Group Ride Etiquette - Page 4

gman0482 · #46 09-14.-2009

IMO, and I am a rookie at all of this so I'm probably wrong

, but maybe what he meant by "liking when someone pushes him" was not you pushing him because you were behind him, but you pushing him to ride harder by riding hard yourself.

If that makes any sense....

-Greg

doctorSpoc · #47 09-14.-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocket_Man

Sorry if this seems to be butting into the thread...but I think my questions/experience are relevant here.

I've been training for a century group ride all summer. Most of my rides were solo, except for about 2. Those two were the first that I really ever rode with other people for any period of time/distance/speed. On those two rides I pretty much hung in the back...or we fanned out 2-3 wide on the road to visit (not very busy roads). When I did get ahead of them for my pull (mainly on the climbs), I tried to do what I've read here..."Keep at the same tempo/effort and pull off after a few minutes". I would do that, look back, and they would be down the hill. I'd "soft pedal", let them catch up, feel bad, then just cruise in the rest of the way on the back, so we would stay together. Then, I'd feel bad that I hung on the back.
So...this weekend I finally had my ride. Rode with the same group, but we added a few more riders (both experienced and beginner). The first day we got all spread out, I started with the slower group...but made my way up chatting for a bit with everyone I passed, until I caught the "leader" of our team. At the rest area we waited and grouped up again. Wash, rinse, repeat...for most of the day until the weather got really bad, some of the group made a wrong turn, etc...only 3 of us finished together. On day two, today, another rider and myself took turns "taking care of" the slower riders...while letting the rest of the group ride ahead at their pace. I finally got my turn in the lead...one guy (he was one that took the wrong turn on day 1...so I wasn't able to ride with him much) was able to keep up to my comfortable pace. He is a very experienced rider (been all over the US and Europe) so, I did inform him that this was only my 3rd group ride. In the first little bit, when it was my turn to pull...I'd end up riding away from him, soft pedal, etc. So, on my next pull, I "backed off" just a tish, so that I could "do the work". But, he'd come right back around me. Finally, it ended up being him in the front and me going from his side (so we could talk) to me hanging on the wheel (to let cars pass, etc). At the end of the "hardest" hill (that he paced the whole way)...he thanked me for 'A Great ride...I like it when someone pushes me'. I said, confused, 'Your welcome'. ...?

Wow...long winded...Anyway, I guess what my point/question is...
Is there any way to learn to pull...without actually getting in a group? Maybe riding a specific speed/cadence/tempo, no matter if you could push harder??? Sounds weird...?
Also, could it be that some people would rather just pull? Having someone "stronger" push them, instead of pulling (like the guy at the end of my day 2 ride). Or was it possibly that he felt that I wasn't experienced enough...and he just figured he would be safer being in front?

Again, sorry for butting in, but thanks

Rocket_Man if you're in a group and you find that you are stronger than others then all you do is just take longer or more frequent pulls (it's up to you, but faster pulls will just tend to break up the group more (as you've found) and 100miles is a long way and it's in your interest to keep as many people along as is reasonable to do). to take more pulls, just pull back into the pack before you get all the way to the back, therefore you'll be back on the front faster. if you want to stay on longer just indicate that if someone tries to pass you. doing either of these will tend to establish a bit of a new equilibrium where you are a little more tired since you're taking longer or more frequent pulls and others are a little fresher since they are on the front that little bit less. doing this helps everyone and make the group move along faster so everyone wins in the end. you have to watch this though because some riders new to group riding underestimate how much benefit they are getting from riding in the draft of the group and might even overdo their longer or more frequent pulls to point then they can get dropped. a lot of this is just common sense though... basically if you can contribute more to the group then do it.

my interpretation is that the guy at the end likely thought didn't come around him because you couldn't, but knew you were strong because he had problems keeping up with you earlier. again, it's up to you how you want to handle it.. either getting into a bit of competition with him or just following his wheel seems like he was game for this and as i and others have said, this is the kind of fun the some people get out of group riding.. i.e. i think he thinks you were pushing him but he got the better of you.

roadhouse · #48 09-14.-2009

that's one of the things i've also had problems . i take my run at the front at about 20-22 and as i speed up a bit to get to the front (which you are not supposed to do, i think) i apparently don't slow down and ten minutes later when i look back, i'm all by myself. i guess that doesn't really count as pulling then.

i believe that the two in front ( side by side lines of about thirty to 100+ riders altogether, single file with the group i ride with) are supposed to pull off and slow down and the next in line is just that, next in line but i get impatient. that's a hard habit to break for myself anyway as i always want to be out front of the very front of anyone in the vicinity that is on a bicycle.

doctorSpoc · #49 09-14.-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadhouse

that's one of the things i've also had problems . i take my run at the front at about 20-22 and as i speed up a bit to get to the front (which you are not supposed to do, i think) i apparently don't slow down and ten minutes later when i look back, i'm all by myself. i guess that doesn't really count as pulling then.

i believe that the two in front ( side by side lines of about thirty to 100+ riders altogether, single file with the group i ride with) are supposed to pull off and slow down and the next in line is just that, next in line but i get impatient. that's a hard habit to break for myself anyway as i always want to be out front of the very front of anyone in the vicinity that is on a bicycle.

