Bent Power

At the risk of creating a word-storm, or even new forum topic, I will ask:

Anyone have a bent with an engine attached?

Sometime back my body decided DF bike rides were no longer to be tolerated, so I began looking at bents. I researched a lot and decided to go LWB, and almost bought a beauty of Aglio from a very nice guy in Lubbock, TX. Unfortunately I had to back off as the disk brake system crated a problem mounting a belt-drive engine over rear wheel. (BTW, if looking for bent, I believe the advert is on this site's classified, and this man is as honest as we get, so that bike will be as he says and more. If not for motor thingy, I would be riding it today.)

Anyway, I got lucky for being in a small town and ran into a used but nearlynew Burley Sandpoint locally and bought it.

Am installing a Golden Eagle (GEBE) bike engine over rear wheel, so I do not have to pedal hard going up the hill to my home. This engine will not be used much when cruising around - totally free pedaling is accomplished by moving belt off drive ring, which takes about 10 seconds.

I am about to put it together, and wonder who else might have powered up a bent in this manner and comments they might have?

Will post pics later.

__________________
Welcome to our round playground called earth,
Where the number one cause of death is birth! ~ John Lucas, Winona, MN, USA

Why am I not fishing?

I've considered it myself. My ride to work is 20 miles with at least 2 big hills. I'd like the aerobic workout but it'd be a bit much.

What size rear wheel does the Sand Point have? I thought it was a 20" and I didn't think the belt drive would work on anything smaller than 26". But I could be wrong on both points.

What type of motor are you getting? 2 stroke or 4?

Let us know how you like it.

One good forum for gas-powered bikes is www.motoredbikes.com
There have been a few motored bents done there, some kits do adapt on pretty easily. Look around on that site for a couple days, there's some common problems you can avoid.

I would guess a bent is not so good a choice for motorization, unless it has suspension. A motor will push you along at 25-30mph, you'll hit a LOT more bumps a LOT harder than you would normally. With upright bikes you can stand on the pedals a bit over big bumps and unweight the frame somewhat, but you can't do that on a bent very well. Also most small gas engines don't have real progressive throttle control, they're basically idling or at 100%. People with different engines say there's not a lot of sensitivity in-between.

Also for shock absorption you want FAT tires, the biggest you can fit on there, at moderatepressures, and this means you want wider rims (most bikes seem to come with 25mm rims these days...).

Also with the Golden Eagle you tend to get broken spokes, if you don't have really thick ones in there (though I guess this depends upon the engine power and your weight somewhat). Zip-tying them helps, but starting out with thick ones gives you much better chances of uneventful rides.

I have a Golden Eagle kit w/35cc 4-stroke Robin engine kit.
I had it on my RANS Fusion for a while. It worked, but for a few reasons it didn't work out real well. I ordered a Worksman newsboy-cruiser bike for the engine, and just pedal the Fusion normally now.
~

Firstly, this is experiment.

My Sandpoint bent has a 26 rear wheel. I bought a GEBE wheel as a switch wheel with 8" long 10mm axle, because most bents have a 34 spoke rear and it is better to use 36 if you plan to put lots of pressure on the spokes. The 34 will work, however and GEBE has drive rings. The wheel can be used on any bike using 26 rear.

I had a GEBE on a TREK cruiser and it was not powerful enough to attack the hill without serious work. Besides, the bike was too nice to shake apart on road - you can see it on motoredbikes.com under GEBE TREK CNC in Pics. Was good lookin rig and so simple.

I went to the bent because I ride too high on aDF and it hurt my wrists etc. I have long legs and did not like to power on the DF. I do not go fast or much above 15 when motoring.

Many people use the motor and pedals combined for a good workout, but I prefer to pedal freely.

My past engine was a Honda 4-stroke 25, but went to a Tanaka 33, 2-stroke, reluctantly mixing gas. The latter has a larger clutch and gets .5 more HP at a little less weight. Will see. Also, the gas tank sits upright but had to add longer intake pipe to be sure it reached tank bottom. Running out of gas is not recommended for 2-cycles and why short the tank miles?

BTW these engines thottle easily from low to full power, if the hook-up is done correctly, but I have really never ran full power as too dangerous and hard on bikes not make for speedy street travel with no suspension, even on smooth roads. I am sure a good TREK mountain bike rig will handle all terrain, if rider can. But, I am cruiser and pleasure pedaler.

The Workman is a cool bike. If I ever go back to a DF, I likely go with Monarch type front fork and use some sort of rear suspension on mountain frame etc.

But, it might pay to review the new RANS CF rigs. They seem a happy compromose between bents and DF frames. They are spendy. May go there next.

