Q RE: Drilling Head Tube

My Paramount TI (Serotta Concours)came without a badge. I recently found an old Schwinn Paramount
head badge and I as wondering if it would be safe/possible to drill the head tube for the screws.

I know, I know, there is such a thing as double-sided tape out there. But, to suit my vanity and to
insure it stays with the bike, I would like to attach it with screws.

Any recommendations as far as the drilling process itself IFF it is actually safe to do this?

TIA

App

In article <ac4af1d8.0312030947.78921ca2@posting.google.com>, Appkiller <petengail@yahoo.com> wrote:
>My Paramount TI (Serotta Concours)came without a badge. I recently found an old Schwinn Paramount
>head badge and I as wondering if it would be safe/possible to drill the head tube for the screws.
>
>I know, I know, there is such a thing as double-sided tape out there.

Or contact cement?

>But, to suit my vanity and to insure it stays with the bike, I would like to attach it with screws.
>
>Any recommendations as far as the drilling process itself IFF it is actually safe to do this?

A punch, a nice sharp drill bit, no problem. Your biggest risk will be scoring the tube if your bit
goes a-walking - there is no structural issue here.

--Paul

<< I know, I know, there is such a thing as double-sided tape out there. But, to suit my vanity and
to insure it stays with the bike, I would like to attach it with screws. >>

Double-stick tape's a bit crude, but a good epoxy glue will attach it permanently, and with a lot
less effort than trying to drill through a round titanium tube.

On 3 Dec 2003 09:47:00 -0800, petengail@yahoo.com (Appkiller) may have said:

>My Paramount TI (Serotta Concours)came without a badge. I recently found an old Schwinn Paramount
>head badge and I as wondering if it would be safe/possible to drill the head tube for the screws.
>
>I know, I know, there is such a thing as double-sided tape out there. But, to suit my vanity and to
>insure it stays with the bike, I would like to attach it with screws.
>
>Any recommendations as far as the drilling process itself IFF it is actually safe to do this?

Safe? For the frame, certainly.

Possible? Why yes, in theory, it's quite possible.

Is it easy to drill a hole in a titanium tube? Umm, no, not really. If you're going to try,
centerpunch it fairly deep, use a solid carbide bit with a very light solvent as the lube, and you
*might* be able to do it.

(The response "You want to do WHAT? Mwahahaha! Yes, by all means do, but please wait until a
suitable audience can arrive and get settled in for the performance, this should be fun to watch!"
had occurred to me, but I decided not to post it.)

(Yes, I've drilled titanium a couple of times; aircraft fasteners with countersunk triwing recess
heads sometimes yield to no other form of persuasion. Removing them is a vocabulary-intensive
procedure.)

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy. Words processed in a facility that
contains nuts.

Appkiller wrote:

> My Paramount TI (Serotta Concours)came without a badge. I recently found an old Schwinn Paramount
> head badge and I as wondering if it would be safe/possible to drill the head tube for the screws.
>
> I know, I know, there is such a thing as double-sided tape out there. But, to suit my vanity and
> to insure it stays with the bike, I would like to attach it with screws.
>
> Any recommendations as far as the drilling process itself IFF it is actually safe to do this?

Won't hurt a thing structurally. Easy to make it ugly. General advice:

Measure first. It looks crappy to have a half dozen holes on the front of your bike.

Use a centerpunch so your drill doesn't skip at the start

The usual 1/16" pop rivets are just _huge_ compared to the originals. Using a one inch steel bar
inside the head tube,(cups out) just about any soft metal such as a piece of brazing rod can make a
nice rivet. There's not a lot of clearance for a pop rivet head anyway.

Many many examples of double-sided tape under oem head badges.
--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

"Mike Krueger" <skubanut@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031203125803.28615.00000102@mb-m01.aol.com...

> << I know, I know, there is such a thing as double-sided tape out there. But, to suit my vanity
> and to insure it stays with the bike, I would like to attach it with screws. >>
>
> Double-stick tape's a bit crude, but a good epoxy glue will attach it permanently, and with a lot
> less effort than trying to drill through a round titanium tube.

Indeed it will. So will "auto trim adhesive," which will come off easier should that ever be
required. And it doesn't require mixing -- just squeeze it out of the tube.

But if you really want to stick it on there *good,* try 3M 5200. Epoxy, shmepoxy...

Matt O.

>But, to suit my vanity and to insure it stays with the bike, I would like to attach it with screws.

