has anyone got a SunTour 14-34 rear to work with a 20-32-42
Suntour ?? got the 38 on eBay and was told that I need a AG
der or Duet (?). Best to find someone that got this working.

I have a 34 rear and a 22 front on a 27" bike that works but
I would like to get the lowest gear possible (I have a bad
right leg) to build a 26" or 700c

thanks

Willy Smallboy <soreass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>has anyone got a SunTour 14-34 rear to work with a 20-32-42
>Suntour ?? got the 38 on eBay and was told that I need a AG
>der or Duet (?).

I think it is probably worth trying a 38 with an ordinary
Shimano long-cage rear derailleur. There's a certain amount
of elbow room on mine with a 34...

>I have a 34 rear and a 22 front on a 27" bike that works
>but I would like to get the lowest gear possible (I have a
>bad right leg)

If you have a large budget, perhaps you should consider a
Schlumpf Mountain Drive - an internally geared bottom
bracket that can be direct drive or effect a 2.5:1
reduction; with a less large budget the SRAM rear hubs that
mount a conventional 9s derailleur rear on a 3-speed hub
might also be worth a try.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?

Willy Smallboy <soreass@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<ml6o40hur0k3l2268lmghrogiaer466ctk@4ax.com>...
> has anyone got a SunTour 14-34 rear to work with a 20-32-
> 42 Suntour ?? got the 38 on eBay and was told that I need
> a AG der or Duet (?). Best to find someone that got this
> working.
>
> I have a 34 rear and a 22 front on a 27" bike that works
> but I would like to get the lowest gear possible (I have a
> bad right leg) to build a 26" or 700c
>
> thanks

Not a direct answer to your question, but this is
rec.bicycles! I use a 20 tooth inner chainring with a 34
tooth rear cog. 7 speed Shimano. Deore DX derailleurs from
1991. Bar end shifters. The 20 tooth is via an Avid adaptor
that allows 58mm bcd rings to go on a crankset with 74mm
bcd. This setup works very nice on my Trek 520. I did put in
a longer B screw and had my brother build up and extend the
rear derailleur tab with a welder so the longer B screw did
not slip off the flat. The rear derailleur pulley was
hitting the big cog before this frame modification. I think
something similar would be required to get a 38 cog to work.

As for using a 38 cog in the back, I'm not sure there is
much reason. A 20x34 with a 700C wheeled bike with 35mm
tires gives 16 gear inches. On a 26" mountain bike wheel
with 1.25" tires and 20x34, the gearing is about 14.5 gear
inches. Figuring a 24.5" diameter for the skinnier 26"
wheels. A 20x38 gear on a 700C bike will give 14.2 gear
inches. A 20x38 gear on a 26" bike with 1.25" skinny tires
will give 13 gear inches.

We're talking about a difference of 1.8 gear inches on the
700C wheeled bike between 20x34 and 20x38. And a difference
of 1.5 gear inches on the 26" 1.25" width tire bike between
20x34 and 20x38. Not enough difference to matter. Your
current low gear of 22x34 on a 27" wheel bike gives 17.5
gear inches.

I've never seen a 38 rear cog. Does someone make one for a Cassette, or are they only available on a freewheel?

__________________
John McCarthy

The 38 tooth Suntour cog came on the 5 speed AG freewheel
which was sold with the AG rear derailleur which was
designed to shift over that big cog. In 1982 I bought a
Schwinn Sidewinder mountain bike which came with this
freewheel and rear derailleur setup. The freewheel was 14-17-22-28-
38 but the 38 tooth cog would fit on any other Suntour
freewheel.

I used a freewheel with this 38 tooth cog and a Huret Duopar
rear derailleur on my 1985 Cannondale ST400 touring bike.
This combination worked just fine but I should mention that
this Cannondale has a very long derailleur tab. Bikes with
the more usual tab length may not work with this
combination.

A 26" rear wheel with a 1 1/4 tire will lower your bottom
gear by a bit over 10% and the 38 tooth cog will lower it by
a bit over 11%.

If you already have a Suntour freewheel you could take the
cogs off and install the 38 in place of the largest one,
reassemble it, and see if it works with the rear derailleur
you have. You can use the B adjustment screw to some extent
to make a larger cog work but shift quality suffers if you
overdo that.

