Zefal Husky (now known as SKS Renkompressor) for some 10 years. It is built like a
tank, very little plastic in it, and probably will not need replacement in my lifetime.

Joe

Floor pumps are inexpensive, work well for years, and are used once a week to top up tires. Even
filling a mtb tire from empty is no big deal unless you're doing a bunch of bikes. I'd look for a
pump with a gauge far up the pump and a connector that does both Schrader and Presta without having
to fiddle with internal parts. Aside from that I don't see an issue.

There is an interesting pump from Topeak that is part floor pump part frame/mini pump and can be had
with a gauge. I already have a bunch of mini pumps none of which works well and a floor pump which
does a great job so I haven't really looked at it.

Doug Toronto

x-no-archive:yes

..
> Floor pumps are inexpensive, work well for years, and are used once a week to top up tires. Even
> filling a mtb tire from empty is no big deal unless you're doing a bunch of bikes. I'd look for a
> pump with a gauge far up the pump and a connector that does both Schrader and Presta without
> having to fiddle with internal parts. Aside from that I don't see an issue.
>
> There is an interesting pump from Topeak that is part floor pump part frame/mini pump and can be
> had with a gauge. I already have a bunch of
mini
> pumps none of which works well and a floor pump which does a great job so
I
> haven't really looked at it.
>
> Doug Toronto

In the first case you mentioned, my Serfas floor pump with the gauge up high, metal tubing and
lifetime guarantee, is excellent. In the second, you are talking about the Topeak Road Morph--the
only frame pump I would carry on my bike. By turning it into something resembling a floor pump, you
can actually push downward against the pressure instead of along the direction of the pressure. You
just turn the handle into a T handle and set the pump up like a floor pump. It even comes with an
in-line gauge.

Pat in TX

jon@noring.name (Jon Noring) wrote in message
news:<821890f1.0308082009.6f69067d@posting.google.com>...
> Everyone,
>
> When I started this thread asking about floor-type bicycle pumps, I was hoping to get good
> consumer-related information so I know what's out there, and which floor-type air pumps are rated
> the best by actual comparison with one another (the only way to know the better ones from the
> worse ones is by actual comparison between them!)

Hi, in the PerformanceBike.com catalog they show efficency specs for many of their pumps. The rating
is based on strokes to inflate both a MTB tire and a road tire. An example would be 43/24. That
rating is for the Topeak Joe Blow Sport, which I bought recently. I liked that besides the two sided
head for Presta, and Schraeder, it also has ball/mattress adaptors. I have no basis for comparison,
other than the crappy pumps of my youth, but this one works fine. I have used it both for topping
off tires and for replacing tubes. I got it on sale for around $21, it lists for $34.99 Performance
has a number of pumps on sale, at this time:
http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...18&Sub_ID=4360

Life is Good! Jeff

>
> Considering how ubiquitous floor-type bicycle pumps are, and the importance they are to the
> bicycle enthusaist, it surprises me that no recent article in a bicycle magazine (or Consumer
> Reports as a matter of fact) has appeared doing an *exhaustive* comparison of floor-type bicycle
> pumps. In fact, I find this lack of information outright strange.
>
> Here's are some of the things the comparison would assess:
>
> 1) Number of pumps and the force needed to fill up a lower pressure tire (e.g., mountain bike,
> automobile), and number of pumps and overall effort to fill a tire up to very high pressure.
>
> 2) Overall assessment of durability and reliability (e.g., does it use cheap, flimsy plastic
> parts, or high quality parts?)
>
> 3) Assessment of ergonomics.
>
> 4) Quality, accuracy and precision of built-in pressure gauge.
>
> 5) Cost
>
> 6) Warranty, parts availability, and repairability.
>
> Considering how inexpensive these pumps are (in the cosmic scheme of things), a bicycle magazine
> could certainly do this comparitive study quite easily and inexpensively. In so doing, it will
> accelerate the improvement of these air pumps by forcing companies to try to outdo one another to
> build a better air pump.
>
> Now, with what little information I could find, the bicycle pump that seems to be the "current
> reference standard" for floor-type air pumps is the Blackburn TP-5:
>
> http://www.blackburndesign.com/WEBREADY/03teampump.html
>
> It is a clever design in that it has two settings: very high volume for low pressure filling (such
> as automobile and mountain bike tires), and a low volume, high pressure setting. Thus, when
> filling up a tire, one can start out at high volume and put a lot of air in to start out with, and
> then once the pressure builds up where pumping gets difficult, one switches to the high pressure
> setting -- it fills up much more slowly, but it takes a lot less force to achieve very high
> pressures. Quite clever, actually.
>
> Comments? Criticisms?
>
> Jon Noring

