MTB rigid fork

My wife will be taking a Jamis Exile (2003 all stock) eqipped with an Xtracycle on our touring
vacation this summer. The Exile is a Reynolds 520 chromoly frame with a Manitou Axel suspension fork
on it, and I was thinking she might like a rigid steel MTB fork for the trip. Any suggestions? I'd
like to buy something that can do some offroad duty, and be comfortable. Thanks!

I recommend the Ritchey cro-mo forks, although who knows how it might mess up the geometry of her
bike. These came on Ritchey P-23's and whatnot and the nicer Bridgestones and should be around and
available used as many of them were ignorantly swapped out for shocks back in the day. These cro-mo
forks last longer under heavy trail use than any suspension fork on the market, and the ride quality
is excellent.

Robert

In article <pan.2004.01.03.19.42.30.542829@cox.net>,
Dave Carroll <dccarrollNOSPAM@cox.net> wrote:

> My wife will be taking a Jamis Exile (2003 all stock) eqipped with an Xtracycle on our touring
> vacation this summer. The Exile is a Reynolds 520 chromoly frame with a Manitou Axel suspension
> fork on it, and I was thinking she might like a rigid steel MTB fork for the trip. Any
> suggestions? I'd like to buy something that can do some offroad duty, and be comfortable. Thanks!

Comfort (suspension effects) is not a function of rigid forks. Use tire pressure to regulate front-
end comfort, or maybe a suspension stem.

Aside from that, the good news is that steel rigid forks are incredibly cheap and widely available.
Look for a "suspension corrected" fork: your frame is designed for the extra 3-4" of height a
suspension fork adds (versus the shortest rigid fork possible). Most current rigid forks are
corrected, but old forks (such as might come from the nearest old MTB) are not.

http://www.bikeman.com/miva/merchant...Code=BOS&Categ ory_Code=SSFK

Prices from $41-120. Note that some of these forks have either disc or cantilever mounts, and the
Surly 1x1 has both. I favour the Kona Project 2 fork, but only because it's big and tough looking,
and Kona is both a local company (to me) and has a rep for building their stuff big and tough (my
MTB is an old steel Kona, but with a Z.2 on it).

No endorsement of that vendor, BTW: they just came up in Google as having a decent selection. You
can probably find a cheaper fork at your local LBSes if you shop around.

"local LBS." Yeah, I know,
--
Ryan Cousineau, rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

Look this up: http://www.viciouscycles.com/index.php3 They make a great rigid fork.

Gary Jacobson Rosendale, NY

"Dave Carroll" <dccarrollNOSPAM@cox.net> wrote in message
newsan.2004.01.03.19.42.30.542829@cox.net...
> My wife will be taking a Jamis Exile (2003 all stock) eqipped with an Xtracycle on our touring
> vacation this summer. The Exile is a Reynolds 520 chromoly frame with a Manitou Axel suspension
> fork on it, and I was thinking she might like a rigid steel MTB fork for the trip. Any
> suggestions? I'd like to buy something that can do some offroad duty, and be comfortable. Thanks!

Dave Carroll wrote:

> My wife will be taking a Jamis Exile (2003 all stock) eqipped with an Xtracycle on our touring
> vacation this summer. The Exile is a Reynolds 520 chromoly frame with a Manitou Axel suspension
> fork on it, and I was thinking she might like a rigid steel MTB fork for the trip.

Did you ask her about this? I can't imagine why she would want to make the bike less comfortable to
got touring.

Indeed, with the Xtracycle, she'll get even more benefit from the boingy fork than she would without
it, and it's hard for me to believe any Xtracycle user is a weight weenie! ;-)

> Any suggestions? I'd like to buy something that can do some offroad duty, and be comfortable.

No rigid fork will be as comfortable or offroad-worthy as her boinger.

My advice is to buy her a pair of SPD sandals instead.

