Let's get it straight here, eh? As I understand, tire tread is the rubber that's stuck onto the
casing. All tires have a tread. If you want to refer to different types, you have to modify the
word, such as "smooth tread", or "patterned tread". "Tread" does not mean grooves, knobs, or some
other such pattern.

--
Robin Hubert <cv2572@earthlink.net

Robin Hubert wrote:
> Let's get it straight here, eh? As I understand, tire tread is the rubber that's stuck onto the
> casing. All tires have a tread. If you want to refer to different types, you have to modify the
> word, such as "smooth tread", or "patterned tread". "Tread" does not mean grooves, knobs, or some
> other such pattern.

Webster's Unabridged Dictionary doesn't agree, viz:

Main Entry: 2tread Pronunciation Guide Pronunciation: " Function: noun ... 6 a (1) : the part of the
bottom surface of a shoe including or excluding the heel that touches level ground (2) : the part of
a wheel that bears on a road or rail; especially : the thickened face of an automobile tire (3) :
CATERPILLAR TREAD b : the design (as a raised or inset pattern of corrugations) on a tread <a
recognizable hobnail tread

Sheldon "Not To Mention 'Q-Factor'" Brown +----------------------------------------------+
| And you are right, and I am right | and everything is quite correct | --W.S. Gilbert |
+----------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

"Robin Hubert" <cv2572@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:4BK4b.14652$EW1.9889@newsread1.....earthlink.net...
> Let's get it straight here, eh? As I understand, tire tread is the rubber that's stuck onto the
> casing. All tires have a tread. If you want to refer to different types, you have to modify the
> word, such as "smooth tread", or "patterned tread". "Tread" does not mean grooves, knobs, or some
> other such pattern.

From Merriam-Webster, it can mean either:

3 a : the part of a shoe or boot sole that touches the ground; also : the pattern on the bottom of a
sole b (1) : the part of a wheel or tire that makes contact with a road or rail (2) : the pattern of
ridges or grooves made or cut in the face of a tire

"Sheldon Brown" <CaptBike@sheldonbrown.com> wrote in message
news:3F539281.7070109@sheldonbrown.com...
> Robin Hubert wrote:
> > Let's get it straight here, eh? As I understand, tire tread is the
rubber
> > that's stuck onto the casing. All tires have a tread. If you want to
refer
> > to different types, you have to modify the word, such as "smooth tread",
or
> > "patterned tread". "Tread" does not mean grooves, knobs, or some other
such
> > pattern.
>
> Webster's Unabridged Dictionary doesn't agree, viz:
>
> Main Entry: 2tread Pronunciation Guide Pronunciation: " Function: noun ... 6 a (1) : the part of
> the bottom surface of a shoe including or excluding the heel that touches level ground (2) : the
> part of a wheel that bears on a road or rail; especially : the thickened face of an automobile
> tire (3) : CATERPILLAR TREAD b : the design (as a raised or inset pattern of corrugations) on a
> tread <a recognizable hobnail tread

Seems to me that's what Robin said. All tires have (2), the part that "bears on the ground." If you
want to describe it further you need a modifier, as
in (3).

RichC

"Sheldon Brown" <CaptBike@sheldonbrown.com> wrote in message
news:3F539281.7070109@sheldonbrown.com...
> Robin Hubert wrote:
> > Let's get it straight here, eh? As I understand, tire tread is the
rubber
> > that's stuck onto the casing. All tires have a tread. If you want to
refer
> > to different types, you have to modify the word, such as "smooth tread",
or
> > "patterned tread". "Tread" does not mean grooves, knobs, or some other
such
> > pattern.
>
> Webster's Unabridged Dictionary doesn't agree, viz:
>
> Main Entry: 2tread Pronunciation Guide Pronunciation: " Function: noun ... 6 a (1) : the part of
> the bottom surface of a shoe including or excluding the heel that touches level ground (2) : the
> part of a wheel that bears on a road or rail; especially : the thickened face of an automobile
> tire (3) : CATERPILLAR TREAD b : the design (as a raised or inset pattern of corrugations) on a
> tread <a recognizable hobnail tread

The tread bit's ok. It's the tire bit that's nonsensical.

From www.dictionary.co.uk:

Tire \Tire\, v. t. To exhaust the strength of, as by toil or labor; to exhaust the patience of; to
wear out (one's interest, attention, or the like); to weary; to fatigue; to jade.

