Young, first-time summer swim coach seeking advice! - Page 2

"Katie" <EnjyJehan@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:219d7d76.0402141657.51fe6bce@posting.google.com...
> Hi everyone! This is my first post so please be kind. I recently got a job as head coach for a
> summer swim team and am very excited about it. I was an assistant for a different team last year
> but have never been a head coach before. I'm enthusiastic about this job and want to give it my
> best effort; I've been swimming for twelve years and it's a sport that is very close to my heart.
> I'm here to ask for some advice: any tips from coaches, swimmers or even parents of swimmers would
> be most appreciated. Thanks so much!

I'll leave the in pool advise to the experts but as a former parent board prez for a summer league
team, here's some observations.

The job is more than just coaching. You're the CEO of the team. You probably report to a parent
board but you're ultimately responsible for the whole shebang so think of yourself as a manager not
just the coach. Learn to manage, delegate and supervise. Don't try to do everything yourself but you
do need to make sure everything gets done. If coaching is your life's ambition, these are skills
you'll have to master. If this is just a temporary stop on the road to somewhere else, these skills
will serve you well in other endeavors. Take advantage of the learning opportunity.

Hire good competent assistants that you like and will have fun working with. If the coaching staff
is having fun, it will be infectious.

Your group will be looking for fun and improvement, probably in that order. Make sure everyone
(swimmers coaches and parents) at the end of the summer says "that was fun, I want to do that again
next year."

Fun and performance are not mutually exclusive. Ask a little more of the kids than you think they
can handle. You'll be surprised both by the results in the pool and how much they like being
challenged.

STP

EnjyJehan@netscape.net (Katie) wrote in message news:<219d7d76.0402141657.51fe6bce@posting.google.com>...
> Hi everyone! This is my first post so please be kind. I recently got a job as head coach for a
> summer swim team and am very excited about
> it. I was an assistant for a different team last year but have never been a head coach before.
> I'm enthusiastic about this job and want to give it my best effort; I've been swimming for
> twelve years and it's a sport that is very close to my heart. I'm here to ask for some
> advice: any tips from coaches, swimmers or even parents of swimmers would be most
> appreciated. Thanks so much!

You might find it helpful to read this article:

http://www.totalimmersion.net/2003%2...merleague.html

I think that the 'fun' thing, STP mentions, is one of the key things! It does NOT mean, that you
have to play the clown all the time. The kids must feel, that you have fun working with them and
beeing with them at the pool. You an have dedicated times for fun (like make some games in the water
for warming up and/or closing the session)

And for the parents: as others said here before, I can only tell you the same:

work togehter with them as good as possible , make the first step: talk to them, inform them about
your plans/goals/visions, invite them for a special 'open door' training session and tell them what
you are doing and why.

Have fun with the kids

Dani (former teacher and parent of a 10y old swimmer)

rwm@fambright.com (Robert W. McAdams) wrote in message news:<febb0da7.0402231400.11c13f7f@posting.google.com>...
>
> You might find it helpful to read this article:
>
> http://www.totalimmersion.net/2003%2...merleague.html

I read this article, and the similar ones on the website. WOW!! I can't believe I missed this when I
Googled "Swim Coach." Thank you very much for the valuable information. I do have one question,
though. My dad is really into TI but I don't know much about it. Is a kickboard really that
ineffective as a training tool for kids (it's the only equipment my pool has/can afford)? I used
them last year with a group of very young kids and they seemed to be effective in many ways. For
many it was the only way they could make it across the pool, and that helped them feel acomplished
as well as learning to put their face in the water and breathe to the side without the added
complication of arm movements. I probably used them several times a week. Would you suggest I use
them less? Maybe the article meant that kickboards were not effective for more experienced
swimmers...that I might buy, especially in summer swimming, though I think a six-beat kick in free
is very important (I only just learned how to do it a few years ago and my sprints have improved
immensely; it took me out of a slump where I couldn't make my arms any stronger but stil had an
ineffective kick). Anyway, sorry for the ramble; the long and short of it is: are kickboards a valid
training tool, and if so, for what abilities is this a good use of my time?

Thanks again for the article!

