Using racing bike for touring - Page 4

Last month, one of the leading Bicycle magazines had an article on past living Tour de France
winners. I think Jobst Brandt is in better shape than at least 90% of them. Hair or no hair, he's
still an awesome cyclist and I have enjoyed his contributions to the news group. -tom

"Tim McNamara" <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote in message
news:m2ptfftzzz.fsf@localhost.bitstream.net...
> Werehatrack <rault00@earthWEEDSlink.net> writes:
>
> > On 26 Nov 2003 05:37:02 GMT, David Reuteler <reuteler@visi.com> may have said:
> >
> > >Carl Fogel <carlfogel@comcast.net> wrote:
> > >: . . . if I still
> > >...
> > >: could suffer fools like me as well as he does.
> > >
> > >ummm, carl, that's one thing he most decidedly doesn't do well.
> >
> > Are we having a competition for understatements this week? (Not that I blame him, in many cases;
> > some fools carry their status on a campaign banner.)
>
> Heh. Sometimes Jobst seems to suffer the fools OK, it's the grievous eejits he doesn't seem to
> tolerate (those waving the flag of ignorance proudly). He also doesn't tolerate those who seem not
> to learn and carry on with silly statements.

ease on the rear first then feed in the front crazy dude!! AND DON'T FORGET TO PRELOAD THE TREAD
BEFORE TURNING!!

"Tom Nakashima" <tom@slac.stanford.edu> wrote in message news:bq2fnk$6ul$1@news.Stanford.EDU...

> Last month, one of the leading Bicycle magazines had an article on past living Tour de France
> winners.

I saw that -- very cool feature. Wasn't that the same issue that had the old Tour de France bikes too?

> I think Jobst Brandt is in better shape than at least 90% of them. Hair or no hair, he's still an
> awesome cyclist and I have enjoyed his contributions to the news group.

When you're as fast as Jobst, hair-o-dynamics don't matter. It's a good thing I don't have any hair,
as I need all the help I can get.

Matt O.

I beleive it was in two parts, can't remember about the Tour de France bikes, I never buy the mags, just read
them at the book store. Amazing how the ex Tour de France winners have aged, wondering if it's due to cycling
in the Tour. Rick Barry the pro basketball star still looks pretty good for his age, heard he could
still hoop it up in a 1/2 court game. LeMond looks like he's aged quite a bit, hope it isn't due to
buck-shot. -tom

"Matt O'Toole" <matt@deltanet.com> wrote in message news:yf4xb.16$a54.9@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
>
> "Tom Nakashima" <tom@slac.stanford.edu> wrote in message news:bq2fnk$6ul$1@news.Stanford.EDU...
>
> > Last month, one of the leading Bicycle magazines had an article on past living Tour de France
> > winners.
>
> I saw that -- very cool feature. Wasn't that the same issue that had the
old
> Tour de France bikes too?
>
> > I think Jobst Brandt is in better shape than at least 90% of them. Hair or no hair, he's still
> > an awesome cyclist and I have enjoyed his contributions to the news group.
>
> When you're as fast as Jobst, hair-o-dynamics don't matter. It's a good
thing I
> don't have any hair, as I need all the help I can get.
>
> Matt O.

David Reuteler <reuteler@visi.com> wrote in message
news:<3fc43bfe$0$41297$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>...
> Carl Fogel <carlfogel@comcast.net> wrote:
> : . . . if I still
> ...
> : could suffer fools like me as well as he does.
>
> ummm, carl, that's one thing he most decidedly doesn't do well.

Dear David,

Jobst has suffered my drivel rather nicely, given that it was drivel and how much there is of it. He
could do better, but so could we all.

Keep in mind that Jobst is a lightning rod for all sorts of imbecility, well-meant and otherwise.
How well would we do if we had to deal with the repeated, expanded, and utterly clueless nonsense
that swamps him, year after year?

Maybe lightning rod isn't the best analogy. Possibly a statue facing yet another flock of pigeons
would be more accurate? There may be eagles, too, but it all tends to look the same from the
statue's point of view.

And it tends to get in his hair.

One of the flock,

Carl Fogel

"Tom Nakashima" <tom@slac.stanford.edu> writes:

> Last month, one of the leading Bicycle magazines had an article on past living Tour de France
> winners.

Some of them don't look so good...

> I think Jobst Brandt is in better shape than at least 90% of them.

And he's as old as or older than many of the surviving Tour winners. Jobst probably rides more than
most of them, and spends a lot of time every year riding up mountains. He's probably in better shape
than I am despite being about 15-20 years older.

