Climbing Trivia - Page 2

Terry Morse <tmorse@spamcop.net> wrote:
>But you're right: climbing the equivalent grade of a stairway on a normal bike would be impossible.
>It might be possible, if a special bike were designed that fixed the low speed stability problem
>(and it had very low gears).

A recumbent trike is stable at any speed, and tends to have quite low gears; one designed for towing
really heavy trailers will have enormously low gears. I've seen a 3x7 rear hub/derailleur
combination hooked into a Mountain Drive; that gives a pretty low low gear.

Obviously with heavy cargo, walking is no longer an option uphill.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?

Peter <prathman@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<lGKPb.102473$nt4.320208@attbi_s51>...
> Terry Morse wrote:
> > David L. Johnson wrote:
> >>It's humiliating, but I have had the experience of runners being able to overtake me on a very
> >>steep hill that I was climbing on my bike. The steeper it is, the more likely the runner/climber
> >>will win.
> >
> > I this this is the case of a strong runner passing a less strong cyclist. On steep grades (and
> > thus low speeds), an equally fit runner and cyclist should be close. After all, excluding the
> > weight of the bike (which is pretty small as a percentage of the total mass)

Not necessarily. A podgy runner in a devil costume and carrying a trident can keep pace with the
strongest climbers of the Tour de France over some short steep sections.

--
Dave...

The best times I've found from past years are approximately 58 minutes being the best time for
running, and approximately 49 minutes being the best time for riding. The steepest grade is 22% at
the top but there are extended grades of 18%. Average is 12% for the entire race.

MOO, Matt

Terry Morse wrote:

>Sheldon Brown wrote:
>
>
>
>>Up in New Hampshire, they have a hill climb event up Mt. Washington.
>>
>>
>
>7.6 miles, 12% grade. Based on the climbing rate of the best of the best cyclists, I'm going to
> guess the best overall time is right around 50 minutes. Am I close?
>--
>terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/

Mark Janeba wrote:
> Terry Morse wrote:
>> The question came up on a ride the other day: can one climb stairs on foot faster than on a
>> road bike?
>
> I find it difficult to get enough traction on stairs with my road bike.
>
> Mark Janeba
Why are you using your road bike? You need to use a MTB!

FWIW, the record for climbing the eiffel tower by bike is 19 minutes.
http://www.dhamurian.egympie.com.au/...ffelcycle.html

He also has the record for number of steps climbed in an hour (1600).

In article <400F62DB.7020105@sheldonbrown.com>,
Sheldon Brown <CaptBike@sheldonbrown.com> wrote:

> Up in New Hampshire, they have a hill climb event up Mt. Washington.
>
> The first time this race was run, it was won by local hero John Allis, but his time was slower
> than the record for a runner on the same course!
>
> He was using a regular steel racing bike, with his normal gearing. Subsequently, folks have been
> setting bikes up more specifically for this event, and the pedestrians are no longer in the
> running.

Locally, we have a beer-league mountain bike racing series (the "Twoonie Races") where one of
the races goes around Buntzen lake. About half the course consists of steep switchback ascents
and descents. A trail-running co-worker noted that it was a trail where the runners could
outpace the cyclists

But that's on dirt,
--
Ryan Cousineau, rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

Terry Morse wrote:

> The question came up on a ride the other day: can one climb stairs on foot faster than on a
> road bike?
>
> The answer I found, after some googling, is that the winner is too close to call. The fastest time
> to climb the Empire State Building to the 86th floor is just under 10 minutes, which is a climb
> rate of 100 feet/minute.
>
> Pantani's record climb of Mt. Ventoux was done in about 25 minutes, giving a climb rate of 95
> feet/minute. Pretty close. Ventoux is windy and has a variable grade. A road with less wind and a
> more consistent grade should produce an even higher climb rate.

Did Pantani's record climb come at the end of a 4-5 hour race? Wouldn't that tend to have an effect
on his uphill speed?

Dave dvt at psu dot edu

Terry Morse wrote:
> The question came up on a ride the other day: can one climb stairs on foot faster than on a
> road bike?
>
> The answer I found, after some googling, is that the winner is too close to call. The fastest time
> to climb the Empire State Building to the 86th floor is just under 10 minutes, which is a climb
> rate of 100 feet/minute.
>
> Pantani's record climb of Mt. Ventoux was done in about 25 minutes, giving a climb rate of 95
> feet/minute. Pretty close. Ventoux is windy and has a variable grade. A road with less wind and a
> more consistent grade should produce an even higher climb rate.

I seem to recall a thread similar to this a year or two ago. The consensus was that the cyclist had
an advantage up to some particular gradient. Above that, the walker/runner had the advantage.

Art Harris

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In article <pan.2004.01.22.05.11.31.421609@lehigh.edu>, David L. Johnson
<david.johnson@lehigh.edu> wrote:
>On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 01:00:23 +0000, Phil Holman wrote:
>
>> Probably the runner improves relatively as the grade gets steeper.
>
>Take this to the logical limit. You can climb a ladder, even with a bike on your shoulder. No way
>could you ride it.
>
>It's humiliating, but I have had the experience of runners being able to overtake me on a very
>steep hill that I was climbing on my bike. The steeper it is, the more likely the runner/climber
>will win.
>

_ There is a good place to test this for yourself. The Mount Washington Auto Road, there is both a
running race and a bike race up it. It has been quite some time since I did them, but I recall being
only slightly faster on the bike.

It's 8miles with an average grade of 12%. I'm pretty sure the running and biking records are
fairly close.

