Ergo shifters

My situation is that I have a nice older frame with 126mm
rear spacing. I've raced this bike for several years, hung
it up, and would like to get back into it. Frame material is
such that I'll have to stick with 126mm hubs.

It's currently configured with Shimano 7-speed hyperglide. I
would really like to convert this to a "brifter"
arrangement, but am indifferent if this is Shimano or
"Shimagnolo". I would like to have 8-speeds, if possible.
I've read Sheldon's incredibly informative website, but
still have a number of questions:

1. I have a set of well-used Ultegra 8-speed STI shifters,
from another bike. If I change the spacers in the 8-sp
cassette, can't I just use these cogs, in the spirit of
the "8 of 9 on 7" modification? I'm assuming that the
critical feature is the sprocket spacing...

2. I read that the 8-sp Ergo shifters index to a spacing
which matches the 7-speed Shimano HG, but am confused
about the exact type of derailer required (i.e., long-
cage, short-cage -- why does it matter?).

3. If I were to consider 9-sp Ergo shifters, how many gears
might I end up with on 126mm hubs -- 7,8, or 9? And what
cassette spacing is needed and with which derailer?

I came from ultra-flat Illinois, where a straight-
block cassette is a useful thing to have. I now live
in N. California, and will likely have to change my
thinking on this.

Thanks for any insights.

Regards,

Rob

Rob Weinstock wrote:
> My situation is that I have a nice older frame with 126mm
> rear spacing. I've raced this bike for several years, hung
> it up, and would like to get back into it. Frame material
> is such that I'll have to stick with 126mm hubs.
>
> It's currently configured with Shimano 7-speed hyperglide.
> I would really like to convert this to a "brifter"
> arrangement, but am indifferent if this is Shimano or
> "Shimagnolo". I would like to have 8-speeds, if possible.
> I've read Sheldon's incredibly informative website, but
> still have a number of questions:
>
> 1. I have a set of well-used Ultegra 8-speed STI shifters,
> from another bike. If I change the spacers in the 8-sp
> cassette, can't I just use these cogs, in the spirit of
> the "8 of 9 on 7" modification? I'm assuming that the
> critical feature is the sprocket spacing...

If you use 8-speed spacers, you can't fit 8 sprockets on a
7-speed body.

> 2. I read that the 8-sp Ergo shifters index to a spacing
> which matches the 7-speed Shimano HG, but am confused
> about the exact type of derailer required (i.e., long-
> cage, short-cage -- why does it matter?).

Any indexable Campagnolo derailer will work fine with this.
The cage length has to do with the sprocket and chainring
size variation, not with how many of them you have.
>
> 3. If I were to consider 9-sp Ergo shifters, how many
> gears might I end up with on 126mm hubs -- 7,8, or 9?
> And what cassette spacing is needed and with which
> derailer?

8 of 9 on 7. Read the article again, it's all
explained there.

http://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#up7

Sheldon "Like I Said..." Brown +----------------------------------------------------
---------+
| Small change can often be found under seat cushions. |
| --Robert A. Heinlein |
+-----------------------------------------------------------
--+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-
9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find
parts shipped Worldwide http://captainbike.com
http://sheldonbrown.com

"Rob Weinstock" <weinstro@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a84ad1a8.0403111340.2fda949f@posting.google.com...
> My situation is that I have a nice older frame with 126mm
> rear spacing. I've raced this bike for several years, hung
> it up, and would like to get back into it. Frame material
> is such that I'll have to stick with 126mm hubs.
>
> It's currently configured with Shimano 7-speed hyperglide.
> I would really like to convert this to a "brifter"
> arrangement, but am indifferent if this is Shimano or
> "Shimagnolo". I would like to have 8-speeds, if possible.
> I've read Sheldon's incredibly informative website, but
> still have a number of questions:
>
> 1. I have a set of well-used Ultegra 8-speed STI shifters,
> from another bike. If I change the spacers in the 8-sp
> cassette, can't I just use these cogs, in the spirit of
> the "8 of 9 on 7" modification? I'm assuming that the
> critical feature is the sprocket spacing...
>
> 2. I read that the 8-sp Ergo shifters index to a spacing
> which matches the 7-speed Shimano HG, but am confused
> about the exact type of derailer required (i.e., long-
> cage, short-cage -- why does it matter?).
>
> 3. If I were to consider 9-sp Ergo shifters, how many
> gears might I end up with on 126mm hubs -- 7,8, or 9?
> And what cassette spacing is needed and with which
> derailer?
>
> I came from ultra-flat Illinois, where a straight-block
> cassette is a useful thing to have. I now live in N.
> California, and will likely have to change my thinking
> on this.
>
> Thanks for any insights.
>
> Regards,
>
> Rob