Carl Fogel <carlfogel@comcast.net> wrote:
: Jobst has suffered my drivel rather nicely, given that it was drivel and how much there is of it.

honestly carl i can't figure that out myself. i can only surmise that for whatever reason he must
have a special place in his heart for you.

: How well would we do if we had to deal with the repeated, expanded, and utterly clueless nonsense
: that swamps him, year after year?

hmmm, i do ok thanks. my field is UNIX not bicycles, tho. but good lord i more than understand.
--
david reuteler reuteler@visi.com

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:05:01 GMT, David <biker780@dsafds.dsafdsa.yahoo.dsafds.com> wrote:

>You can actually put fenders on racing bikes now. I am not sure about the brand name, but the buddy
>of mine who owns an Atlantis bought a pair of carbon fibre fenders. Light and expensive as hell,
>but works with any racing bikes. They are very thin and I think easily breakable if you crash.

One problem is that when the chainstays get down to about 42 cm that a normal Ultegra front
derailleur will swing into the fender. I had a Trek 720 hybrid with ESGE fenders and an XT (?) front
derailleur. I had to cut out part of the fenders. It worked, but not a real elegant solution.

Most saddles require a break in period for your butt. Your butt has to get used to the saddle. I
remember the first 1-2 months breaking in my Brooks B17 in 1998. The contact points got a bit
inflamed like cushions themselves (i.e. my butt). I'm still using the same saddle. No complaints at
all. It works for me maybe 25,000 miles later.

Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote in message
news:<87znelvgb5.fsf@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk>...
> yvonne585@msn.com (Yvonne) writes:
>
> > Has anyone used a racing bike for touring (carrying 15kg/35lbs max)? If you have, what pannier
> > system did you use, and was it succesful or were there any problems? I've been looking at an
> > entry level racing bike for this purpose. It doesn't have braze-ons for panniers and have been
> > advised that a seatpost carrier would be unsuitable for this weight.
>
> I've used racing bikes for touring using a trailer. The particular trailer I actually used was a
> thing called a 'bike hod' which I cannot recommend since its center of gravity was too high and it
> had an unnerving propensity for overturning on fast downhill bends. I plan to buy myself a BOB Yak
> or similar one-wheel trailer which I believe will be a better solution.
>
> However, I'm completely sold on the principle of using a trailer. The benefits include at the end
> of the day having an uncluttered bike from which you can simply unhook the trailer and go off for
> a blast; having relatively little effect on the handling and feel of the bike; and, when
> manhandling it for example when getting on and off trains, having two easy loads instead of one
> awkward and unmanageable one.

Thanks to everyone for your really useful suggestions and for letting me know about your
experiences. From your replies I can see that it might still be possible to tour on the (small)
Giant OCR1 compact road bike, maybe using the Old Man Mountain pannier system if it will fit.
Since posting my message I've found out that there's a Tifosi CK7 Audax bike (with pannier
system on) available. It has to be built up (approx 10kg in weight when built) and would work
out at a similar price to the Giant (perhaps a bit more expensive). This might be a good option
for me as I'm in Ireland and the only touring bikes available here are Dawes. I'm trying to
avoid getting one of these as I'd like a bike with a more lively feel and one that is not going
to put me too much over the 20kg weight allowance on planes. (I'm also keen to continue using
drop handlebars as I've been very happy with these on my old bike.) Has anyone had any
experience of touring on the Tifosi Audax bike that you could pass on? Thanks again. Yvonne

> Thanks to everyone for your really useful suggestions and for letting me know about your
> experiences. From your replies I can see that it might still be possible to tour on the
> (small) Giant OCR1 compact road bike, maybe using the Old Man Mountain pannier system if it
> will fit. Since posting my message I've found out that there's a Tifosi CK7 Audax bike (with
> pannier system on) available. It has to be built up (approx 10kg in weight when built) and
> would work out at a similar price to the Giant (perhaps a bit more expensive). This might be a
> good option for me as I'm in Ireland and the only touring bikes available here are Dawes. I'm
> trying to avoid getting one of these as I'd like a bike with a more lively feel and one that
> is not going to put me too much over the 20kg weight allowance on planes. (I'm also keen to
> continue using drop handlebars as I've been very happy with these on my old bike.) Has anyone
> had any experience of touring on the Tifosi Audax bike that you could pass on? Thanks again.
> Yvonne

While I have no experience touring on the Tifosi Audax bike (I am sure it is nice), I had met a few
British ladies touring on Dawes Galaxys on a few of my road tours. They all seemed to be very happy
with them, so I assume they ride great.