_ Booker C. Bense

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In article <400F62DB.7020105@sheldonbrown.com>, Sheldon Brown <CaptBike@sheldonbrown.com> wrote:
>Up in New Hampshire, they have a hill climb event up Mt. Washington.
>
>The first time this race was run, it was won by local hero John Allis, but his time was slower than
>the record for a runner on the same course!
>
>He was using a regular steel racing bike, with his normal gearing. Subsequently, folks have
>been setting bikes up more specifically for this event, and the pedestrians are no longer in
>the running.
>

_ I the '80s I did both events. My bike time was only slightly faster than the running one, but I
remember it being much more of a struggle.

_ Booker C. Bense

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In article <tmorse-1D2557.15272521012004@news.covad.net>, tmorse@spamcop.net says...
>The question came up on a ride the other day: can one climb stairs on foot faster than on a road
>bike? The answer I found, after some googling, is that the winner is too close to call. The fastest
>time to climb the Empire State Building to the 86th floor is just under 10 minutes, which is a
>climb rate of 100 feet/minute. Pantani's record climb of Mt. Ventoux was done in about 25 minutes,
>giving a climb rate of 95 feet/minute. Pretty close. Ventoux is windy and has a variable grade. A
>road with less wind and a more consistent grade should produce an even higher climb rate.

Not really a fair comaparison since one climb took 2.5 times longer than the other one. Someone who
is going all out will pace themselves to give the maximum effort for the amount of time they expect
to be working. So it would be fairer to compare the ESB climb to a shorter bike climb.
-------------
Alex

dvt writes:

> Terry Morse wrote:
>
>> The question came up on a ride the other day: can one climb stairs on foot faster than on a
>> road bike?
>>
>> The answer I found, after some googling, is that the winner is too close to call. The fastest
>> time to climb the Empire State Building to the 86th floor is just under 10 minutes, which is a
>> climb rate of 100 feet/minute.
>>
>> Pantani's record climb of Mt. Ventoux was done in about 25 minutes, giving a climb rate of 95
>> feet/minute. Pretty close. Ventoux is windy and has a variable grade. A road with less wind and a
>> more consistent grade should produce an even higher climb rate.
>
> Did Pantani's record climb come at the end of a 4-5 hour race? Wouldn't that tend to have an
> effect on his uphill speed?

Let's not forget the fact that Pantani was juiced. That would certainly tend to have an effect on
his uphill speed.

On 22 Jan 2004 00:53:34 -0800, Carl Fogel wrote:

> The posts on this have been quite interesting.
>
> Whichever way it works out, however, I cheer myself up by remembering that we win hands-down on
> the descent without even pedalling.

Not if the runner was also a BASE jumper....

--
Alan Hoyle - alanh@unc.edu - http://www.alanhoyle.com/ "I don't want the world, I just want your
half." -TMBG Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate.

Carl Fogel wrote:

> Whichever way it works out, however, I cheer myself up by remembering that we win hands-down on
> the descent without even pedalling.

For the same reason, touring on skis beats snowshoes for the same reason. A snowshoer can climb at a
steeper angle, but we skiers whiz by them on the descent.

I couldn't find any data on fastest climbing rates on skis, but I've heard some folks can climb at
50 ft/min. I'm pretty happy to average 30-35, according to my gps.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/

Terry Morse wrote:
> David L. Johnson wrote:
>
>
>>It's humiliating, but I have had the experience of runners being able to overtake me on a very
>>steep hill that I was climbing on my bike. The steeper it is, the more likely the runner/climber
>>will win.
>
>
> I this this is the case of a strong runner passing a less strong cyclist. On steep grades (and
> thus low speeds), an equally fit runner and cyclist should be close. After all, excluding the
> weight of the bike (which is pretty small as a percentage of the total mass), the runner and
> cyclist are doing the same amount of work to get up the hill.
> --
> terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/

What about the efficiency of the bicycle? Runners bear their own weight, requiring more fuel for
muscles that a cyclist doesn't use (nearly as much). A well-adapted cycling body is potentially more
efficient than a well-adapted runner's body.

Or am I woefully ignorant? I just know it's been a long time since a runner passed me on any slope,
road or trail. (When I want a long, steep climb, I get the mountain bike out. There are several
WAG'd 1+ mile 20%-ers around here.)

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"We should not march into Baghdad. ... Assigning young soldiers to
a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning
them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerilla war, it
could only plunge that part of the world into ever greater
instability." George Bush Sr. in his 1998 book "A World Transformed"

Dave Kahn wrote:
> Peter <prathman@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<lGKPb.102473$nt4.320208@attbi_s51>...
>
>>Terry Morse wrote:
>>
>>>David L. Johnson wrote:
>>>
>>>>It's humiliating, but I have had the experience of runners being able to overtake me on a very
>>>>steep hill that I was climbing on my bike. The steeper it is, the more likely the runner/climber
>>>>will win.
>>>
>>>I this this is the case of a strong runner passing a less strong cyclist. On steep grades (and
>>>thus low speeds), an equally fit runner and cyclist should be close. After all, excluding the
>>>weight of the bike (which is pretty small as a percentage of the total mass)
>
>
> Not necessarily. A podgy runner in a devil costume and carrying a trident can keep pace with the
> strongest climbers of the Tour de France over some short steep sections.
>

So an out-of-shape guy can go faster in a short sprint than a great rider who has been riding for
hours that day, and likely for many previous days. Likewise, almost anybody could outrun the best
marathon runners, when the marathoner is maintaining his pace and the other guy is sprinting some
short distance. All this shows is that ordinary people can produce more power for short anerobic
efforts than great athletes can maintain for hours.

On the original question of the Empire State climb vs Mt Ventoux, I suspect more great athletes have
attempted Ventoux, but that the shorter time and lack of weight of even a light bike makes the climb
rate up the stairs faster, even if the stairclimber wasn't quite as fit as Pantani.

Dave Lehnen