Bob Taylor

Willy Smallboy <soreass@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<ml6o40hur0k3l2268lmghrogiaer466ctk@4ax.com>...
> has anyone got a SunTour 14-34 rear to work with a 20-32-
> 42 Suntour ?? got the 38 on eBay and was told that I need
> a AG der or Duet (?). Best to find someone that got this
> working.
>
> I have a 34 rear and a 22 front on a 27" bike that works
> but I would like to get the lowest gear possible (I have a
> bad right leg) to build a 26" or 700c
>
> thanks

russellseaton1@yahoo.com (Russell Seaton) wrote in message news:<e90052be.0403080719.30808594@posting.google.com>...
> Willy Smallboy <soreass@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:<ml6o40hur0k3l2268lmghrogiaer466ctk@4ax.com>...
> > has anyone got a SunTour 14-34 rear to work with a 20-32-
> > 42 Suntour ?? got the 38 on eBay and was told that I
> > need a AG der or Duet (?). Best to find someone that got
> > this working.
> >
> > I have a 34 rear and a 22 front on a 27" bike that works
> > but I would like to get the lowest gear possible (I have
> > a bad right leg) to build a 26" or 700c
> >
> > thanks
>
> Not a direct answer to your question, but this is
> rec.bicycles! I use a 20 tooth inner chainring with a 34
> tooth rear cog. 7 speed Shimano. Deore DX derailleurs from
> 1991. Bar end shifters. The 20 tooth is via an Avid
> adaptor that allows 58mm bcd rings to go on a crankset
> with 74mm bcd. This setup works very nice on my Trek 520.
> I did put in a longer B screw and had my brother build up
> and extend the rear derailleur tab with a welder so the
> longer B screw did not slip off the flat. The rear
> derailleur pulley was hitting the big cog before this
> frame modification. I think something similar would be
> required to get a 38 cog to work.
>
> As for using a 38 cog in the back, I'm not sure there is
> much reason. A 20x34 with a 700C wheeled bike with 35mm
> tires gives 16 gear inches. On a 26" mountain bike wheel
> with 1.25" tires and 20x34, the gearing is about 14.5 gear
> inches. Figuring a 24.5" diameter for the skinnier 26"
> wheels. A 20x38 gear on a 700C bike will give 14.2 gear
> inches. A 20x38 gear on a 26" bike with 1.25" skinny tires
> will give 13 gear inches.
>
> We're talking about a difference of 1.8 gear inches on the
> 700C wheeled bike between 20x34 and 20x38. And a
> difference of 1.5 gear inches on the 26" 1.25" width tire
> bike between 20x34 and 20x38. Not enough difference to
> matter. Your current low gear of 22x34 on a 27" wheel bike
> gives 17.5 gear inches.

Dear Russell,

When the gear-inches are so small, it's hard to remember
that apparently tiny differences become important. You may
have lost sight of the forest for the trees.

Given the same crank length, rear wheel size, and front
sprocket teeth, replacing a 34-tooth rear cog with a 38-
tooth will provide an 11.8% increase in overall
mechanical advantage, which is likely to be quite
noticeable on steep hills.

Carl Fogel

Interesting I will check into a der with a 3-speed hub

On 08 Mar 2004 14:25:24 +0000 (GMT), David Damerell
<damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

>Willy Smallboy <soreass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>has anyone got a SunTour 14-34 rear to work with a 20-32-
>>42 Suntour ?? got the 38 on eBay and was told that I need
>>a AG der or Duet (?).
>
>I think it is probably worth trying a 38 with an ordinary
>Shimano long-cage rear derailleur. There's a certain amount
>of elbow room on mine with a 34...
>
>>I have a 34 rear and a 22 front on a 27" bike that works
>>but I would like to get the lowest gear possible (I have a
>>bad right leg)
>
>If you have a large budget, perhaps you should consider a
>Schlumpf Mountain Drive - an internally geared bottom
>bracket that can be direct drive or effect a 2.5:1
>reduction; with a less large budget the SRAM rear hubs that
>mount a conventional 9s derailleur rear on a 3-speed hub
>might also be worth a try.

pretty much leaning towards what you have done I have been
out of biking for 30 years so I learning all over again