no, if no one is on your wheel that doesn't count as a pull.. lol.

have you just tried to indicate to the others that you're going to stay on longer... don't go faster just go longer or if you're going to accelerate do it slowly. at the end of your longer pull, even if it's not as fast you'll be just as tired and will want to get off... if it's a double line (two riders at the front at a time) just let your partner go back and you stay up there.

and no, you should not have to or purposely accelerate to get to the front you should wait for the rider on the front to slow down (it's also the rider at the fronts responsibility to actually slow down as well)... you just screwing the whole group up and cause holes, accelerations and decelerations by doing that.. you're just going to piss everyone off and deservedly so by doing that... when everything is smooth and tight the group moves along much faster and with less effort and that's the point of riding in the group in the first place.. doing your little acceleration just messes all that up...

edit - the accelerations and decelerations to fill holes also tends put people under distress and tired people doing these maneuvers can also tend to make things more potentially dangerous than they need to be as well.

roadhouse · #50 09-14.-2009

you're right, no doubt about it. i've pulled for about ten minutes at about 22 and then split from that group and bridged up to the a's. i had more energy that day after the ride than i have had in a long time.
but again, you're right. it is my ettiquette that needs, uhm, patience i guess. i'm planning on riding with a group this weekend and i'm sure i'll wanna talk about some more but if they are lolligagging then so help me Jesus....!

doctorSpoc · #51 09-14.-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadhouse

you're right, no doubt about it. i've pulled for about ten minutes at about 22 and then split from that group and bridged up to the a's. i had more energy that day after the ride than i have had in a long time.
but again, you're right. it is my ettiquette that needs, uhm, patience i guess. i'm planning on riding with a group this weekend and i'm sure i'll wanna talk about some more but if they are lolligagging then so help me Jesus....!

other thing is that maybe you're just in the wrong group.. if you've got so much ants in your pants and finding it annoyingly slow maybe it's time to start out with a faster group.. you don't want to screw up the group that you're in and piss people off, but you also want to get a good workout out of your ride as well.. and if you find that you're just sitting on your hands for long periods of time it might be time to start out with the "A" group or faster groups than you have been..

roadhouse · #52 09-14.-2009

agreed but it's been some time since i've ridden seriously so this first time back out (it's been over two months) i'll start with the second group again and see what i feel like at the time and maybe see if i can test my patience with them without pissing anyone off.

Rocket_Man · #53 09-14.-2009

Yep, I understand what you guys are saying...so, now I have this question...
Is there anything in particular that you can listen for/see/feel, that you are riding off the front of the group...unintentionally? I would assume if the sun is at your back you could see the shadow of the rider behind you, maybe. I would assume, if a rider pulling kept looking back that it would signal that he is ready to pull off and to be ready to take my pull. So, doing that wouldn't be a good idea...without actually pulling off.
Maybe, this is just something that comes with experience...and time with the group?

Yeah, the guy, on the last part of the climb, actually "pinned" me behind him. I was about in the middle of a 18" shoulder...or so. He rode right on the white line...basically blocking my way around him. Also, there was construction going on the road, which made everything a little tighter...cars passed kinda close. I know that I could have missed a pedal stroke, made sure I was clear (both of his wheel and cars) and went around him. But, I figured at that time...what would be the point, except to possibly make him mad and the situation more dangerous. Anyway, if he thinks that he got one up on me...so be it. He enjoyed the ride...as well did I. Just seemed a tish odd to me.

alienator · #54 09-16.-2009

One thing I look for is the atypical event, like two girls by the side of the road, locked in a tight embrace and a full penetration kiss.

doctorSpoc · #55 09-16.-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocket_Man

Yep, I understand what you guys are saying...so, now I have this question...
Is there anything in particular that you can listen for/see/feel, that you are riding off the front of the group...unintentionally? I would assume if the sun is at your back you could see the shadow of the rider behind you, maybe. I would assume, if a rider pulling kept looking back that it would signal that he is ready to pull off and to be ready to take my pull. So, doing that wouldn't be a good idea...without actually pulling off.
Maybe, this is just something that comes with experience...and time with the group?

you are allowed to talk... if the guy is coming past you why not just say... i'm good was just making sure everyone was on... don't make it more complicated than it needs to be... a quick peek under your armpit is the best way to know if the other riders a still there or not..

the signal to tell someone to pass you is a flick of the elbow, to actually wave them through, a momentary stop pedaling or just slow down and they will/should know to rolls past you. the later being what experienced riders especially those who know each other will do. the pace at the front of the group should be basically steady so if the guy on the front slows down (excepting hills, change of direction and wind etc..) when the guy in front slows down you roll past them.. that's how it's supposed to work and that's how you avoid annoying and inefficient accelerations & decelerations...

another thing that annoys me with newer riders is that they think they need to go parallel with you then move over as their rear wheel is past your front wheel... no.. just make a diagonal line so you end up in front of the guy your are passing.. this way you stay nice and tight to the group and continue to block the wind for those in both lines and the guy you are passing can grab some of your draft a lot sooner..

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode