Latex tubes , Hold air longer and puncture resistant???

Looked at some tubes made by Air - B. The box describes them as holding air 10 times longer than
regular latex tubes. They also claim to be puncture and pinch flat resistant. Supposed to be
lightweight too. Is this a bunch of marketing hype or??? Are latex tubes normally more puncture
resistant?

Thanks

Robert Box writes:

> Looked at some tubes made by Air - B. The box describes them as holding air 10 times longer than
> regular latex tubes. They also claim to be puncture and pinch flat resistant. Supposed to be
> lightweight too. Is this a bunch of marketing hype or??? Are latex tubes normally more puncture
> resistant?

I'm not familiar with these tubes so I don't know what is different about them from normal latex
tubes. Latex leaks air so fast that the normally used racing tires needed daily inflation. That
latex is better in pinch flat protection should be obvious from the ability to stretch many times
more than butyl rubber before it breaks. This is essentially what causes a pinch flat, the
compression and lateral squeezing out rubber.

On the other hand, there are a lot of bad reviews at:

http://www.mtbreview.com/reviews/Tub...ct_23492.shtml

Reading these makes me doubt that these people know what is happening. They talk of blowouts, which
to me means "BANG". If you heard the bang then the tire was off the rim. So how can I believe this
is tube related. Another writer claims the base tape cuts the tube. This is an old saw and an excuse
for tire lift-offs that cause long blowout slashes in tubes.

I don't know what to make of it but I don't care for latex tubes. My rolling resistance and weight
is just fine and I can go on a four week bicycle ride without pumping.

Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote in message news:<ehsab.22667$dk4.706648@typhoon.sonic.net>...
> Robert Box writes:
>
> > Looked at some tubes made by Air - B. The box describes them as holding air 10 times longer than
> > regular latex tubes. They also claim to be puncture and pinch flat resistant. Supposed to be
> > lightweight too. Is this a bunch of marketing hype or??? Are latex tubes normally more puncture
> > resistant?
>
> I'm not familiar with these tubes so I don't know what is different about them from normal latex
> tubes. Latex leaks air so fast that the normally used racing tires needed daily inflation. That
> latex is better in pinch flat protection should be obvious from the ability to stretch many times
> more than butyl rubber before it breaks. This is essentially what causes a pinch flat, the
> compression and lateral squeezing out rubber.
>
> On the other hand, there are a lot of bad reviews at:
>
> http://www.mtbreview.com/reviews/Tub...ct_23492.shtml
>
> Reading these makes me doubt that these people know what is happening. They talk of blowouts,
> which to me means "BANG". If you heard the bang then the tire was off the rim. So how can I
> believe this is tube related. Another writer claims the base tape cuts the tube. This is an old
> saw and an excuse for tire lift-offs that cause long blowout slashes in tubes.
>
> I don't know what to make of it but I don't care for latex tubes. My rolling resistance and weight
> is just fine and I can go on a four week bicycle ride without pumping.
>
> Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

********************************

After reading these reviews by Limeys, I say that they aren't smart enough to use them properly.

Just my humble opinion of course. :-)

Lewis.

*******************

Hold air 10x longer? I don't know; both of mine blew up while I was inflating them.

Let's face it, inner tubes just aren't that exciting. Spend some time inspecting your tires for
glass and crud before each ride if you want to reduce the number of flats.

-Dion

<jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org> wrote in message news:ehsab.22667$dk4.706648@typhoon.sonic.net...
> Robert Box writes:
>
> > Looked at some tubes made by Air - B. The box describes them as holding air 10 times longer than
> > regular latex tubes. They also claim to be puncture and pinch flat resistant. Supposed to be
> > lightweight too. Is this a bunch of marketing hype or??? Are latex tubes normally more puncture
> > resistant?
>
> I'm not familiar with these tubes so I don't know what is different about them from normal latex
> tubes. Latex leaks air so fast that the normally used racing tires needed daily inflation. That
> latex is better in pinch flat protection should be obvious from the ability to stretch many times
> more than butyl rubber before it breaks. This is essentially what causes a pinch flat, the
> compression and lateral squeezing out rubber.
>
> On the other hand, there are a lot of bad reviews at:
>
> http://www.mtbreview.com/reviews/Tub...ct_23492.shtml
>
> Reading these makes me doubt that these people know what is happening. They talk of blowouts,
> which to me means "BANG". If you heard the bang then the tire was off the rim. So how can I
> believe this is tube related. Another writer claims the base tape cuts the tube. This is an old
> saw and an excuse for tire lift-offs that cause long blowout slashes in tubes.
>
> I don't know what to make of it but I don't care for latex tubes. My rolling resistance and weight
> is just fine and I can go on a four week bicycle ride without pumping.
>
> Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