Now if one substitutes the correct spelling, of "tyre" it all makes much more sense.

Regards,

Suzy

PS: What sort of country is founded on the back of some guys chucking perfectly good tea in
a harbour?

"Suzy Jackson" <suzyj@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:JGO4b.77157$bo1.27716@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "Sheldon Brown" <CaptBike@sheldonbrown.com> wrote in message
> news:3F539281.7070109@sheldonbrown.com...
> > Robin Hubert wrote:
> > > Let's get it straight here, eh? As I understand, tire tread is the
> rubber
> > > that's stuck onto the casing. All tires have a tread. If you want to
> refer
> > > to different types, you have to modify the word, such as "smooth
tread",
> or
> > > "patterned tread". "Tread" does not mean grooves, knobs, or some
other
> such
> > > pattern.
> >
> > Webster's Unabridged Dictionary doesn't agree, viz:
> >
> > Main Entry: 2tread Pronunciation Guide Pronunciation: " Function: noun ... 6 a (1) : the part of
> > the bottom surface of a shoe including or excluding the heel that touches level ground (2) : the
> > part of a wheel that bears on a road or rail; especially : the thickened face of an automobile
> > tire (3) : CATERPILLAR TREAD b : the design (as a raised or inset pattern of corrugations) on a
> > tread <a recognizable hobnail tread
>
> The tread bit's ok. It's the tire bit that's nonsensical.
>
> From www.dictionary.co.uk:
>
> Tire \Tire\, v. t. To exhaust the strength of, as by toil or labor; to exhaust the patience of; to
> wear out (one's interest, attention, or the like); to weary; to fatigue; to jade.
>
> Now if one substitutes the correct spelling, of "tyre" it all makes much more sense.
>
> Regards,
>
> Suzy
>
> PS: What sort of country is founded on the back of some guys chucking perfectly good tea in a
> harbour?
>

Aiyeeee! Can of big-ass mo-fo' worms.

What was Australia founded on?

Oh yeah, how's the Queen Mother?

--
Robin Hubert <cv2572@earthlink.net

I followed up on the can o' worms thing and came up with this:

http://thegreencommunity.org/giant_worms.html

You should be proud! :-)

--
Robin Hubert <cv2572@earthlink.net>

"Suzy Jackson" <suzyj@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:JGO4b.77157$bo1.27716@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "Sheldon Brown" <CaptBike@sheldonbrown.com> wrote in message
> news:3F539281.7070109@sheldonbrown.com...
> > Robin Hubert wrote:
> > > Let's get it straight here, eh? As I understand, tire tread is the
> rubber
> > > that's stuck onto the casing. All tires have a tread. If you want to
> refer
> > > to different types, you have to modify the word, such as "smooth
tread",
> or
> > > "patterned tread". "Tread" does not mean grooves, knobs, or some
other
> such
> > > pattern.
> >
> > Webster's Unabridged Dictionary doesn't agree, viz:
> >
> > Main Entry: 2tread Pronunciation Guide Pronunciation: " Function: noun ... 6 a (1) : the part of
> > the bottom surface of a shoe including or excluding the heel that touches level ground (2) : the
> > part of a wheel that bears on a road or rail; especially : the thickened face of an automobile
> > tire (3) : CATERPILLAR TREAD b : the design (as a raised or inset pattern of corrugations) on a
> > tread <a recognizable hobnail tread
>
> The tread bit's ok. It's the tire bit that's nonsensical.
>
> From www.dictionary.co.uk:
>
> Tire \Tire\, v. t. To exhaust the strength of, as by toil or labor; to exhaust the patience of; to
> wear out (one's interest, attention, or the like); to weary; to fatigue; to jade.
>
> Now if one substitutes the correct spelling, of "tyre" it all makes much more sense.
>
> Regards,
>
> Suzy
>
> PS: What sort of country is founded on the back of some guys chucking perfectly good tea in a
> harbour?