Yes, Kickboards can be valuable, (i don't use them with my groups, but i don't discount their value)

I think the question is, is TI a valuable teaching medium

"Katie" <EnjyJehan@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:219d7d76.0402260546.41ec9643@posting.google.com...
> rwm@fambright.com (Robert W. McAdams) wrote in message
news:<febb0da7.0402231400.11c13f7f@posting.google.com>...
> >
> > You might find it helpful to read this article:
> >
> > http://www.totalimmersion.net/2003%2...merleague.html
>
>
> I read this article, and the similar ones on the website. WOW!! I can't believe I missed this when
> I Googled "Swim Coach." Thank you very much for the valuable information. I do have one question,
> though. My dad is really into TI but I don't know much about it. Is a kickboard really that
> ineffective as a training tool for kids (it's the only equipment my pool has/can afford)? I used
> them last year with a group of very young kids and they seemed to be effective in many ways. For
> many it was the only way they could make it across the pool, and that helped them feel acomplished
> as well as learning to put their face in the water and breathe to the side without the added
> complication of arm movements. I probably used them several times a week. Would you suggest I use
> them less? Maybe the article meant that kickboards were not effective for more experienced
> swimmers...that I might buy, especially in summer swimming, though I think a six-beat kick in free
> is very important (I only just learned how to do it a few years ago and my sprints have improved
> immensely; it took me out of a slump where I couldn't make my arms any stronger but stil had an
> ineffective kick). Anyway, sorry for the ramble; the long and short of it is: are kickboards a
> valid training tool, and if so, for what abilities is this a good use of my time?
>
> Thanks again for the article!

EnjyJehan@netscape.net (Katie) wrote in message news:<219d7d76.0402260546.41ec9643@posting.google.com>...
> rwm@fambright.com (Robert W. McAdams) wrote in message
> news:<febb0da7.0402231400.11c13f7f@posting.google.com>...
>
> I read this article, and the similar ones on the website. WOW!! I can't believe I missed this when
> I Googled "Swim Coach." Thank you very much for the valuable information. I do have one question,
> though. My dad is really into TI but I don't know much about it. Is a kickboard really that
> ineffective as a training tool for kids (it's the only equipment my pool has/can afford)? I used
> them last year with a group of very young kids and they seemed to be effective in many ways. For
> many it was the only way they could make it across the pool, and that helped them feel acomplished
> as well as learning to put their face in the water and breathe to the side without the added
> complication of arm movements. I probably used them several times a week. Would you suggest I use
> them less? Maybe the article meant that kickboards were not effective for more experienced
> swimmers...that I might buy, especially in summer swimming, though I think a six-beat kick in free
> is very important (I only just learned how to do it a few years ago and my sprints have improved
> immensely; it took me out of a slump where I couldn't make my arms any stronger but stil had an
> ineffective kick). Anyway, sorry for the ramble; the long and short of it is: are kickboards a
> valid training tool, and if so, for what abilities is this a good use of my time?

I am somewhat prejudiced on this, since my kick was badly corrupted by use of a kick board, and it
has taken lots and lots of drilling to get over the problem.

But that's really the problem with kickboards: The natural way to use them - leaning on the
kickboard with your head out of the water - tends to teach a defective kick.

The first problem is that it leaves the swimmer's body in a very unstreamlined position - head up,
legs dangling - which encourages them to seek the most powerful kick possible, but not pay attention
to whether the kick is streamlined. The result tends to be a flailing, knee-driven kick that is
likely to slow them down rather than speed them up when they are doing whole-stroke freestyle.

The second problem is that the swimmer ends up practicing an up-and-down kick, whereas most of the
kicking they should be doing in whole-stroke freestyle is going to be partially on their side.

Now, there is a way to overcome this while still using a kickboard: It is possible for a swimmer to
essentially push the kickboard in front of them with their face in the water looking at the bottom
of the pool. And it is even possible for a swimmer to swim on their side while pushing the kickboard
in front of them.

But this requires a lot of diligence on the part of the coach. Several months ago, I saw a coach who
was having her kids do both of these drills, and I noticed that on the first drill, 1/4 to 1/3 of
the kids were ignoring what she said and leaning on the kickboard with their heads out of the water.
On the second drill, even fewer kids were getting it. She was only one coach working with 3 lanes
full of kids, and it was impossible for her to constantly monitor all the kids to insure that they
were doing it correctly.