If your concern is rear triangle width you might want to see
how difficult inserting an 8/9 speed rear hub actually is.
Since you have a set of 8 speed levers from another bike
it's safe to assume that you have a wheel to match. You may
be surprised at how easily it goes in with no frame
spreading to deal with. I have an old Trek 2000 aluminum
frame that started life as 7 speed Shimano 600. I upgraded
another bike from 8 to 9 speed and had purchased lighter
wheels along the way. I talked to Trek, the dealer, everyone
said I couldn't spread the rear triangle on that bike. After
about two years a little "light" went off and I went to the
basement and tried swapping wheels. Voila, Eureka, it went
right in with almost no coercion. 3 or 4000 off season miles
later it still works great. Radiused nuts on the ends of the
hub probably help. Bill Brannon

On 11 Mar 2004 13:40:14 -0800, weinstro@hotmail.com (Rob Weinstock)
wrote:

>My situation is that I have a nice older frame with 126mm
>rear spacing. I've raced this bike for several years, hung
>it up, and would like to get back into it. Frame material
>is such that I'll have to stick with 126mm hubs.

What makes you think you'll have to stick with a 126mm hub?
We seem to have all collectively forgotten that the early
Dura Ace 8-speed rear hubs came with conical locknuts to
assist in snapping them into 126mm rear triangles.

Four years ago I put my money where my mouth was. I
converted an old 126mm Trek 1400 (bonded aluminum) bike to
8-speed. It only takes a little effort to get the rear wheel
into the frame. I've now ridden it since then without
suffering any dire consequences predicted by the doom-and-
gloom crowd.

I once did the trig to figure out what adding 2 millimeters
to the short side of a right triangle about the size of a
typical set of stays would do to the angle of the dropout.
As I recall it changes the angle by about 1/4 degree. I'm
guessing most frame builders would be happy to get the
dropouts parallel by plus or minus 1/4 degree.

You might want to rethink you decision to eschew a
130mm hub.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net
http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

On 11 Mar 2004 13:40:14 -0800, weinstro@hotmail.com (Rob Weinstock)
wrote:

>My situation is that I have a nice older frame with 126mm
>rear spacing. I've raced this bike for several years, hung
>it up, and would like to get back into it. Frame material
>is such that I'll have to stick with 126mm hubs.

What makes you think you'll have to stick with a 126mm hub?
We seem to have all collectively forgotten that the early
Dura Ace 8-speed rear hubs came with conical locknuts to
assist in snapping them into 126mm rear triangles.

Four years ago I put my money where my mouth was. I
converted an old 126mm Trek 1400 (bonded aluminum) bike to
8-speed. It only takes a little effort to get the rear wheel
into the frame. I've now ridden it since then without
suffering any dire consequences predicted by the doom-and-
gloom crowd.

I once did the trig to figure out what adding 2 millimeters
to the short side of a right triangle about the size of a
typical set of stays would do to the angle of the dropout.
As I recall it changes the angle by about 1/4 degree. I'm
guessing most frame builders would be happy to get the
dropouts parallel by plus or minus 1/4 degree.

You might want to rethink you decision to eschew a
130mm hub.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net
http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

"John Everett" <jeverett3@earthlink.DEFEAT.UCE.BOTS.net> wrote in message
news:mht350lilsv7t578e274dpmk2932r79h1l@4ax.com...
> On 11 Mar 2004 13:40:14 -0800, weinstro@hotmail.com (Rob
> Weinstock) wrote:
>
> >My situation is that I have a nice older frame with 126mm
> >rear spacing. I've raced this bike for several years,
> >hung it up, and would like to get back into it. Frame
> >material is such that I'll have to stick with 126mm hubs.
>
> What makes you think you'll have to stick with a 126mm
> hub? We seem to have all collectively forgotten that the
> early Dura Ace 8-speed rear hubs came with conical
> locknuts to assist in snapping them into 126mm rear
> triangles.
>
> Four years ago I put my money where my mouth was. I
> converted an old 126mm Trek 1400 (bonded aluminum) bike to
> 8-speed. It only takes a little effort to get the rear
> wheel into the frame. I've now ridden it since then
> without suffering any dire consequences predicted by the
> doom-and-gloom crowd.
>
> I once did the trig to figure out what adding 2
> millimeters to the short side of a right triangle about
> the size of a typical set of stays would do to the angle
> of the dropout. As I recall it changes the angle by
> about 1/4 degree. I'm guessing most frame builders would
> be happy to get the dropouts parallel by plus or minus
> 1/4 degree.
>
> You might want to rethink you decision to eschew a
> 130mm hub.
>
>
> jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

I'm using an old 8 speed Dura Ace rear hub with the conical
lock nuts. I wonder if those can be purchased separately to
ease the use of another hubset. I suppose a little judicious
grinder/dremel work could accomplish the same thing. Bill