Suzy Jackson wrote:

> The tread bit's ok. It's the tire bit that's nonsensical.
>
> From www.dictionary.co.uk:
>
> Tire \Tire\, v. t. To exhaust the strength of, as by toil or labor; to exhaust the patience of; to
> wear out (one's interest, attention, or the like); to weary; to fatigue; to jade.
>
> Now if one substitutes the correct spelling, of "tyre" it all makes much more sense.
>
Well, from the same URL you cited, just above the verb-form definition you quoted, you'll find the
noun-form from the same source, viz:

Tire \Tire\, n. [Aphetic form of attire; OE. tir, a tir. See {Attire}.] ...
Note: The iron tire of a wagon wheel or cart wheel binds the fellies together. The tire of a
locomotive or railroad-car wheel is a heavy hoop of iron or steel shrunk tightly upon an iron
central part. The wheel of a bicycle has a tire of India rubber.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)

> PS: What sort of country is founded on the back of some guys chucking perfectly good tea in a
> harbour?

A country in many ways similar to one that was founded by shiploads of convicted criminals sent into
exile for their crimes. ;-)

Sheldon "Cyclexicographer" Brown +-----------------------------------------------------------+
| Oh, my ways are strange ways and new ways and old ways, | And deep ways and steep ways and high
| ways and low, | I'm at home and at ease on a track that I know not, | And restless and lost on a
| road that I know. | --Henry Lawson, Australian poet. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton,
Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts
shipped Worldwide http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Sheldon Brown writes:

>> Let's get it straight here, eh? As I understand, tire tread is the rubber that's stuck onto the
>> casing. All tires have a tread. If you want to refer to different types, you have to modify the
>> word, such as "smooth tread", or "patterned tread". "Tread" does not mean grooves, knobs, or some
>> other such pattern.

> Webster's Unabridged Dictionary doesn't agree, viz:

> Main Entry: 2tread Pronunciation Guide Pronunciation: " Function: noun ... 6 a (1) : the part of
> the bottom surface of a shoe including or excluding the heel that touches level ground (2) : the
> part of a wheel that bears on a road or rail; especially : the thickened face of an automobile
> tire (3) : CATERPILLAR TREAD b : the design (as a raised or inset pattern of corrugations) on a
> tread <a recognizable hobnail tread

I see agreement in this definition. Nowhere does it say that tread is equivalent to a relief or
texture pattern. It gives examples of some but does not say that tread = pattern. It says to me that
a tread may have a pattern. As was mentioned, the word "tread" alone is not definitive and "hobnail
tread" is what it calls for.

Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

Peter Cole writes:

>> Let's get it straight here, eh? As I understand, tire tread is the rubber that's stuck onto the
>> casing. All tires have a tread. If you want to refer to different types, you have to modify the
>> word, such as "smooth tread", or "patterned tread". "Tread" does not mean grooves, knobs, or some
>> other such pattern.

> From Merriam-Webster, it can mean either:

> 3 a : the part of a shoe or boot sole that touches the ground; also
> : the pattern on the bottom of a sole b (1) : the part of a wheel or
> tire that makes contact with a road or rail (2) : the pattern of ridges or grooves made or cut in
> the face of a tire

That's one of the problems with English, if a term is widely misused, it becomes a new definition.
Some of this is appropriate such as in the computer industry, where many new terms and new uses of
older terns, such as spam, take on new meanings. One of these days I expect "cog" to mean the whole
cog wheel or sprocket which is in no way beneficial to English usage in that it destroys a clearly
defined word to mean what the masses believe it is. So what do we refer when discussing about a
missing or damaged cog on a chainwheel?

Tread is, as Sheldon's citation, the road contact material in which a pattern may occur or not. The
type of tread pattern should be appended to the word tread, as in knobby tread or smooth tread.

Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

<jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org> wrote in message newswU4b.17436$dk4.569911@typhoon.sonic.net...
> Peter Cole writes:
> > From Merriam-Webster, it can mean either:
>
> > 3 a : the part of a shoe or boot sole that touches the ground; also
> > : the pattern on the bottom of a sole b (1) : the part of a wheel or
> > tire that makes contact with a road or rail (2) : the pattern of ridges or grooves made or cut
> > in the face of a tire
>
> That's one of the problems with English, if a term is widely misused, it becomes a new definition.

I thought that was a feature. The language keeps evolving.

> Some of this is appropriate such as in the computer industry, where many new terms and new uses
> of older terns, such as spam, take on new meanings.

Particularly reasonable in this case, since the prior term was recycled metaphorically, yielding a
precise, easy to learn/remember, term in a domain otherwise cluttered with arcane jargon. As a
result, it was quickly adopted. The users (the final arbiters) have spoken. I don't think you could
cite a better example of the flexibility of the language.

