snow riding w/o studs?

Should I bother even attempting to ride in the snow without studded tires, or is it possible? I've
never attempted it. Around here (north of Boston) the woods looks like about 8 inches of
hardpack/ice with some fresh powder on top. I'm going nuts inside, but I'm not sure I want to drop
$80 on new MTB tires. I don't plan on doing much crazy twisty single track, primarily carraige roads
and few trails.

Thanks,

Kyle

Studs are best for riding on ice. Your knobby MTB tires will be fine if you are riding on snow
covered trails.

Joel

"KBH" <kbh9@hollasch.com> wrote in message
news:dsUV9.714755$%m4.3407692@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
> Should I bother even attempting to ride in the snow without studded tires, or is it possible? I've
> never attempted it. Around here (north of Boston) the woods looks like about 8 inches of
> hardpack/ice with some fresh powder on top. I'm going nuts inside, but I'm not sure I want to drop
> $80 on new MTB tires. I don't plan on doing much crazy twisty single track,
primarily
> carraige roads and few trails.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kyle

If you can find a smaller tire with knobs, you may have better luck getting down into something
that'll give you traction. The problem I used to have (before I moved to Socal) was snow
accumulating on the tires/brakes till you couldn't move.

"KBH" <kbh9@hollasch.com> wrote in message
news:dsUV9.714755$%m4.3407692@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
> Should I bother even attempting to ride in the snow without studded tires, or is it possible? I've
> never attempted it. Around here (north of Boston) the woods looks like about 8 inches of
> hardpack/ice with some fresh powder on top. I'm going nuts inside, but I'm not sure I want to drop
> $80 on new MTB tires. I don't plan on doing much crazy twisty single track,
primarily
> carraige roads and few trails.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kyle

"KBH" <kbh9@hollasch.com> spake thusly on or about Fri, 17 Jan 2003
14:30:33 UTC

-> Should I bother even attempting to ride in the snow without studded tires, -> or is it possible?
I've never attempted it. Around here (north of Boston) ->

I am a few miles north of you. ok

studs are for ice and polished packed snow. I have not gotten studded tyres for my bike yet but my
wife and son have had theirs on since October. I am now considering them because of recent rain/thaw
and hard freeze conditions that have left many of the roads and alleys in a condition that has me
wondering if skates might not be better than the bike.

so yes you do not need studs but come the ice you might prefer to have them.

--
I hurt before the ride so fibro gives me a head start on the rest of the pack. silver lining?
bran.everseeking@sk.sympatico.ca

"KBH" <kbh9@hollasch.com> wrote in message
news:dsUV9.714755$%m4.3407692@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
> Should I bother even attempting to ride in the snow without studded tires, or is it possible? I've
> never attempted it. Around here (north of Boston) the woods looks like about 8 inches of
> hardpack/ice with some fresh powder on top. I'm going nuts inside, but I'm not sure I want to drop
> $80 on new MTB tires. I don't plan on doing much crazy twisty single track,
primarily
> carraige roads and few trails.

I've ridden through snow for many years and have never felt unsafe/insecure with my unstudded
tubulars. Steel studs are vastly overrated IMHO. Other riders claim they are immensely
useful/necessary. YMMV

--
Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971

Kyle BH? writes:

> Should I bother even attempting to ride in the snow without studded tires, or is it possible? I've
> never attempted it. Around here (north of Boston) the woods looks like about 8 inches of
> hardpack/ice with some fresh powder on top. I'm going nuts inside, but I'm not sure I want to drop
> $80 on new MTB tires. I don't plan on doing much crazy twisty single track, primarily carriage
> roads and few trails.

I'm not clear on what you plan to ride. Is it "hard-pack" and "ice" or is it trails? If the tire
makes an impression in the snow it is not hard-pack, and knobby tires will help. If tires do not
make an impression on the snow then it is hard-pack and no manner of rubber tread will improve that.
In fact a slick with lowered inflation pressure will work better if it is below freezing. For real
hard-pack and ice, studs are the best solution because they make impressions, impressions that equal
"bite" and traction.

Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org Palo Alto CA

"KBH" <kbh9@hollasch.com> wrote in message
news:dsUV9.714755$%m4.3407692@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
> Should I bother even attempting to ride in the snow without studded tires, or is it possible? I've
> never attempted it. Around here (north of Boston) the woods looks like about 8 inches of
> hardpack/ice with some fresh powder on top. I'm going nuts inside, but I'm not sure I want to drop
> $80 on new MTB tires. I don't plan on doing much crazy twisty single track, primarily carraige
> roads and few trails.

As others have pointed out, studs are really only helpful on ice and hardpack (frozen granular), but
on those surfaces, they are superb. When you get exactly the right (rare) conditions, off road
riding with studs is amazing, it's as if the woods have been paved. I find that studs are most
useful on bike trails/paths that get plowed, but not sanded/salted, since the daily thaw/refreeze
cycles leave lots of icy patches.

Some studded tires use real carbide studs, which will wear forever, others, including homemades,
will wear out rapidly on pavement. Tire tread patterns for snow need to be open to prevent clogging,
wide tires are better for not sinking into packed snow. Snow conditions are so variable that nothing
works in all situations. I use studded tires off road (after snow here in Boston) because they're
also good snow tires (from the tread pattern, not studs), they'll handle the intermittent icy
patches, and when conditions are right, they're as much fun as downhill skiing, and about the same
price (for one day, that is).