Dion Dock writes:

> Hold air 10x longer?

As I said, latex tubulars required daily pumping and my 700c x 25 tires make it a month without
pumping. I call that at least 10x.

> I don't know; both of mine blew up while I was inflating them.

I'm interested in how that occurred. Did you hear them make a bang?

> Let's face it, inner tubes just aren't that exciting.

I call explosions exciting.

> Spend some time inspecting your tires for glass and crud before each ride if you want to reduce
> the number of flats.

I think that is too late. If the tire isn't punctured by the time you get ready for the next ride,
it won't happen. Flats occur in a short time after the sharp object engages the tire.

Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

"Lewis Campbell" <limeylew@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e68f926d.0309190257.2f04850a@posting.google.com...
> jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote in message
news:<ehsab.22667$dk4.706648@typhoon.sonic.net>...
> > Robert Box writes:
[much snippage]
>
> Just my humble opinion of course. :-)

There is no such thing as a *humble* opinion.

I've never even seen the beast's tracks!

Tim.

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.518 / Virus Database: 316 - Release Date: 11/09/03

robertbox@angelfire.com (Robert Box) wrote in message
news:<e33159d3.0309181305.550bab3a@posting.google.com>...
> Looked at some tubes made by Air - B. The box describes them as holding air 10 times longer than
> regular latex tubes. They also claim to be puncture and pinch flat resistant. Supposed to be
> lightweight too. Is this a bunch of marketing hype or??? Are latex tubes normally more puncture
> resistant?

Based on my experience with tubular tires, I would say yes, definitely, except for one thing: the
better tires have latex tubes, so maybe it's just that the better tires are more puncture resistant.

JP

I have a fair amount of experience with tubies using both butyl (Contis) and latex (Vittorias) inner
tubes. The latex leaked air rapidly ... it would be enough to notice (barely) after a long ride. Not
so with the butyl ... their leakage was less in 48 hours than the latex in 3-4.

I had problems with latex durability. I baby my tires, and rarely get road hazard flats. The latex
tubes almost invariably failed adjacent to the valve stem (where it's nearly impossible to patch). I
speculate that the repeated stress of pushing the pump fitting on the presta stem eventually led to
the failures ... it sure wasn't something I road over when the failure zone is under the rim.

That said, the latex tires seemed to have a slightly more compliant ride. But I got frustrated by
the cost (now around $80 each) to replace a tire that had plenty of tread but I couldn't
successfully repair. (That may be an indictment of my repair technique ... but I've never succeeded
with these tires.)

R / John

"JP" <SocSecTrainWreck@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1f323b67.0309191023.7223320d@posting.google.com...
> robertbox@angelfire.com (Robert Box) wrote in message
news:<e33159d3.0309181305.550bab3a@posting.google.com>...
> > Looked at some tubes made by Air - B. The box describes them as holding air 10 times longer than
> > regular latex tubes. They also claim to be puncture and pinch flat resistant. Supposed to be
> > lightweight too. Is this a bunch of marketing hype or??? Are latex tubes normally more puncture
> > resistant?
>
> Based on my experience with tubular tires, I would say yes, definitely, except for one thing: the
> better tires have latex tubes, so maybe it's just that the better tires are more puncture
> resistant.
>
> JP

I had one go `BANG" .