Sheldon "Why?" Brown +--------------------------------------------------+
| The less you bet, the more you lose if you win | --Alan Rudolph (_Trixie_) |
+--------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

> Did you ask her about this? I can't imagine why she would want to make the bike less comfortable
> to got touring.
>
> Indeed, with the Xtracycle, she'll get even more benefit from the boingy fork than she would
> without it, and it's hard for me to believe any Xtracycle user is a weight weenie! ;-)
>
>> Any suggestions? I'd like to buy something that can do some offroad duty, and be comfortable.
>
> No rigid fork will be as comfortable or offroad-worthy as her boinger.
>
> My advice is to buy her a pair of SPD sandals instead.
>
> Sheldon "Why?" Brown

That's a good question; she brought it up first, because she was concerned about how the fork's bob
on a tour. She thought it might be nice to have a rigid fork around to try racing cross next season,
until she has a real cross bike. I don't think she was thinking about weight at all, I think it was
about the suspension sucking up some of her force when riding. Is that not a real problem while
touring? She brought the matter up casually, and we forgot about it. Recently, though, I was
thinking about how I'll be on a cross bike (pulling a trailer) and I didn't want her to feel
disadvantaged by the Manitou fork.

I'm sure she would LOVE those sandals. Once I mention them to her, I'm sure she'll get them, too!

> Comfort (suspension effects) is not a function of rigid forks. Use tire pressure to regulate front-
> end comfort, or maybe a suspension stem.
>
> Aside from that, the good news is that steel rigid forks are incredibly cheap and widely
> available. Look for a "suspension corrected" fork: your frame is designed for the extra 3-4" of
> height a suspension fork adds (versus the shortest rigid fork possible). Most current rigid forks
> are corrected, but old forks (such as might come from the nearest old MTB) are not.
>
> http://www.bikeman.com/miva/merchant...Code=BOS&Categ ory_Code=SSFK
>
> Prices from $41-120. Note that some of these forks have either disc or cantilever mounts, and the
> Surly 1x1 has both. I favour the Kona Project 2 fork, but only because it's big and tough looking,
> and Kona is both a local company (to me) and has a rep for building their stuff big and tough (my
> MTB is an old steel Kona, but with a Z.2 on it).
>
> No endorsement of that vendor, BTW: they just came up in Google as having a decent selection. You
> can probably find a cheaper fork at your local LBSes if you shop around.
>
> "local LBS." Yeah, I know,

Thanks! I'm interested in the Surly or Kona fork, but I was wondering if swapping from a Manitou
suspension fork to one of these would affect the bike's geometry much, or at all? I've never done
this, so the answer might be obvious, but I don't know.

In article <3FF731E3.9020805@sheldonbrown.com>,
Sheldon Brown <CaptBike@sheldonbrown.com> wrote:

> Dave Carroll wrote:
>
> > My wife will be taking a Jamis Exile (2003 all stock) eqipped with an Xtracycle on our touring
> > vacation this summer. The Exile is a Reynolds 520 chromoly frame with a Manitou Axel suspension
> > fork on it, and I was thinking she might like a rigid steel MTB fork for the trip.
>
> Did you ask her about this? I can't imagine why she would want to make the bike less comfortable
> to got touring.
>
> Indeed, with the Xtracycle, she'll get even more benefit from the boingy fork than she would
> without it, and it's hard for me to believe any Xtracycle user is a weight weenie! ;-)

> No rigid fork will be as comfortable or offroad-worthy as her boinger.
>
> My advice is to buy her a pair of SPD sandals instead.
>
> Sheldon "Why?" Brown

I think we're making suggestions at cross-purposes, Sheldon, because we're assuming different things
about this touring vacation.

I assumed from the wording this was going to be primarily a pavement excursion, and you're clearly
worried about going off-road on the bike.

For on-road use, I'm doubtful that the suspension would be worth the pedalling inefficiencies,
though I don't know the Axel fork (seems to be a cheap but functional coil/oil fork). I know from my
occasional on-road riding with my MTB that the suspension fork is a mild but persistent annoyance
when pedalling hard.

For off-road use, I'd think the Xtracycle would be the bigger problem, but SPD sandals for off-
roading? That seems like a bad idea for any trail gnarly enough to be improved by a suspension fork.
Then again, I just bought a pair of high-ankle AXO Vertigo downhiller shoes, primarily for commuting
duties, so maybe I don't have much to say on the subject of appropriate footwear.