All of which brings us to the second consideration: If they're NOT going to lean on the board with
their heads out of the water, then why use a board at all? What is the board accomplishing? I
sometimes kick the length of the pool, but I don't use a kickboard to do it. If you're balanced in
the water, you don't need one. And if they're not balanced, then that is the very first thing they
need to learn, because everything else depends on it. (The best way to have them start to learn
balance, by the way, is on their backs, where they don't have to think about breathing. I like to
begin by having them frame their face from their chin up to the sides of their goggles with their
fingers, and then say "That's where the water line should be" because that gives them a chance, in a
non-threatening environment, to realize that they can let their head go that deep and still have
their mouth and nose above the water. Then I tell them to lean back until the water comes up to that
line, and let their hips rise to the surface.)

Bob

On 27 Feb,
rwm@fambright.com (Robert W. McAdams) wrote:

> All of which brings us to the second consideration: If they're NOT going to lean on the board with
> their heads out of the water, then why use a board at all? What is the board accomplishing?

If they haven't got a board up front the arms are probably doing something, pushing down, doggy
paddling or pulling on the lane ropes.

> I sometimes kick the length of the pool, but I don't use a kickboard to do
> it. If you're balanced in the water, you don't need one. And if they're not balanced, then that
> is the very first thing they need to learn, because everything else depends on it.

Very true. It's getting the balance, I prefer face in, hands in trouser pockets, but a lot still try
to paddle to beat their mates.

> (The best way to have them start to learn balance, by the way, is on their backs, where they don't
> have to think about breathing. I like to begin by having them frame their face from their chin up
> to the sides of their goggles with their fingers, and then say "That's where the water line should
> be" because that gives them a chance, in a non-threatening environment, to realize that they can
> let their head go that deep and still have their mouth and nose above the water.

Some aren't happy on their backs at all. For front crawl I try swimming as above, with "hands in
pockets" and roll to breath (if necessary onto their backs). This produces the balance, together
with kicking (with arms back) on their side.

> Then I tell them to lean back until the water comes up to that line, and let their hips rise to
> the surface.
) Shoulders back and tummy up ( together with look up) are good teaching points.

To get back to the first point, kick boards are a waste of space, unless preventing the use of arms
(I use them to stop breast stroke arms when doing fly kick) or to increase resistance (keep your
shoulders out of the water works wonders if you are trying to get streamlining, when they do that
they stop, and realise what is better streamlining) or used vertically to add resistance. Swimmers,
however, like to use them as a social aid, so they can gossip all the time.

--
BD add 1 to from address to reply [13435]

rwm@fambright.com (Robert W. McAdams) wrote in message news:<febb0da7.0402270900.461e96e6@posting.google.com>...
> I am somewhat prejudiced on this, since my kick was badly corrupted by use of a kick board, and it
> has taken lots and lots of drilling to get over the problem.
>
> But that's really the problem with kickboards: The natural way to use them - leaning on the
> kickboard with your head out of the water - tends to teach a defective kick.
>
> The first problem is that it leaves the swimmer's body in a very unstreamlined position - head up,
> legs dangling - which encourages them to seek the most powerful kick possible, but not pay
> attention to whether the kick is streamlined. The result tends to be a flailing, knee-driven kick
> that is likely to slow them down rather than speed them up when they are doing whole-stroke
> freestyle.
>
> The second problem is that the swimmer ends up practicing an up-and-down kick, whereas most of the
> kicking they should be doing in whole-stroke freestyle is going to be partially on their side.
>
> Now, there is a way to overcome this while still using a kickboard: It is possible for a swimmer
> to essentially push the kickboard in front of them with their face in the water looking at the
> bottom of the pool. And it is even possible for a swimmer to swim on their side while pushing the
> kickboard in front of them.
>
> But this requires a lot of diligence on the part of the coach. Several months ago, I saw a coach
> who was having her kids do both of these drills, and I noticed that on the first drill, 1/4 to 1/3
> of the kids were ignoring what she said and leaning on the kickboard with their heads out of the
> water. On the second drill, even fewer kids were getting it. She was only one coach working with 3
> lanes full of kids, and it was impossible for her to constantly monitor all the kids to insure
> that they were doing it correctly.
>
> All of which brings us to the second consideration: If they're NOT going to lean on the board with
> their heads out of the water, then why use a board at all? What is the board accomplishing? I
> sometimes kick the length of the pool, but I don't use a kickboard to do it. If you're balanced in
> the water, you don't need one. And if they're not balanced, then that is the very first thing they
> need to learn, because everything else depends on it. (The best way to have them start to learn
> balance, by the way, is on their backs, where they don't have to think about breathing. I like to
> begin by having them frame their face from their chin up to the sides of their goggles with their
> fingers, and then say "That's where the water line should be" because that gives them a chance, in
> a non-threatening environment, to realize that they can let their head go that deep and still have
> their mouth and nose above the water. Then I tell them to lean back until the water comes up to
> that line, and let their hips rise to the surface.)
>
>
> Bob