As I said, will post pics and review experience, once I get going.

That Aglio bent I mentioned above is also on eBay and might be on the recumbent site "for sale" forum, at least it was. Great deal, even with shipping etc. http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/index.php?

__________________
Welcome to our round playground called earth,
Where the number one cause of death is birth! ~ John Lucas, Winona, MN, USA

Why am I not fishing?

http://www.motoredbikes.com/viewtopic.php?p=17613#17613

__________________
Welcome to our round playground called earth,
Where the number one cause of death is birth! ~ John Lucas, Winona, MN, USA

Why am I not fishing?

I'm enough of a purist that I just don't understand the idea of power-assist. I mean, the units are not cheap; so by the time you get done, you're nearly at the cost of a true moped, which will not have the issues of frame breakage, spoke breakage, kludgy power transfer, too skinny tires, inadequate brakes for 25-35 mph... I could go on and on.

MHO - if you want to pedal you should get a bicycle, if you want power, get a moped or a motorcycle. If you want both, get one of each! Now that you've spent the big bucks, I hope it works out for you. It would be interesting to hear back about it in a year to see how you feel about it. Will you expect to use it less as you get stronger, or will it become a permanent crutch?

I understand your point of view. No problem.

Thing is, this is second motored bike. I had TREK CNC Rail 1 DF set up with motor and it was fine, but I did not want to beat up bike - only 200 made - and at 15 MPH, the lack of suspension is noted, but not that bad. So, I sold that beauty, regrettably and moved to bents.

As to cost; $500 for engine and kit, bike might be zero to whatever. I have total of $650 in the bent and engine with Specialized rubber on back, etc.

Moped, scooters? Not the same, not by long shot. Rider often needs special license and instruction with some models and in some states, cannot go where bikes go, and so on. No permits, special instruction, no nothin'!

Still, I generally use only on hill on return trips. I have grown weary of coming home from nice cruise and have to work up major sweat cranking up hill, plus my bad left peg disagrees. Let us say motor thingy is my gift to meself.

Moreover, many many of those using the GEBE kits actually pedal with engine going. Yes, seems goofy, but it ends up making the ride a great way to lose pounds and takes the bull out of going against the wind and it is very much fun.

Still, whatever it takes, be it purist bent, DF, CF, or souped up bike or trike.

I like the option of bike or motor or both and I go wherever bikes go, except bent and rough trails are more or less incompatable, but not so with the CFs, which may be next level for moi! I am intrigued with the RANS models with suspension.Your observations are noted and appreciated.

__________________
Welcome to our round playground called earth,
Where the number one cause of death is birth! ~ John Lucas, Winona, MN, USA

Why am I not fishing?

I agree with all that.

Personally I see the notion of a "pure" hobby as a bit loony. If you're having fun with it, more power to you. And if you're riding a bent, most likely youre not in the purest crowd anyway.

The reason I am interested is clear. I have two large hills on my way to and from work. The ride is about 20 miles one way. If I ride to work currently it would be almost 2 hours and I would need a shower badly. With a motor I would still get some excercise without overdoing it, save a large chunk on gas and cut the time needed nearly in half.

I see someone building a motorized recumbent as a realistic commuting solution (bigger tires, heavier wheels and a drivetrain and wheelbase designed for 20-35mph). It wouldn't take much and you could have a 200mpg motorized bike that almost anyone could use. And it could be done for $2000 fairly easily.

If you motorize a bicycle, you've legally got a moped. (Thus the name: MOtor and PEDals.) Whatever laws your locality has concerning mopeds should apply, whether or not they're enforced. If it can go over 35 mph (at least here in Michigan) it is a motorcycle and must be licensed and insured as such. Some places allow small sub-35mph scooters (a.k.a. NoPeds) to be lumped in with mopeds.

Here in Michigan, trails and MUPs are marked "No motorized vehicles." That would include motorized bicycles.

Who would want to go that fast on a bike???

"Relative to MN, relative to question on state definition of motorized vehicle in a particular revokation case, but the basic explanation is included:

"The answer is truly dependent on where your “electric bicycle” fits in the law, so we will have to determine which of the following definitions fits. Statue 171.01 sb 40 “motorcycle means every motor vehicle having a seat or saddle for the use of the rider and designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground, including motor scooters and bicycles with motor attached, but excluding tractors and motorized bicycles.” Because of the nature of your question I am pretty sure you are not talking about a motorcycle. [/font][font=&quot]

"Subdivision 41 states a “motorized bicycle means a bicycle that is propelled by an electric or a liquid fuel motor of a piston displacement capacity of 50 cubic centimeters or less, and a maximum of two brake horsepower, which is capable of a maximum speed of not more than 30 miles per hour on a flat surface with not more than one percent grade in any direction when the motor is engaged.