What the heck, they were $20,
--
Ryan Cousineau, rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

In article <pan.2004.01.03.21.55.42.169704@cox.net>,
Dave Carroll <dccarrollNOSPAM@cox.net> wrote:

> > Comfort (suspension effects) is not a function of rigid forks. Use tire pressure to regulate front-
> > end comfort, or maybe a suspension stem.
> >
> > Aside from that, the good news is that steel rigid forks are incredibly cheap and widely
> > available. Look for a "suspension corrected" fork: your frame is designed for the extra 3-4" of
> > height a suspension fork adds (versus the shortest rigid fork possible). Most current rigid
> > forks are corrected, but old forks (such as might come from the nearest old MTB) are not.
> >
> > http://www.bikeman.com/miva/merchant...Code=BOS&Categ ory_Code=SSFK
> >
> > Prices from $41-120. Note that some of these forks have either disc or cantilever mounts, and
> > the Surly 1x1 has both. I favour the Kona Project 2 fork, but only because it's big and tough
> > looking, and Kona is both a local company (to me) and has a rep for building their stuff big and
> > tough (my MTB is an old steel Kona, but with a Z.2 on it).
> >
> > No endorsement of that vendor, BTW: they just came up in Google as having a decent selection.
> > You can probably find a cheaper fork at your local LBSes if you shop around.
> >
> > "local LBS." Yeah, I know,
>
> Thanks! I'm interested in the Surly or Kona fork, but I was wondering if swapping from a Manitou
> suspension fork to one of these would affect the bike's geometry much, or at all? I've never done
> this, so the answer might be obvious, but I don't know.

No. A "suspension-corrected" rigid fork is designed to be tall enough to match the height of the
original suspension fork. Almost all modern MTBs, even those supplied with a rigid fork, use
"suspension" geometry, and all recent rigid forks (except those designed specifically for old non-
suspension bikes) are designed to not change the geometry.

--
Ryan Cousineau, rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

> No. A "suspension-corrected" rigid fork is designed to be tall enough to match the height of the
> original suspension fork. Almost all modern MTBs, even those supplied with a rigid fork, use
> "suspension" geometry, and all recent rigid forks (except those designed specifically for old non-
> suspension bikes) are designed to not change the geometry.

That's good to know. I found a Surly fork for about $60 bucks, so I think I'll go for that, unless I
see a decent one for less. Since the vast vast majority of the trip will be on-road, I'm sure it
will help.

> For off-road use, I'd think the Xtracycle would be the bigger problem, but SPD sandals for off-
> roading? That seems like a bad idea for any trail gnarly enough to be improved by a suspension
> fork. Then again, I just bought a pair of high-ankle AXO Vertigo downhiller shoes, primarily for
> commuting duties, so maybe I don't have much to say on the subject of appropriate footwear.
>
> What the heck, they were $20,

Most of the people I know with Xtracycles use them primarily off-road, and I think it's just
fine on the singletrack when I ride that bike. But you're right, almost all of our riding will
be on the road.

Dave Carroll wrote:

> My wife will be taking a Jamis Exile (2003 all stock) eqipped with an Xtracycle on our touring
> vacation this summer. The Exile is a Reynolds 520 chromoly frame with a Manitou Axel suspension
> fork on it, and I was thinking she might like a rigid steel MTB fork for the trip. Any
> suggestions? I'd like to buy something that can do some offroad duty, and be comfortable.

Kona Project Two - they're still available. Whether it's comfortable or not is a matter of opinion.

Ryan Cousineau wrote:

> In article <3FF731E3.9020805@sheldonbrown.com>,
> Sheldon Brown <CaptBike@sheldonbrown.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Dave Carroll wrote:
>>
>>>My wife will be taking a Jamis Exile (2003 all stock) eqipped with an Xtracycle on our touring
>>>vacation this summer. The Exile is a Reynolds 520 chromoly frame with a Manitou Axel suspension
>>>fork on it, and I was thinking she might like a rigid steel MTB fork for the trip.