Left an inch long gash in a Conti Grand Prix tyre - which was close to being new (used only 2-3
times). The tyre did not come off the rim

Is it safe to say I can blame the tube? It is not only only time one has gone `BANG', so I do not
use them any more

Paul

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:

> Robert Box writes:
>
> > Looked at some tubes made by Air - B. The box describes them as holding air 10 times longer than
> > regular latex tubes. They also claim to be puncture and pinch flat resistant. Supposed to be
> > lightweight too. Is this a bunch of marketing hype or??? Are latex tubes normally more puncture
> > resistant?
>
> I'm not familiar with these tubes so I don't know what is different about them from normal latex
> tubes. Latex leaks air so fast that the normally used racing tires needed daily inflation. That
> latex is better in pinch flat protection should be obvious from the ability to stretch many times
> more than butyl rubber before it breaks. This is essentially what causes a pinch flat, the
> compression and lateral squeezing out rubber.
>
> On the other hand, there are a lot of bad reviews at:
>
> http://www.mtbreview.com/reviews/Tub...ct_23492.shtml
>
> Reading these makes me doubt that these people know what is happening. They talk of blowouts,
> which to me means "BANG". If you heard the bang then the tire was off the rim. So how can I
> believe this is tube related. Another writer claims the base tape cuts the tube. This is an old
> saw and an excuse for tire lift-offs that cause long blowout slashes in tubes.
>
> I don't know what to make of it but I don't care for latex tubes. My rolling resistance and weight
> is just fine and I can go on a four week bicycle ride without pumping.
>
> Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

Paul Jones writes:

> I had one go `BANG".

> Left an inch long gash in a Conti Grand Prix tyre - which was close to being new (used only 2-3
> times). The tyre did not come off the rim

If you heard the bang, the tire was off the rim. There is no way around that. That the tire fell
back into place is also self evident.

> Is it safe to say I can blame the tube? It is not only only time one has gone `BANG', so I do not
> use them any more

This comes up so often that there is an FAQ item about just that:

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8b.4.html

Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

robertbox@angelfire.com (Robert Box) wrote in message
news:<e33159d3.0309181305.550bab3a@posting.google.com>...
> Looked at some tubes made by Air - B. The box describes them as holding air 10 times longer than
> regular latex tubes. They also claim to be puncture and pinch flat resistant. Supposed to be
> lightweight too. Is this a bunch of marketing hype or??? Are latex tubes normally more puncture
> resistant?
>
> Thanks

Some latex tubes are advertised as having a thin butyl layer on the inside. There isn't any way that
this would cause the tube to hold air 10 times longer than standard latex tubes. Latex tubes might
help prevent some pinch flats, but they won't protect a tire going flat from a puncture. Latex tubes
are very hard to install without ruining. You have to be extremely careful not to pinch the tube in
the bead when installing. Every latex tube that I have ever installed in a clincher, has failed at
the valve. On the other hand, I've never had a problem with a latex tubed tubular.

"John Carrier" <jxc2@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<ImednZjO_4LT4faiXTWJiQ@comcast.com>...
> I have a fair amount of experience with tubies using both butyl (Contis) and latex (Vittorias)
> inner tubes. The latex leaked air rapidly ... it would be enough to notice (barely) after a long
> ride. Not so with the butyl ... their leakage was less in 48 hours than the latex in 3-4.
>
> I had problems with latex durability. I baby my tires, and rarely get road hazard flats. The latex
> tubes almost invariably failed adjacent to the valve stem (where it's nearly impossible to patch).
> I speculate that the repeated stress of pushing the pump fitting on the presta stem eventually led
> to the failures ... it sure wasn't something I road over when the failure zone is under the rim.

I think that as latex tubulars get older they leak more. I read somewhere that you should let the
air out of them after your ride because leaving them at pressure makes them more porous. I have seen
the effect where a latex tubular does get to the point where it will hardly last a ride but I never
deflated my tires because of it. I don't think a new latex tubular should have a noticeable leakage
after four hours.

I have never had a leak near the valve stem as you describe it.

JP

JP writes anonymously as he probably should:

>> I have a fair amount of experience with tubies using both butyl (Contis) and latex (Vittorias)
>> inner tubes. The latex leaked air rapidly ... it would be enough to notice (barely) after a long
>> ride. Not so with the butyl ... their leakage was less in 48 hours than the latex in 3-4.

