Purchase Advice: "Road" vs "Comfort Road"

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Howdy.

I'm 48, been riding my ancient Bianchi hybrid for fitness (<10 miles, 3-4 times/week), and am
finally fed up with the poor fit, poor handling and weight. Living as I do in Sonoma County, CA, a
great place for bicycling, I want to be able to work my way up to longer rides, say 25-50 miles a
couple of times a month. Maybe even a Century some day.

So I've gone shopping. I began looking at the flat-bar-road/hybrid hybrids, such as the Specialized
Sirrus Comp. I rode three such bikes and concluded "Not Bad". Then I went down the street to the pro
shop, and rode a Specialized Sequoia "Comfort/Road" bike, and finally a LeMond Tourmalet. The LeMond
blew my doors off. It was so light and nimble I thought it was simultaneously part of my body and
part of the road.

The dilemma is this: Riding the LeMond was extraordinarily uncomfortable. I had the shop put on a
suspension seat post and this improved matters quite a bit, but the bike was still no match for the
comfort of the Sequoia. OTOH, the Sequoia--though vastly superior to my current ride--handled like a
blimp compared to the LeMond. I realize that a lot of the discomfort has to do with assuming a new
riding position and so forth. So I'm wondering:

--Does one's body get used to the relative discomfort of road riding, or is the "hair shirt" aspect
permanent, and part of the allure? The main pain was in my, how you say, perineum from the jarring
ride. My hands (between thumb and index finger) also hurt from gripping the handlebars. --Aside from
the seatpost and gel tape (or whatever it's called), are there any other "old fart" features I could
swap into the LeMond to make it more tolerable? --I noticed that the LeMond had 700x25 tires while
the Specialized had 700x26. I'm over 200 pounds and was wonder if bumping the tire thickness by a
millimeter might improve comfort and flat-avoidance. --Bottom line: "Pure" road bike or "Comfort"
road bike, what to do? Part of me sez get the LeMond; you'll adapt to the new position and rougher
ride. The other part of me sez; hey man, the LeMond is your midlife crisis bike. It'll eat you
alive. You know you'd be better off with the Specialized Sequoia Soft Sofa.

I must admit that one comment by the guy in the shop has clouded my judgement. After first
acknowledging that all the guys in the shop were bike snobs, he said that if I dared showed up at
any kind of organized event riding the Specialized Sequoia, well, there would be upthrust noses.
Not that!!

Opinions appreciated. Looking to spend about a grand.

Peter

Peter: There are some basic geometry differences between the "Road" & "Comfort" bikes, but most can
be overcome by changing out stems (in other words, you can usually get a similar position on a
"Road" bike that is considered a feature of the "Comfort" model).

But the biggest different you're probably noticing is in the tires. I believe the Specialized tires
run a bit wide for their indicated size, and the tires on the Tourmalet may be the opposite. So you
could be talking two very different ride characteristics in the tires alone. My suggestion would be
to try a "Road" bike with 28c tires (if Bontrager, which run a bit narrower than size would
indicate) and see how that goes.

By the way, I'm reluctant to suggest that one gets used to an uncomfortable position on a bike.
People sometimes avoid trying something entirely because they assume something will be
uncomfortable, and that's a different story. But if you get on a bike and it's supposedly set up for
you (fit properly) and doesn't feel good, don't assume it will get better down the road. Maybe your
butt will do better as you get some miles, but your arms & shoulders & neck & back... those
shouldn't be anything more than minor irritations, if even that. There shouldn't be anything about
your bike that keeps you from wanting to ride it... that's the hallmark of the right bike.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com (http://www.chainreactionbicycles.com/)