I asked:

>>Did you ask her about this? I can't imagine why she would want to make the bike less comfortable
>>to got touring.
>>
>>Indeed, with the Xtracycle, she'll get even more benefit from the boingy fork than she would
>>without it, and it's hard for me to believe any Xtracycle user is a weight weenie! ;-)
>
>
>>No rigid fork will be as comfortable or offroad-worthy as her boinger.
>>
>>My advice is to buy her a pair of SPD sandals instead.

Ryan Cousineau wrote:

> I think we're making suggestions at cross-purposes, Sheldon, because we're assuming different
> things about this touring vacation.
>
> I assumed from the wording this was going to be primarily a pavement excursion, and you're clearly
> worried about going off-road on the bike.

Nope, I also suppposed it would be primarily on road, with, perhaps a bit of incidental light duty
dirt road riding.

> For on-road use, I'm doubtful that the suspension would be worth the pedalling inefficiencies,

I'm not aware of such inefficiencies, if the rider has a smooth riding style.

> though I don't know the Axel fork (seems to be a cheap but functional coil/oil fork). I know from
> my occasional on-road riding with my MTB that the suspension fork is a mild but persistent
> annoyance when pedalling hard.

Touring cyclists don't generally pedal hard, they use their gears to conserve their physical
resources.

> For off-road use, I'd think the Xtracycle would be the bigger problem, but SPD sandals for
> off-roading? That seems like a bad idea for any trail gnarly enough to be improved by a
> suspension fork.

I wouldn't recommend them for gnarly trails through the underbrush, but for touring they
can't be beat.

Any imperfect road surface can be improved by a suspension fork, however.

Sheldon "Comfort vs Speed" Brown +-----------------------------------+
| Habit is the nursery of errors. | --Victor Hugo |
+-----------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772
FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

In article <3FF87B3B.2010002@sheldonbrown.com>,
Sheldon Brown <CaptBike@sheldonbrown.com> wrote:

> Ryan Cousineau, in part:
> >
> >> For on-road use, I'm doubtful that the suspension would be worth the pedalling inefficiencies,
>
> I replied
>
> > I'm not aware of such inefficiencies, if the rider has a smooth riding style >>
>
> Someone who didn't want to reveal his secret identity replied:
>
> > Front suspension can be an annoyance for those of us who like to stand out of the saddle. This
> > is true not only on roads but on smooth trails as well.
>
> That's true, but this was for a _touring_ application. Touring cyclists don't stand and honk so
> much. They also can get greater benefit from the comfort of suspension, as they tend to ride for
> longer stretches of time.

How much comfort would you expect a suspension to supply on normal roads? I would have thought that
marginally fat tires were overkill for anything besides rutted gravel roads.

I don't have any touring experience, but the 5-hour rides I have done were acceptably comfortable
with 20-25 mm tires, and I ended with more butt problems than hand problems.

I'm into geeky racing applications, so I will try to limit my opinions in this matter .
--
Ryan Cousineau, rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca> writes:

> In article <3FF87B3B.2010002@sheldonbrown.com>,
> Sheldon Brown <CaptBike@sheldonbrown.com> wrote:
>
> > Ryan Cousineau, in part:
> > >
> > >> For on-road use, I'm doubtful that the suspension would be worth the pedalling
> > >> inefficiencies,
> >
> > I replied
> >
> > > I'm not aware of such inefficiencies, if the rider has a smooth riding style >>
> >
> > Someone who didn't want to reveal his secret identity replied:
> >
> > > Front suspension can be an annoyance for those of us who like to stand out of the saddle. This
> > > is true not only on roads but on smooth trails as well.
> >
> > That's true, but this was for a _touring_ application. Touring cyclists don't stand and honk so
> > much. They also can get greater benefit from the comfort of suspension, as they tend to ride for
> > longer stretches of time.
>
> How much comfort would you expect a suspension to supply on normal roads? I would have thought
> that marginally fat tires were overkill for anything besides rutted gravel roads.
>
> I don't have any touring experience, but the 5-hour rides I have done were acceptably comfortable
> with 20-25 mm tires, and I ended with more butt problems than hand problems.

Depends a lot on the road surface you're riding on. I know some tarmac roads (OK, in a poor state,
but still tarmac) that are unridable with 20mm tyres.

--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

do not sail on uphill water
- Bill Lee