That makes sense, Bob. I was mainly talking about really young kids who don't have a prayer of
making it across the pool on their own. You start looking for some mechanism to get them across
the pool, because there just isn't much you can do in practice if they can't make one lap. When
they kicked, I usually made them keep their faces in the water: that's how my littlest ones
learned to use the kickboard so they didn't complain about having to do it that way because it was
all they knew.

I like the idea of them framing their faces with the "water line": another one for my
notebook! Thanks!

EnjyJehan@netscape.net (Katie) wrote in message

> To those who replied about the parents: points taken, both of them. I will try to find a middle
> ground.

Already many good suggestions re handling parents. Just about every age-group swim coach has a
litany of war stories with difficult parents to relate. Most parents, though, are a tremendous
resource and a joy to work with. Here's what I found to be most helpful:

First, have an organizational meeting where you go over the ground rules. This lets you establish a
relationship with the parents before misunderstandings or work at cross-purposes arise. Make up a
sheet itemizing the basic framework in which you want to operate. Make sure every swimmer's parents
get one, either at the organizational meeting or when their swimmer goes home from the first
workout. Most parents are eager to help, but if you don't set up the framework, you risk chaos. It's
perfectly acceptable to have this meeting just prior to or as part of the first practice.

My own framework is very simple:

(1) No parents on the deck except as part of *your* workout plan. Reasons for parents to be on the
deck include serving as timers during time trials and lifeguarding. Soft-pedal this one to the
parents, but make sure it's understood. Obviously, if there's an emergency or a parent sees a
dangerous situation developing, there's room in the rule for a parent to act.

(2) Set up a regular time when parents can come to you with suggestions and concerns, and make it
clear that you'll give them a fair hearing when they come to you. Immediately following the
workout is usually a good time. Whatever it is, keep the lines of communication open. Parents
know a lot more about their children than you ever will, and you can usually winnow some good
information even from the whining and beratings of a difficult parent. Also make it clear that
personal information about a swimmer will be kept confidential.

(3) If you have an irregularly-shaped pool (such as one with an "L"), you may not be able to see all
parts of the pool at all times. Parents are a great supervising and lifeguarding resource in
these cases.

(4) Absolutely no swimmers in the water except as directed. I had a near-drowning once when swimmers
were in the water without my knowledge. I still get a queezy feeling in my stomach when I think
about it. Violating this rule results in a suspension during the next swim meet. (I have never
had to give out more than one suspension in a season.) This rule, and your willingness to
enforce it, puts parents at ease and raises your esteem in their eyes, because it lets them know
that you take water safety seriously.

(5) Explicitly request that parents of swimmers with special needs or with medical conditions that
you need to be aware of (such as asthma or susceptability to swimmer's ear) make you aware of
them. Many coaches give out an information sheet that the parents fill out that covers such
things. Make sure they know to tell you if there is any change in their child's physical
condition.

(6) Also explicitly request that parents tell you if their children are working with another coach,
or are attending workout sessions in addition to yours. You need to know this in order to avoid
overloading the swimmer and to gauge the effectiveness of your coaching.

(7) Sadly, it is incumbent on you to explicitly tell parents that swimming entails risks, including
possible illness, injury, or death by drowning, physical stress, or accidents on the pool deck.
If you give out a swimmer's info sheet, it is a good idea to state this as part of a disclaimer
or waiver. Your pool may already require parents to sign such a waiver before allowing their
children to swim. Don't belabor the point, but make sure that every parent has heard or read
this. It's your butt if the worst happens and you didn't issue this warning.

(8) While this doesn't directly involve parents, I'll state it as part of my coaching philosophy:
Try to give every swimmer a chance to swim in every meet. If you have a large age group, you can
sometimes do this by arranging with the other coach for an "exhibition" heat. (The other coach
may have exactly the same problem with exactly the same age group -- 10-and-under boys tends to
be a very well-represented age group.) In my younger days, I would try to field a team that
would dominate every meet. These days, I'd quite frankly rather lose a meet than deny a swimmer
a chance to compete in at least one event. You have to decide for yourself how you want to
handle this. Everyone likes to win. But as another poster stated, this isn't the junior
nationals -- it's an age group swim team. Make it fun and rewarding for the swimmers and it will
be fun and rewarding for you.