"xkred27" <vonyork@sonic.net> wrote in message news:G1PVb.107$_3.6729@typhoon.sonic.net...
> Howdy.
>
> I'm 48, been riding my ancient Bianchi hybrid for fitness (<10 miles, 3-4 times/week), and am
> finally fed up with the poor fit, poor handling and weight. Living as I do in Sonoma County, CA, a
> great place for bicycling,
I
> want to be able to work my way up to longer rides, say 25-50 miles a
couple
> of times a month. Maybe even a Century some day.
>
> So I've gone shopping. I began looking at the flat-bar-road/hybrid
hybrids,
> such as the Specialized Sirrus Comp. I rode three such bikes and
concluded
> "Not Bad". Then I went down the street to the pro shop, and rode a Specialized Sequoia
> "Comfort/Road" bike, and finally a LeMond Tourmalet. The LeMond blew my doors off. It was so light
> and nimble I thought it was simultaneously part of my body and part of the road.
>
> The dilemma is this: Riding the LeMond was extraordinarily uncomfortable. I had the shop put on a
> suspension seat post and this improved matters
quite
> a bit, but the bike was still no match for the comfort of the Sequoia. OTOH, the Sequoia--though
> vastly superior to my current ride--handled like
a
> blimp compared to the LeMond. I realize that a lot of the discomfort
has
> to do with assuming a new riding position and so forth. So I'm wondering:
>
> --Does one's body get used to the relative discomfort of road riding, or
is
> the "hair shirt" aspect permanent, and part of the allure? The main pain was in my, how you say,
> perineum from the jarring ride. My hands (between thumb and index finger) also hurt from gripping
> the handlebars. --Aside from the seatpost and gel tape (or whatever it's called), are
there
> any other "old fart" features I could swap into the LeMond to make it more tolerable? --I noticed
> that the LeMond had 700x25 tires while the Specialized had 700x26. I'm over 200 pounds and was
> wonder if bumping the tire thickness
by
> a millimeter might improve comfort and flat-avoidance. --Bottom line: "Pure" road bike or
> "Comfort" road bike, what to do? Part of me sez get the LeMond; you'll adapt to the new position
> and rougher
ride.
> The other part of me sez; hey man, the LeMond is your midlife crisis
bike.
> It'll eat you alive. You know you'd be better off with the Specialized Sequoia Soft Sofa.
>
> I must admit that one comment by the guy in the shop has clouded my judgement. After first
> acknowledging that all the guys in the shop were bike snobs, he said that if I dared showed up at
> any kind of organized
event
> riding the Specialized Sequoia, well, there would be upthrust noses. Not that!!
>
> Opinions appreciated. Looking to spend about a grand.
>
> Peter

"xkred27" <vonyork@sonic.net> wrote in
news:G1PVb.107$_3.6729@typhoon.sonic.net:
> --Does one's body get used to the relative discomfort of road riding, or is the "hair shirt"
> aspect permanent, and part of the allure? The main pain was in my, how you say, perineum from the
> jarring ride. My hands (between thumb and index finger) also hurt from gripping the handlebars.

A properly fitted road bike should be comfortable for many hours at a time if you have good fitness
and good flexibility. Can you bend down and touch your toes?

You can reduce most of the road shock by wearing padded gloves and padded shorts and using
moderately wide tires at a moderate air pressure (e.g., 25mm @ 100psi). Also, take advantage of the
many hand and seat positions by moving your hands around and periodically getting you butt off the
seat when you're climbing.

In article <G1PVb.107$_3.6729@typhoon.sonic.net>, vonyork@sonic.net says...

...

> The dilemma is this: Riding the LeMond was extraordinarily uncomfortable. I had the shop put on a
> suspension seat post and this improved matters quite a bit, but the bike was still no match for
> the comfort of the Sequoia. OTOH, the Sequoia--though vastly superior to my current ride--handled
> like a blimp compared to the LeMond. I realize that a lot of the discomfort has to do with
> assuming a new riding position and so forth. So I'm wondering:
>
> --Does one's body get used to the relative discomfort of road riding, or is the "hair shirt"
> aspect permanent, and part of the allure? The main pain was in my, how you say, perineum from the
> jarring ride. My hands (between thumb and index finger) also hurt from gripping the handlebars.
> --Aside from the seatpost and gel tape (or whatever it's called), are there any other "old fart"
> features I could swap into the LeMond to make it more tolerable?

A different saddle, as I discuss below.

> --I noticed that the LeMond had 700x25 tires while the Specialized had 700x26. I'm over 200 pounds
> and was wonder if bumping the tire thickness by a millimeter might improve comfort and flat-
> avoidance.