"Jeff Starr" wrote:
> in the PerformanceBike.com catalog they show efficency specs for many of their pumps. The rating
> is based on strokes to inflate both a MTB tire and a road tire. An example would be 43/24.

That's really not an efficency spec. Those that pump more volume per stroke require more force. The
work required will be about the same. It's like the difference between climbing a hill in a low or
high gear. The higher gear requires fewer pedal strokes, but more force.

High volume pumps might be better for MTBs.

Art Harris

"Harris" <n2ah@spam.sprynet.com> wrote in message
news:<jd4Za.9174$_R5.1602187@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>...
> The attachment to the valve seems to be an issue for a lot of people. For road tires with presta
> valves, it's hard to beat Silca's big brass presta chuck.

I know I will get flamed for this, but I have to disagree with you on that one. They work fine when
new but you have to keep replacing them. I get so tired of having to wait for friends who still use
that Silca brass head. They can't get it to stay on and have to have someone hold it on for them or
have to use a Velcro strap to hold it on.

Most of my friends use a Joe Blow pump clone with a thumb lock. It's cheap, works every time, and
you don't have to have a separate pump for your shraeder valves.

I know that the Joe Blow is the Volkswagon of bike pumps but I would rather have a Volkswagon that
runs than a Mercedes that doesn't.

**** Durbin

"**** Durbin" wrote:

> I know I will get flamed for this, but I have to disagree with you on that one. They work fine
> when new but you have to keep replacing them. I get so tired of having to wait for friends who
> still use that Silca brass head. They can't get it to stay on and have to have someone hold it on
> for them or have to use a Velcro strap to hold it on.

Every few years I replace the little rubber gasket inside the chuck. They cost about US$1. I have a
couple tucked away for when the need arises. No big deal.

Art Harris

"Harris" <n2ah@spam.sprynet.com> wrote in message
news:<SGsZa.27548$_R5.7373798@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>...
>>> > That's really not an efficency spec. <<<
Hi, that is Performance's description, not mine. It does give you some idea of what the pump can do,
but you are right, there are a lot of variables, not considered. I did find that spec very
interesting on the mini pumps. I think it is better than nothing. Life is Good! Jeff

> "Jeff Starr" wrote:
> > in the PerformanceBike.com catalog they show efficency specs for many of their pumps. The rating
> > is based on strokes to inflate both a MTB tire and a road tire. An example would be 43/24.
>
> That's really not an efficency spec. Those that pump more volume per stroke require more force.
> The work required will be about the same. It's like the difference between climbing a hill in a
> low or high gear. The higher gear requires fewer pedal strokes, but more force.
>
> High volume pumps might be better for MTBs.
>
> Art Harris

On 10 Aug 2003 08:22:11 -0700, ddurbin@tfn.net (**** Durbin) wrote:
>
>Most of my friends use a Joe Blow pump clone with a thumb lock. It's cheap, works every time, and
>you don't have to have a separate pump for your shraeder valves.

I've had great results with the Joe Blow as well. Replacement heads and hoses are available should
the head wear out. Mine's been going strong for years.

We have a Silica at the shop. The big brass head often falls off certain valves.

Barry