Good luck, Katie! Let us know how you fare.

Kerry, thank you for your valuable information. I have
written up a parents' information sheet and used many of
your points. We have registration at the end of next week
with a possible parents' meeting after that. I will
definitely let you know how that goes. Thank you to everyone
for the wonderful advice; I continue to check this board and
look forward to any additional tips. You all are a
personable and helpful bunch of people and I thank you!

When I look at the discussion, it seems, that the main focus
is on the relationship with the parents, which is for sure
very important.

Let me point out another thing: when you have a bunch of
kids, there is always one or two causing trouble (mostly
just little things, like not listenig to you, kidding and
talking while you are explaining...)
. You have to react then according what they did and what
seems right to you. the problem is, that these things can
ruin your fun and your good mood (and so also affect the
other kids who behave well....)

the Point I want to make: get your energy and motivation out
of the positive things that happen when working with kids.

Don't hesitate to ask for help (older coaches, parents of
these kids). Not only for swimming questions but also in
educational/discipline things. Asking for help is not a
signal that you faild or are not able for the job it shows
that you are serioussy interessted to become a good coach.
have fun and good luck Dani

In article
<dca594f2.0403112242.3c006b22@posting.google.com>,
kinglouis@dplanet.ch says...
> When I look at the discussion, it seems, that the main
> focus is on the relationship with the parents, which is
> for sure very important.
>
> Let me point out another thing: when you have a bunch of
> kids, there is always one or two causing trouble (mostly
> just little things, like not listenig to you, kidding and
> talking while you are explaining...)
> . You have to react then according what they did and what
> seems right to you. the problem is, that these things
> can ruin your fun and your good mood (and so also affect
> the other kids who behave well....)
>
> the Point I want to make: get your energy and
> motivation out of the positive things that happen when
> working with kids.
>
> Don't hesitate to ask for help (older coaches, parents of
> these kids). Not only for swimming questions but also in
> educational/discipline things. Asking for help is not a
> signal that you faild or are not able for the job it shows
> that you are serioussy interessted to become a good coach.
> have fun and good luck Dani

I'd be cautious about soliciting parental help, though -
especially on the deck during practice. I wouldn't have a
parent helping out in those conditions unless they were
either on the payroll or somehow designated as an official
volunteer assistant of some kind that had been through some
form of (even superficial) training. Otherwise you risk all
the other parents wanting to jump in every time they think
their kid is loafing or wondering why Johny is swimming
ahead of their kid in the circle.

But having said that, well intentioned parents willing to
have you put them to work under whatever conditions you are
comfortable with are absolutely invaluable (and they are
out there.)

- Al

In article
<dca594f2.0403112242.3c006b22@posting.google.com>,
kinglouis@dplanet.ch says...
> When I look at the discussion, it seems, that the main
> focus is on the relationship with the parents, which is
> for sure very important.
>
> Let me point out another thing: when you have a bunch of
> kids, there is always one or two causing trouble (mostly
> just little things, like not listenig to you, kidding and
> talking while you are explaining...)
> . You have to react then according what they did and what
> seems right to you. the problem is, that these things
> can ruin your fun and your good mood (and so also affect
> the other kids who behave well....)
>
> the Point I want to make: get your energy and
> motivation out of the positive things that happen when
> working with kids.
>
> Don't hesitate to ask for help (older coaches, parents of
> these kids). Not only for swimming questions but also in
> educational/discipline things. Asking for help is not a
> signal that you faild or are not able for the job it shows
> that you are serioussy interessted to become a good coach.
> have fun and good luck Dani

I'd be cautious about soliciting parental help, though -
especially on the deck during practice. I wouldn't have a
parent helping out in those conditions unless they were
either on the payroll or somehow designated as an official
volunteer assistant of some kind that had been through some
form of (even superficial) training. Otherwise you risk all
the other parents wanting to jump in every time they think
their kid is loafing or wondering why Johny is swimming
ahead of their kid in the circle.

But having said that, well intentioned parents willing to
have you put them to work under whatever conditions you are
comfortable with are absolutely invaluable (and they are
out there.)

- Al