>> I had problems with latex durability. I baby my tires, and rarely get road hazard flats. The
>> latex tubes almost invariably failed adjacent to the valve stem (where it's nearly impossible to
>> patch). I speculate that the repeated stress of pushing the pump fitting on the Presta stem
>> eventually led to the failures ... it sure wasn't something I road over when the failure zone is
>> under the rim.

> I think that as latex tubulars get older they leak more. I read somewhere that you should let the
> air out of them after your ride because leaving them at pressure makes them more porous.

"I read somewhere" is a seemingly safe way to to pass on myth and lore, which this is. What
happens is that latex tubes lose their elasticity with exposure to oxygen and especially ozone.
They pinch flat more easily in that state but do not leak faster. They also tear easily when
trying to patch them.

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8b.18.html

Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

In article <599ccdc5.0309211351.2e7b3d59@posting.google.com>, RDKILL53@HOTMAIL.COM says...

I use to run air-b tubes, but I got tired of pumping them up all the time.

>Some latex tubes are advertised as having a thin butyl layer on the inside. There isn't any way
>that this would cause the tube to hold air 10 times longer than standard latex tubes.

They don't hold air 10 times longer. Maybe twice as long, but not much more than that. I could go
no more than 2 days without pumping them back up to full pressure. They would go from 120psi to 90
in two days.

>Latex tubes might help prevent some pinch flats, but they won't protect a tire going flat from a
>puncture.

They do leak much, much slower than butyl if the puncture is very small. I had a tube that was
punctured for a few weeks. It would lose air so slowly that I just thought the butyl layer was not
working any more. When I finally pulled the tube to check it, it still took effort to find the leak.
I had to pump up the tube and stretch it under water to see the tiny leak.

>Latex tubes are very hard to install without ruining. You have to be extremely careful not to pinch
>the tube in the bead when installing.

No more so than a butyl tube.

>Every latex tube that I have ever installed in a clincher, has failed at the valve. On the other
>hand, I've never had a problem with a latex tubed tubular.

I never had a latex tube go bad at the valve. I ran these for a couple of years and then gave up on
them because I had to pump them up so often.
-----------------
Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote in message news:<Vxwbb.23267$dk4.743812@typhoon.sonic.net>...
> JP writes anonymously as he probably should:
>
> >> I have a fair amount of experience with tubies using both butyl (Contis) and latex (Vittorias)
> >> inner tubes. The latex leaked air rapidly ... it would be enough to notice (barely) after a
> >> long ride. Not so with the butyl ... their leakage was less in 48 hours than the latex in 3-4.
>
> >> I had problems with latex durability. I baby my tires, and rarely get road hazard flats. The
> >> latex tubes almost invariably failed adjacent to the valve stem (where it's nearly impossible
> >> to patch). I speculate that the repeated stress of pushing the pump fitting on the Presta stem
> >> eventually led to the failures ... it sure wasn't something I road over when the failure zone
> >> is under the rim.
>
> > I think that as latex tubulars get older they leak more. I read somewhere that you should let
> > the air out of them after your ride because leaving them at pressure makes them more porous.
>
> "I read somewhere" is a seemingly safe way to to pass on myth and lore, which this is. What
> happens is that latex tubes lose their elasticity with exposure to oxygen and especially ozone.
> They pinch flat more easily in that state but do not leak faster. They also tear easily when
> trying to patch them.

Myth or not, I have definitely observed with my own tubular tires that their ability to hold air
decreases with age. I had a pair of Clement Criterium Setas that lasted a long time but eventually
just would not hold air long enough for more than a short ride. They may have had slow leaks but the
development over the course of months if not years would seem to indicate that a microscopic
puncture does not fully explain the effect. I am not sure what evidence you have to support your
claim beyond the FAQ you reference (which does not address *at all* latex tubes or whether their
porosity increases with age), but it does seem to me that given that latex tubes are porous when new
(a known fact) and that they get brittle with age (according to you), that the combination of
brittleness and inherent porosity would tend to make them leak faster as they age. As to whether
deflating them helps or not, I only know what I read which was probably Bicycling magazine at least
two decades ago, but since I never bothered, I am relieved to know that it was not the cause of the
ultimate demise of my Clements, which were pretty special tires.

JP