On 8 Mar 2004 07:19:48 -0800, russellseaton1@yahoo.com
(Russell Seaton) wrote:

>Willy Smallboy <soreass@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:<ml6o40hur0k3l2268lmghrogiaer466ctk@4ax.com>...
>> has anyone got a SunTour 14-34 rear to work with a 20-32-
>> 42 Suntour ?? got the 38 on eBay and was told that I need
>> a AG der or Duet (?). Best to find someone that got this
>> working.
>>
>> I have a 34 rear and a 22 front on a 27" bike that works
>> but I would like to get the lowest gear possible (I have
>> a bad right leg) to build a 26" or 700c
>>
>> thanks
>
>Not a direct answer to your question, but this is
>rec.bicycles! I use a 20 tooth inner chainring with a 34
>tooth rear cog. 7 speed Shimano. Deore DX derailleurs from
>1991. Bar end shifters. The 20 tooth is via an Avid
>adaptor that allows 58mm bcd rings to go on a crankset
>with 74mm bcd. This setup works very nice on my Trek 520.
>I did put in a longer B screw and had my brother build up
>and extend the rear derailleur tab with a welder so the
>longer B screw did not slip off the flat. The rear
>derailleur pulley was hitting the big cog before this
>frame modification. I think something similar would be
>required to get a 38 cog to work.
>
>As for using a 38 cog in the back, I'm not sure there is
>much reason. A 20x34 with a 700C wheeled bike with 35mm
>tires gives 16 gear inches. On a 26" mountain bike wheel
>with 1.25" tires and 20x34, the gearing is about 14.5 gear
>inches. Figuring a 24.5" diameter for the skinnier 26"
>wheels. A 20x38 gear on a 700C bike will give 14.2 gear
>inches. A 20x38 gear on a 26" bike with 1.25" skinny tires
>will give 13 gear inches.
>
>We're talking about a difference of 1.8 gear inches on the
>700C wheeled bike between 20x34 and 20x38. And a difference
>of 1.5 gear inches on the 26" 1.25" width tire bike between
>20x34 and 20x38. Not enough difference to matter. Your
>current low gear of 22x34 on a 27" wheel bike gives 17.5
>gear inches.

From months of searching on the net, the Sidewinder was
the only bike with a AG (none on eBay yet) also was told
the Huret Duoper would work what did (do) you have on the
front ?? do you still have either bike and if so are they
for sell ??

>The 38 tooth Suntour cog came on the 5 speed AG freewheel
>which was sold with the AG rear derailleur which was
>designed to shift over that big cog. In 1982 I bought a
>Schwinn Sidewinder mountain bike which came with this
>freewheel and rear derailleur setup. The freewheel was 14-17-22-28-
>38 but the 38 tooth cog would fit on any other Suntour
>freewheel.
>
>I used a freewheel with this 38 tooth cog and a Huret
>Duopar rear derailleur on my 1985 Cannondale ST400 touring
>bike. This combination worked just fine but I should
>mention that this Cannondale has a very long derailleur
>tab. Bikes with the more usual tab length may not work with
>this combination.
>
>A 26" rear wheel with a 1 1/4 tire will lower your bottom
>gear by a bit over 10% and the 38 tooth cog will lower it
>by a bit over 11%.
>
>If you already have a Suntour freewheel you could take the
>cogs off and install the 38 in place of the largest one,
>reassemble it, and see if it works with the rear derailleur
>you have. You can use the B adjustment screw to some extent
>to make a larger cog work but shift quality suffers if you
>overdo that.
>
>Bob Taylor
>
>
>
>
>Willy Smallboy <soreass@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:<ml6o40hur0k3l2268lmghrogiaer466ctk@4ax.com>...
>> has anyone got a SunTour 14-34 rear to work with a 20-32-
>> 42 Suntour ?? got the 38 on eBay and was told that I need
>> a AG der or Duet (?). Best to find someone that got this
>> working.
>>
>> I have a 34 rear and a 22 front on a 27" bike that works
>> but I would like to get the lowest gear possible (I have
>> a bad right leg) to build a 26" or 700c
>>
>> thanks

and I have a bad leg so I really would like a 50 gear in
the back to see what it is like hold your right leg in
the air and pedal up a hill anyone have a lower gear than
the 38-20 ??

