Using racing bike for touring - Page 5

Carl Fogel writes:

>> Tandems corner better than most singles under the right riders until hairpin turns get a tighter
>> radius than three times the wheelbase.

> I think that I understand why a long wheelbase tandem will suffer in extremely tight turns, but
> why do they corner better than ordinary bikes elsewhere?

Steering movements make smaller changes in direction than with a short wheelbase. Taken close to the
limit, I think it apparent that a theoretical wheelbase of a few inches would steer erratically.
Besides, the long wheelbase makes the road smoother and braking results in less weight transfer.

> Does the effect, whatever it is, scale up? That is, should the good guys in stretch limousines be
> able to outcorner the assassins pursuing them in ordinary wheelbase cars?

> Boffo as usual.

Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

<jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org> wrote in message news:TUQyb.227$XF6.6997@typhoon.sonic.net...
> G? Daniels writes:
>
> > Horsing a sensitive geometry down the road over varying
surfaces can
> > get realllly tiring. make yawl wish for 1" 3/8"s tires and
44"
> > chainstays. Can you see geometry? The frame stratches out
front to
> > rear for easy going, more upright for handling?
>
> "Upright handling"? What do you think Tour de France racers are giving up
with
> their bicycles, riding up to 150 miles per day, that would be
more
> comfortable with a touring frame? The only difference I detect
is
> fittings for attaching baggage racks and mudguards. As I said,
I've
> been riding a "racing" bicycle for many years over all sorts of
roads
> for thousands of miles, and the absence of touring lugs have
not made
> riding uncomfortable.
>
> > The made to fit for height and leg length top tube and crank
arms in
> > a tourng model give terrific straight ahead power opposed to
the
> > "handling" of the close set frame and the wrong size.
>
> I don't believe you know what you mean by handling. Tandems
corner
> better than most singles under the right riders until hairpin
turns
> get a tighter radius than three times the wheelbase. Your text
is
> made of the myth and lore that gets handed around among people
who
> have never tested any of the theories proposed. It just sounds
good
> to those who don't do it.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/xaco

Jobst, where is the place shown in the picture, and is it still unpaved? -- Jay Beattie.

Jay Beattie writes:

>> I don't believe you know what you mean by handling. Tandems corner better than most singles under
>> the right riders until hairpin turns get a tighter radius than three times the wheelbase. Your
>> text is made of the myth and lore that gets handed around among people who have never tested any
>> of the theories proposed. It just sounds good to those who don't do it.

http://tinyurl.com/xaco

> Where is the place shown in the picture, and is it still unpaved?

That is the south side of the Tenda Pass on RTE SS20 on the Italian-French border. The road is
unchanged. It will stay that way because there is a tunnel down below that was built in the 19th
century when this route was an important north/south arterial.

Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

"Jay Beattie" <jbeattie@lindsayhart.com> writes:

> <jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org> wrote in message news:TUQyb.227$XF6.6997@typhoon.sonic.net...
>
>> http://tinyurl.com/xaco
>
> Jobst, where is the place shown in the picture, and is it still unpaved?

Looks like the Col de Tende, on the French-Italian border northeast of Nice.

bc_cletta@yahoo.com (B.C. Cletta) writes:

>> http://tinyurl.com/xaco
>>
>> > Where is the place shown in the picture, and is it still unpaved?
>>
>> That is the south side of the Tenda Pass on RTE SS20 on the Italian-French border. The road is
>> unchanged. It will stay that way
>
> my map shows some hairpins on D93/SP73 while SS20 is curvey. it doesn't indicate if paved or not.
> true, false? it also shows 'Olivetta' and 'San Michele', towns or ???

Now that I look at it, my Michelin 1:125 000 map (No. 06) doesn't even show the road over the pass,
only the N204 from France and the SS20 in Italy- no indication that there's any alternative to the
main road. Seems like an oversight to me!

There's more information and photos at:

http://www.cycling.uk.net/alps/south/tende.htm

> http://tinyurl.com/xaco
>
> > Where is the place shown in the picture, and is it still unpaved?
>
> That is the south side of the Tenda Pass on RTE SS20 on the Italian-French border. The road is
> unchanged. It will stay that way

my map shows some hairpins on D93/SP73 while SS20 is curvey. it doesn't indicate if paved or not.
true, false? it also shows 'Olivetta' and 'San Michele', towns or ???

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote in message news:<uu5zb.401$XF6.10114@typhoon.sonic.net>...
> Carl Fogel writes:
>
> >> Tandems corner better than most singles under the right riders until hairpin turns get a
> >> tighter radius than three times the wheelbase.
>
> > I think that I understand why a long wheelbase tandem will suffer in extremely tight turns, but
> > why do they corner better than ordinary bikes elsewhere?
>
> Steering movements make smaller changes in direction than with a short wheelbase. Taken close to
> the limit, I think it apparent that a theoretical wheelbase of a few inches would steer
> erratically. Besides, the long wheelbase makes the road smoother and braking results in less
> weight transfer.
>
> > Does the effect, whatever it is, scale up? That is, should the good guys in stretch limousines
> > be able to outcorner the assassins pursuing them in ordinary wheelbase cars?
>
> > Boffo as usual.
>
> Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

Dear Jobst,

Well, yes, once people like you point it out, it's apparent that a teeny-tiny wheelbase would steer
erratically.

But you have to be bright enough to point such things out, which is why people like me ask dumb--er,
pursue basic inquiries.

And I knew that! Damn! [Head-slap.] I've seen little radio-controlled model cars skittering down the
bicycle path, getting in my way as they twitch wildly.

I'm just not very good at connecting the obvious technical dots and easily puzzled. I'm pretty sure
that bicycle wheels stand on their tires, but some days they seem to hang from their valve stems.

Carl Fogel

Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote in message news:<m28ylspec8.fsf@bitstream.net>...
> bc_cletta@yahoo.com (B.C. Cletta) writes:
>
> >> http://tinyurl.com/xaco
> >>
> >> > Where is the place shown in the picture, and is it still unpaved?
> >>
> >> That is the south side of the Tenda Pass on RTE SS20 on the Italian-French border. The road is
> >> unchanged. It will stay that way
> >
> > my map shows some hairpins on D93/SP73 while SS20 is curvey. it doesn't indicate if paved or
> > not. true, false? it also shows 'Olivetta' and 'San Michele', towns or ???
>
> Now that I look at it, my Michelin 1:125 000 map (No. 06) doesn't even show the road over the
> pass, only the N204 from France and the SS20 in Italy- no indication that there's any alternative
> to the main road. Seems like an oversight to me!
>
> There's more information and photos at:
>
> http://www.cycling.uk.net/alps/south/tende.htm

i think it's the old road thru Airole & Collabassa that's now replaced by the tunnel. my map does
not show it as thru to both sides