Beware of the conditions you mentioned though: fresh powder on ice, that's deadly, a little powder
can "float" the studs.

"Robin Hubert" <cv2572@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1XVV9.15809$Qr4.1496460@newsrea....earthlink.net...

> Studded tires are for ice, not snow. They will not help you there. The biggest problem you're
> going to have is forward motion (as in, getting
it).
> Your standard knobbie will work just fine.

Getting forward motion is easy. Getting rid of it without skidding is the bigger problem, and the
bigger safety issue.

Matt O.

<jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org> wrote in message news:x5%V9.61272$Ik.2265330@typhoon.sonic.net...

> > Should I bother even attempting to ride in the snow without studded tires, or is it possible?
> > I've never attempted it. Around here (north of Boston) the woods looks like about 8 inches of
> > hardpack/ice with some fresh powder on top. I'm going nuts inside, but I'm not sure I want to
> > drop $80 on new MTB tires. I don't plan on doing much crazy twisty single track, primarily
> > carriage roads and few trails.
>
> I'm not clear on what you plan to ride. Is it "hard-pack" and "ice" or is it trails? If the tire
> makes an impression in the snow it is not hard-pack, and knobby tires will help. If tires do not
> make an impression on the snow then it is hard-pack and no manner of rubber tread will improve
> that. In fact a slick with lowered inflation pressure will work better if it is below freezing.
> For real hard-pack and ice, studs are the best solution because they make impressions, impressions
> that equal "bite" and traction.

For marginal hardpack conditions, I've found that a larger tire at lower pressure is best. They roll
over other tire tracks better too without being deflected, or "tramlining." I break out the old
2.35" Ritcheys on days like today. Viva la mountain bike.

Matt O.

> I'm not clear on what you plan to ride. Is it "hard-pack" and "ice" or is it trails? If the tire
> makes an impression in the snow it is not hard-pack, and knobby tires will help. If tires do not
> make an impression on the snow then it is hard-pack and no manner of rubber tread will improve
> that. In fact a slick with lowered inflation pressure will work better if it is below freezing.
> For real hard-pack and ice, studs are the best solution because they make impressions, impressions
> that equal "bite" and traction.

It's some of both, and this is going to change on a daily basis depending on the thaw/freeze pattern
as well as precipitation. So I guess I would be best off with studded tires as they will perform in
all conditions, however I'll be OK with regular knobby tires as long as the snow isn't solid ice.

Thanks everyone for your help.

Kyle

RE/
>Getting forward motion is easy. Getting rid of it without skidding is the bigger problem, and the
>bigger safety issue.

It was the sideward motion followed by downward motion, followed by no motion that put me off of it.
-----------------------
Pete Cresswell

"KBH" <kbh9@hollasch.com> wrote in message
news:<dsUV9.714755$%m4.3407692@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>...
> Should I bother even attempting to ride in the snow without studded tires, or is it possible? I've
> never attempted it. Around here (north of Boston) the woods looks like about 8 inches of
> hardpack/ice with some fresh powder on top. I'm going nuts inside, but I'm not sure I want to drop
> $80 on new MTB tires. I don't plan on doing much crazy twisty single track, primarily carraige
> roads and few trails.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kyle

In rural michigan, with roads with packed down snow, standard tires had my front wheel slipping out
on the slightest turns. However, I made some "studded tires" with short sheet-metal screws through
every other knob on some old Specialized Groud Control tires. A tuffy tire liner kept the tube
decent. This worked great, and cost about $3 for the screws. However, like everyone else has said,
if it's just deepish snow, you'll have other difficulties. Matt

RE/
>. I find that studs are most useful on bike trails/paths that get plowed, but not sanded/salted,
> since the daily thaw/refreeze cycles leave lots of icy patches.

They'd appeal to me here in Southeastern Penna where there isn't much snow because of the frequent
patches of ice under snow. You can't see it coming and, in my limited experience, losing the front
wheel at any kind of speed is a serious bummer.
-----------------------
Pete Cresswell

Be careful. I would advocate studs if you have much ice. Took 4 or 5 falls on Charles River Bike
Path today without studs. Probably will not try that again until things thaw more.

KBH wrote:
>
> > I'm not clear on what you plan to ride. Is it "hard-pack" and "ice" or is it trails? If the tire
> > makes an impression in the snow it is not hard-pack, and knobby tires will help. If tires do not
> > make an impression on the snow then it is hard-pack and no manner of rubber tread will improve
> > that. In fact a slick with lowered inflation pressure will work better if it is below freezing.
> > For real hard-pack and ice, studs are the best solution because they make impressions,
> > impressions that equal "bite" and traction.
>
> It's some of both, and this is going to change on a daily basis depending on the thaw/freeze
> pattern as well as precipitation. So I guess I would be best off with studded tires as they will
> perform in all conditions, however I'll be OK with regular knobby tires as long as the snow isn't
> solid ice.
>
> Thanks everyone for your help.
>
> Kyle

--
Lincoln Ross NOTE ADDRESS CHANGE: lincolnr@rcn.com