On 8 Mar 2004 18:41:23 -0800, carlfogel@comcast.net (Carl
Fogel) wrote:

>russellseaton1@yahoo.com (Russell Seaton) wrote in message
>news:<e90052be.0403080719.30808594@posting.google.com>...
>> Willy Smallboy <soreass@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:<ml6o40hur0k3l2268lmghrogiaer466ctk@4ax.com>...
>> > has anyone got a SunTour 14-34 rear to work with a 20-32-
>> > 42 Suntour ?? got the 38 on eBay and was told that I
>> > need a AG der or Duet (?). Best to find someone that
>> > got this working.
>> >
>> > I have a 34 rear and a 22 front on a 27" bike that
>> > works but I would like to get the lowest gear possible
>> > (I have a bad right leg) to build a 26" or 700c
>> >
>> > thanks
>>
>> Not a direct answer to your question, but this is
>> rec.bicycles! I use a 20 tooth inner chainring with a 34
>> tooth rear cog. 7 speed Shimano. Deore DX derailleurs
>> from 1991. Bar end shifters. The 20 tooth is via an Avid
>> adaptor that allows 58mm bcd rings to go on a crankset
>> with 74mm bcd. This setup works very nice on my Trek 520.
>> I did put in a longer B screw and had my brother build up
>> and extend the rear derailleur tab with a welder so the
>> longer B screw did not slip off the flat. The rear
>> derailleur pulley was hitting the big cog before this
>> frame modification. I think something similar would be
>> required to get a 38 cog to work.
>>
>> As for using a 38 cog in the back, I'm not sure there is
>> much reason. A 20x34 with a 700C wheeled bike with 35mm
>> tires gives 16 gear inches. On a 26" mountain bike wheel
>> with 1.25" tires and 20x34, the gearing is about 14.5
>> gear inches. Figuring a 24.5" diameter for the skinnier
>> 26" wheels. A 20x38 gear on a 700C bike will give 14.2
>> gear inches. A 20x38 gear on a 26" bike with 1.25" skinny
>> tires will give 13 gear inches.
>>
>> We're talking about a difference of 1.8 gear inches on
>> the 700C wheeled bike between 20x34 and 20x38. And a
>> difference of 1.5 gear inches on the 26" 1.25" width tire
>> bike between 20x34 and 20x38. Not enough difference to
>> matter. Your current low gear of 22x34 on a 27" wheel
>> bike gives 17.5 gear inches.
>
>Dear Russell,
>
>When the gear-inches are so small, it's hard to remember
>that apparently tiny differences become important. You may
>have lost sight of the forest for the trees.
>
>Given the same crank length, rear wheel size, and front
>sprocket teeth, replacing a 34-tooth rear cog with a 38-
>tooth will provide an 11.8% increase in overall
>mechanical advantage, which is likely to be quite
>noticeable on steep hills.
>
>Carl Fogel

by searching eBay for months I would say only Suntour with
a freewheel

I am trying to learn the differences between the two (any
major ones)

On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 17:16:38 GMT, scituatejohn <usenet-
forum@cyclingforums.com> wrote:

>I've never seen a 38 rear cog. Does someone make one for a
>Cassette, or are they only available on a freewheel?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Willy Smallboy
[B]and I have a bad leg so I really would like a 50 gear in
the back to see what it is like hold your right leg in
the air and pedal up a hill anyone have a lower gear than
the 38-20 ??

[snip carl]

Dear Willy,

Unfortunately, a 20 front and 50 rear probably
won't work very well.

The problem is the overall mechanical advantage.

With typical high gearing on touring tires, the
rear wheel rolls around 9 feet forward for every
foot that the pedal moves in its small circle.

For a 700c tire at 2124 mm and a 175 mm crank,
a 20-tooth front sprocket and a 38-tooth
rear cog provide a 1.02 wheel-roll-to-pedal-motion
ratio. The rear wheel moves 102 feet for every
hundred feet that your foot moves. This is
probably the limit of useful gear reduction,
since it reduces you to walking through a
chain.