> One of these days I expect "cog" to mean the whole cog wheel or sprocket which is in no way
> beneficial to English usage in that it destroys a clearly defined word to mean what the masses
> believe it is. So what do we refer when discussing about a missing or damaged cog on a chainwheel?

I always say "tooth", myself. Everyone these days knows "cog" means the whole part.

> Tread is, as Sheldon's citation, the road contact material in which a pattern may occur or
> not. The type of tread pattern should be appended to the word tread, as in knobby tread or
> smooth tread.

A word means what it is taken to mean by the majority of users. There is no standards committee. The
dictionaries, with their frequent revisions, report not only new words, but changes in meaning of
old words. It's a linguistic free market, not central planning.

A google (another new word) on "deep tread" yields almost 4,000 hits, the majority of which reveal a
context where tread is assumed to mean the pattern of a tire's rubber. A google on "smooth tread"
yields about half the hits, of which RBT FAQ entries are prominent. I think your battle is over.
Stop sprinkling sand into the cogs of progress -- you'll break the teeth.

Quoth Jobst Brandt:

> That's one of the problems with English, if a term is widely misused, it becomes a new definition.
> Some of this is appropriate such as in the computer industry, where many new terms and new uses of
> older terns, such as spam, take on new meanings. One of these days I expect "cog" to mean the
> whole cog wheel or sprocket

That day is already here, as a truncation of "cogwheel."

> which is in no way beneficial to English usage in that it destroys a clearly defined word to mean
> what the masses believe it is.

The benefit is for those poor benighted souls who haven't learned to type properly, for whom typing
"sprocket" is an intolerable burden.

> So what do we refer when discussing about a missing or damaged cog on a chainwheel?

That's easy! "Tooth."

The thing that gets me is when "cog" is used as a synonym for "cluster."

Sheldon "Linguistic Kvetching Is, Indeed, A Delightful Pastime" Brown
+-----------------------------------------+
| Man invented language to satisfy his | deep need to complain. -- Lily Tomlin |
+-----------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Sheldon Brown writes:

>> That's one of the problems with English, if a term is widely misused, it becomes a new
>> definition. Some of this is appropriate such as in the computer industry, where many new terms
>> and new uses of older terns, such as spam, take on new meanings. One of these days I expect "cog"
>> to mean the whole cog wheel or sprocket

> That day is already here, as a truncation of "cogwheel."

>> which is in no way beneficial to English usage in that it destroys a clearly defined word to mean
>> what the masses believe it is.

> The benefit is for those poor benighted souls who haven't learned to type properly, for whom
> typing "sprocket" is an intolerable burden.

>> So what do we refer when discussing about a missing or damaged cog on a chainwheel?

> That's easy! "Tooth."

> The thing that gets me is when "cog" is used as a synonym for "cluster."

Oops, that sounds a lot like what I said, but then "that day is already here" as they say. It all
depends on whether you appreciate precision in writing. I have learned the hazards of not being
precise in my technical writing because many people do not want to accept new technical concepts,
misinterpreting what you say to a great degree... right here on wreck.bike.

Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

x-no-archive:yes

"Peter Cole" <peter_cole@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:gt05b.253695$It4.119334@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
> <jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org> wrote in message
> newswU4b.17436$dk4.569911@typhoon.sonic.net...
> > Peter Cole writes:
> > > From Merriam-Webster, it can mean either:
> >
> > > 3 a : the part of a shoe or boot sole that touches the ground; also
> > > : the pattern on the bottom of a sole b (1) : the part of a wheel or
> > > tire that makes contact with a road or rail (2) : the pattern of ridges or grooves made or cut
> > > in the face of a tire
> >
> > That's one of the problems with English, if a term is widely misused, it becomes a new
> > definition.
>
> I thought that was a feature. The language keeps evolving.

Yep, no doubt about it. We need to go back to a simpler time when we didn't have all these problems
we have today. There's no such thing as evolution, remember!

Pat in TX

"Pat" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:bj3h6s$et3k1$1@ID-194653.news.uni-berlin.de...
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> "Peter Cole" <peter_cole@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:gt05b.253695$It4.119334@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...

> > I thought that was a feature. The language keeps evolving.
>
>
> Yep, no doubt about it. We need to go back to a simpler time when we didn't have all these
> problems we have today. There's no such thing as evolution, remember!
>
> Pat in TX

I'll never discuss evolution with a Texan.