If you plan to choose a touring bike over a race bike, the lively feel or effect may get unnoticed
or muted once you loaded the bike down with panniers. A lot of people made reference that frame
material determines the lively feel of the bike. In reality, it is the design of the tubes,
specifically butted tubes that will make other alloy materials other than steel be - close to -
steel compliant. Aluminum bikes (good ones) can be made to ride like a steel bike. We are not taking
about what goes on sale in Wal-mart. A true testament would be 7005 T-6 butted Aluminum touring bike
which rides exactly the same as my old stolen Miyata LT-1000 steel using similar rims and tires
unloaded. The only difference between an aluminum bike and a steel bike is stiffness. It is this
stiffness that makes my aluminum bike shines more than my old steel bike when loaded, which is NOT
the function of the material but the way the tubing was constructed. I can feel that there's less
twisting on the bottom bracket and less of a feeling of fish tailing on the rear of my aluminum bike
while towing the BOB or loaded down with those big 47 L panniers. It was flexy on my Miyata LT-1000
as well as on my ex-Olmo Columbus Gara race bike.

horsing a sensitive geometry down the road over varying surfaces can get realllly tiring. make yawl
wish for 1" 3/8"s tires and 44" chainstays. can you see geometry? the frame stratches out front to
rear for easy going, more upright for handling? the made to fit for height and leg length top tube
and crank arms in a tourng model give terrific straight ahead power opposed to the "handling" of the
close set frame and the wrong size.

G? Daniels writes:

> Horsing a sensitive geometry down the road over varying surfaces can get realllly tiring. make
> yawl wish for 1" 3/8"s tires and 44" chainstays. Can you see geometry? The frame stratches out
> front to rear for easy going, more upright for handling?

"Upright handling"? What do you think Tour de France racers are giving up with their bicycles, riding up to 150
miles per day, that would be more comfortable with a touring frame? The only difference I detect is
fittings for attaching baggage racks and mudguards. As I said, I've been riding a "racing" bicycle
for many years over all sorts of roads for thousands of miles, and the absence of touring lugs have
not made riding uncomfortable.

> The made to fit for height and leg length top tube and crank arms in a tourng model give terrific
> straight ahead power opposed to the "handling" of the close set frame and the wrong size.

I don't believe you know what you mean by handling. Tandems corner better than most singles under
the right riders until hairpin turns get a tighter radius than three times the wheelbase. Your text
is made of the myth and lore that gets handed around among people who have never tested any of the
theories proposed. It just sounds good to those who don't do it.

http://tinyurl.com/xaco

Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

<jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org> wrote in message news:TUQyb.227$XF6.6997@typhoon.sonic.net...
> G? Daniels writes:
>
> > Horsing a sensitive geometry down the road over varying surfaces can get realllly tiring. make
> > yawl wish for 1" 3/8"s tires and 44" chainstays. Can you see geometry? The frame stratches out
> > front to rear for easy going, more upright for handling?
>
> "Upright handling"? What do you think Tour de France racers are giving up with their bicycles, riding up to
> 150 miles per day, that would be more comfortable with a touring frame? The only difference I
> detect is fittings for attaching baggage racks and mudguards. As I said, I've been riding a
> "racing" bicycle for many years over all sorts of roads for thousands of miles, and the absence of
> touring lugs have not made riding uncomfortable.

Well, what you call a "racing" bicycle, with 45cm chainstays, is not what the rest of the world
calls a "racing" bicycle.

>
> > The made to fit for height and leg length top tube and crank arms in a tourng model give
> > terrific straight ahead power opposed to the "handling" of the close set frame and the
> > wrong size.
>
> I don't believe you know what you mean by handling. Tandems corner better than most singles under
> the right riders until hairpin turns get a tighter radius than three times the wheelbase. Your
> text is made of the myth and lore that gets handed around among people who have never tested any
> of the theories proposed. It just sounds good to those who don't do it.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/xaco

Ja, I can do that.

Robin Hubert

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote in message news:<TUQyb.227$XF6.6997@typhoon.sonic.net>...

[snip]

> . . . Tandems corner better than most singles under the right riders until hairpin turns get a
> tighter radius than three times the wheelbase.

[snip]

Dear Jobst,

I think that I understand why a long wheelbase tandem will suffer in extremely tight turns, but why
do they corner better than ordinary bikes elsewhere?

Does the effect, whatever it is, scale up? That is, should the good guys in stretch limousines be
able to outcorner the assassins pursuing them in ordinary wheelbase cars?

Baffled as usual,

Carl Fogel