At the even more extreme ratio of a 20 front x 50
rear, your foot actually moves farther than the
rear wheel rolls. The ratio is 0.77, meaning that
for every foot that you crank the pedal, the rear
wheel moves only about 9 inches.

You'd probably find it easier and faster to walk
next to the bike than to use such an extreme
ratio. Its only use will be if your leg problems
are so bad that you can't walk up the slope.

Even then, balance would present a problem.
It's hard enough to balance a smoothly pedalled
bike heading uphill at such low gearing. An
uneven power stroke would make balancing
even more difficult.

For all riders, there's a point at which it's easier
to get off and walk. The riders who climb the
stairs of skyscrapers are no different. They don't
pedal up the stairways. They hop up, trials-style,
in an exhausting manner made all the more
difficult by the need to balance at every jump:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...03/hoppity_hop

Carl Fogel

Willy Smallboy <soreass@yahoo.com> wrote:
><damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>Willy Smallboy <soreass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>has anyone got a SunTour 14-38 rear to work with a 20-32-
>>>42 Suntour ?? got the 38 on eBay and was told that I need
>>>a AG der or Duet (?). I have a 34 rear and a 22 front on
>>>a 27" bike that works but I would like to get the lowest
>>>gear possible (I have a bad right leg)
>>direct drive or effect a 2.5:1 reduction; with a less
>>large budget the SRAM rear hubs that mount a
>>conventional 9s derailleur rear on a 3-speed hub might
>>also be worth a try.
>Interesting I will check into a der with a 3-speed hub

Don't top-post, it gives you crabs.

You're looking for the SRAM "Dual Drive" hubs; HU2591 in 36-
hole. Sheldon sells them, amongst others.

One of these will effect a considerably greater reduction -
.73:1 - than switching a 34 for a 38. Also, because the
third speed on the hub increases the effective gear, you can
concentrate on many closely spaced gears at the low end, and
use the hub's high speed for downhill pedalling and the like
- otherwise, I expect that 42:14 high gear is a bit too low
for comfort.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill
the tomato!

> >
> > We're talking about a difference of 1.8 gear inches on
> > the 700C wheeled bike between 20x34 and 20x38. And a
> > difference of 1.5 gear inches on the 26" 1.25" width
> > tire bike between 20x34 and 20x38. Not enough difference
> > to matter. Your current low gear of 22x34 on a 27" wheel
> > bike gives 17.5 gear inches.
>
> Dear Russell,
>
> When the gear-inches are so small, it's hard to remember
> that apparently tiny differences become important. You may
> have lost sight of the forest for the trees.
>
> Given the same crank length, rear wheel size, and front
> sprocket teeth, replacing a 34-tooth rear cog with a 38-
> tooth will provide an 11.8% increase in overall
> mechanical advantage, which is likely to be quite
> noticeable on steep hills.
>
> Carl Fogel

Dear Carl,

When the gear inches are so small, one must remember to
disregard the percentage change and look at the real
numbers. Very similar to buying 100 shares of a penny stock
and getting a 100% return. $1 or $2 makes no difference. In
contrast, having 1 share of Berkshire and getting a 10%
return, you can afford two Record equipped pro bikes. Two of
the cheaper pro bikes anyway.

Going from a 22x34, which the question asker already has, to
a 22x38, gives a decrease of 1.9 gear inches. Too small of a
difference to matter.

"Willy Smallboy" <soreass@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ml6o40hur0k3l2268lmghrogiaer466ctk@4ax.com...
> has anyone got a SunTour 14-34 rear to work with a 20-32-
> 42 Suntour ?? got the 38 on eBay and was told that I need
> a AG der or Duet (?). Best to find someone that got this
> working.
>
> I have a 34 rear and a 22 front on a 27" bike that works
> but I would like to get the lowest gear possible (I have a
> bad right leg) to build a 26" or 700c
>
> thanks
>

Don't forget that you can lace any size rim to your rear hub
and as long as the cranks don't hit the ground then you're
good to go. Consider lacing a 20" rim to your rear hub. When
this is combined w/ your 38 tooth rear and 20t front, you
will be able to climb mount everest using the little piggy
that stayed home!

And when your leg gets better please do consider a normal
bike because this would obviously be a solution to your
(hopefully temporary) handicap.

Dave