Rivets are traditional. Phil Brown

Werehatrack wrote:

> Is it easy to drill a hole in a titanium tube? Umm, no, not really. If you're going to try,
> centerpunch it fairly deep, use a solid carbide bit with a very light solvent as the lube, and you
> *might* be able to do it.
>
> (The response "You want to do WHAT? Mwahahaha! Yes, by all means do, but please wait until a
> suitable audience can arrive and get settled in for the performance, this should be fun to watch!"
> had occurred to me, but I decided not to post it.)
>
> (Yes, I've drilled titanium a couple of times; aircraft fasteners with countersunk triwing recess
> heads sometimes yield to no other form of persuasion. Removing them is a vocabulary-intensive
> procedure.)

Hmmm. We have had no problems at all drilling or filing or hacksawing titanium tube. (One year -
1993? - we trimmed a _lot_ of titanium MTB bars) The issues we've experienced are all with milling
bores and tapping. Titanium seems "sticky", much like brass or bronze.

I remember Gary Helfrich, Merlin's founder, showing a spiral eight-flute 27.2 seatpost reamer
snapped right in two- with the stump intractably still in the frame.

I have also seen titanium fasteners which are pretty darned tough. Like the difference between
drilling a steel frame tube and a steel graded allen bolt.
--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote in news:vsskpqioja22c6@corp.supernews.com:

> Appkiller wrote:
>
>> My Paramount TI (Serotta Concours)came without a badge. I recently found an old Schwinn Paramount
>> head badge and I as wondering if it would be safe/possible to drill the head tube for the screws.
>>
>> I know, I know, there is such a thing as double-sided tape out there. But, to suit my vanity and
>> to insure it stays with the bike, I would like to attach it with screws.
>>
>> Any recommendations as far as the drilling process itself IFF it is actually safe to do this?
>
>
> Won't hurt a thing structurally. Easy to make it ugly. General advice:
>
> Measure first. It looks crappy to have a half dozen holes on the front of your bike.
>
> Use a centerpunch so your drill doesn't skip at the start
>
> The usual 1/16" pop rivets are just _huge_ compared to the originals. Using a one inch steel bar
> inside the head tube,(cups out) just about any soft metal such as a piece of brazing rod can make
> a nice rivet. There's not a lot of clearance for a pop rivet head anyway.
>
> Many many examples of double-sided tape under oem head badges.

I used cable caps inserted from the inside, cut and spread with a punch.

<snip>
> Won't hurt a thing structurally. Easy to make it ugly. General advice:
>
> Measure first. It looks crappy to have a half dozen holes on the front of your bike.
<snip>

Good idea.

<snip>
> Use a centerpunch so your drill doesn't skip at the start
<snip>

Another good idea.

> The usual 1/16" pop rivets are just _huge_ compared to the originals.

Are the originals still available somewhere? If so, can you drill and put 'em in for me?

> Using a one inch steel bar inside the head tube,(cups out) just about any soft metal such as a
> piece of brazing rod can make a nice rivet. There's not a lot of clearance for a pop rivet
> head anyway.
>
> Many many examples of double-sided tape under oem head badges.

Any double-sticky tape or are there better varieties? This badge is pressed so there is a recess in
the back, making it difficult to size the thickness of the tape without an ugly result (but not as
ugly and irreversible as seven 1/16 inch holes in your headtube though).

Hmmmm....

App

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 01:29:03 -0600, A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> may have said:

>Hmmm. We have had no problems at all drilling or filing or hacksawing titanium tube. (One year -
>1993? - we trimmed a _lot_ of titanium MTB bars) The issues we've experienced are all with milling
>bores and tapping. Titanium seems "sticky", much like brass or bronze.

It might have been an alloy with a lot of other content, then. The near-pure Ti fasteners that gave
me holy hell were not pleasant to try to drill. I would not expect a high-Ti tube to be any more
cooperative. In the case of the fasteners, the drills would start just fine, but as soon as there
was any significant contact surface in the hole, the bit would grab the fastener and either break or
spin the piece.

>I remember Gary Helfrich, Merlin's founder, showing a spiral eight-flute 27.2 seatpost reamer
>snapped right in two- with the stump intractably still in the frame.
>
>I have also seen titanium fasteners which are pretty darned tough. Like the difference between
>drilling a steel frame tube and a steel graded allen bolt.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy. Words processed in a facility that
contains nuts.

-snip headbadge mount- (am)>>Many many examples of double-sided tape under oem head badges.

Appkiller wrote:
> Any double-sticky tape or are there better varieties? This badge is pressed so there is a recess
> in the back, making it difficult to size the thickness of the tape without an ugly result (but not
> as ugly and irreversible as seven 1/16 inch holes in your headtube though).

The foam type ( as used by major manufacturers now) is readily available. Got mine at Walgreens.

"3M Sctotch #114 Heavy Duty Mounting Tape holds 900g", says $4.49 package .

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971