"Motorized bicycle includes an electric-assisted bicycle as defined in section 169.01 sb 4b.” Now according to 169.01 sb 4b “electric-assisted bicycle means a motor vehicle with two or three wheels that: (1) has a saddle and fully operable pedals for human propulsion; (2) meets the requirements of federal motor vehicle safety standards in CFR 49 section 571.01; and (3) has an electric motor that (i) has a power output of not more than 1,000 watts, (ii) is incapable of propelling the vehicle at a speed of more than 20 mph, (iii) is incapable of further increasing the speed of the device when human power alone is used to propped the vehicle at a speed of more than 20 mph, and (iv) disengages or ceases to function when the vehicle’s brakes are applied.” I am guessing that this is the type of “electric bicycle” you are talking about.

"With that in mind we go to statute 171.02 sb 3 which in part states, “A motorized bicycle may not be operated on any public roadway by any person who does not possess a valid driver’s license, unless the person has obtained a motorized bicycle operator’s permit or motorized bicycle instruction permit from the commissioner of public safety.”

"So, no...... a person whose driver privileges have been revoked may not operate an electric bicycle.": from SGT. - MN State Highway Patrol.

As to "No motorized Vehicles," so? We abide and have no problems but where no restrictions are noted, such as bike paths or sidewalks ... No matter really and beside the point.

You deal with Michigan statutes, I deal with MN, others deal with their state laws.

Life goes on, but faster if the motor is running.

__________________
Welcome to our round playground called earth,
Where the number one cause of death is birth! ~ John Lucas, Winona, MN, USA

Why am I not fishing?

As to why one would want a motorized bicycle--my reason was as a second motorized way to get around, if my car isn't available and pedaling a bicycle isn't practical (for reasons of distance, illness, or just of not wanting to get to my destination covered in sweat). I never expected that the motorized bike was to prevent me from ever exerting myself on a bicycle again.

Depends on the laws where you live. Maybe so, maybe not.

There's no federal standard for motorized bicycles, and putting an engine on a bicycle usually does not qualify it as a "motor vehicle". Motor vehicles must be titleable and registerable, and for various reasons bicycles are generally not. In most US states, insurance companies aren't required to cover vehicles that aren't titled and registered so a bicycle in operation cannot be covered under any motor vehicle insurance policy (this is why if you are bicycling and you hit a pedestrian for example--your car insurance doesn't pay for that).

In both the state I currently live in and the state I plan on moving to this year, there are basically no special requirements for motorized bicycles--no registration, licensing or insurance. In Illinois it basically seems to be a legislative oversight. In Arizona, motorized bicycles were explicitly legalized, with some restrictions (16 yrs old, hold any valid drivers license, <2hp / 30mph top speed and so on).
~

That is where the homeowner policy comes into play. Of course, when an accident happens, 99% are handled by the defendants and paid, those being motor vehicle drivers and dog owners.

Last point, when I take the belt off the motor, my bicycle can go anywhere I drive it, which is what I do most of the time, so the laws are, by and large, not a factor.

__________________
Welcome to our round playground called earth,
Where the number one cause of death is birth! ~ John Lucas, Winona, MN, USA

Why am I not fishing?

OK, but license and insurance issues aside, it's a moped.

Main Entry: mo·ped
Pronunciation: 'mO-"ped
Function: noun
Etymology: Swedish, from motor motor + pedal pedal
: a lightweight low-powered motorbike that can be pedaled

I'm not trying to make a right/wrong judgement on whether anybody should do it, I'm just saying, for me, I'd rather keep the two separate and not make my bike a moped. If I wanted a motor, I'd rather have a purpose-engineered machine for it and leave my bike as a bike.

Not in MN and other states.

Besides, I was just wondering, if you go back to top, "At the risk of creating a word-storm, or even new forum topic, I will ask:

Anyone have a bent with an engine attached?"

__________________
Welcome to our round playground called earth,
Where the number one cause of death is birth! ~ John Lucas, Winona, MN, USA

Why am I not fishing?

I'm looking to buy a tadpole this year, and intend to motorize it. My commute is 30 miles each way, and my body just isn't up to manufaturer's specs anymore. My concerns are mostly about durability of the frame and clearances around the tires (Studs on the front in the winter, fat tires all the time). I'd appreciate wny input on manufacturers, features I should look for, etc.