The main difference will be because of any air pressure difference, not the tire size by itself, and
that's easy to change.

> --Bottom line: "Pure" road bike or "Comfort" road bike, what to do? Part of me sez get the LeMond;
> you'll adapt to the new position and rougher ride. The other part of me sez; hey man, the LeMond
> is your midlife crisis bike. It'll eat you alive. You know you'd be better off with the
> Specialized Sequoia Soft Sofa.

If you like the handling and fit of the LeMond as much as you implied above, go with it; that "part
of your body" feel is very hard to find, and when you find a bike like that, you'll never be happy
on anything else. Then put on the suspension seat post, a different saddle (you'll probably want
that on either bike), and some gel tape. Make sure you get some good padded cycling gloves, too.

> I must admit that one comment by the guy in the shop has clouded my judgement. After first
> acknowledging that all the guys in the shop were bike snobs, he said that if I dared showed up at
> any kind of organized event riding the Specialized Sequoia, well, there would be upthrust noses.
> Not that!!
>
> Opinions appreciated. Looking to spend about a grand.

I'm 43, so you've only got a little bit on me <GG>

A new saddle with a cutout in the middle makes a *huge* difference in perineal pressure and the
resulting numbness (which you may not have experienced on a short test ride, but will certainly
experience on a long ride if the pressure bothers you on a short one). I have a Specialized BG2
saddle on my Fuji Touring road bike, with 25mm tires pumped up to 120 psi and no other suspension,
and it makes a big difference. No numbness at all on rides up to several hours. On my older bike, I
had an older model Specialized BG saddle, which was wider and was also nice, but the cutout didn't
extend quite as far forward, and I found that when I was down on the aero bars, it caused pressure
and numbness if I stayed there for long. As long as I stayed a little more upright, it was fine.

That said, saddles are hugely personal, and the saddle I swear _by_ may be the one you swear _at_,
so try several if they will let you.

And don't let the snobs get to you. I showed up at a group ride with my Fuji Touring in its full
winter coat (fenders, rack, light, etc), and a couple of guys kind of rolled their eyes, but once I
showed I could keep up, they became a lot more friendly (especially the one who runs a shop
carrying Fuji).

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

> A properly fitted road bike should be comfortable for many hours at a time
if
> you have good fitness and good flexibility. Can you bend down and touch
your
> toes?

I can't come close to touching my toes (unless I try to bounce my way down!), but can spend hour
upon hour comfortably on a road bike. It's a myth that you need even "good" flexibility to ride a
road bike.

Of course, I'm not trying to emulate George Hincapie, with perhaps a 6" drop from his seat to his
handlebars! But I'm also not in the Rivendell camp with chopper-style bars either; at 6' in height,
I have about a 2.5 inch drop from my seat to the bars.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com (http://www.chainreactionbicycles.com/)

On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 17:01:26 GMT, "xkred27" <vonyork@sonic.net> from wrote:

>--Does one's body get used to the relative discomfort of road riding, or is the "hair shirt" aspect
>permanent, and part of the allure? The main pain was in my, how you say, perineum from the jarring
>ride. My hands (between thumb and index finger) also hurt from gripping the handlebars. --Aside
>from the seatpost and gel tape (or whatever it's called), are there any other "old fart" features I
>could swap into the LeMond to make it more tolerable?

There are a number of modifications, easy ones, you can make to the bike. First, you can raise the
handlebars. Most bike shops set them up low for racing instead of high for comfort. Also, get
cycling shorts. The chamois inside will comfort you for hours. Also, get some padded gloves; this
reduces road shock transferred up your arms. Saddles are a highly individual preference. I have the
most scary looking saddle there is almost on one of my bikes -- it's just a flat piece of plastic
and leather that looks like it would be extremely painful. Yet, it is one of the most comfortable
saddles I have ever used. So, you may find yourself experimenting with saddles to find one you like.
Also, you shouldn't put too much weight on your arms; the best advice I've heard is to keep them
loose, as is if you were about to move them to pick up a chess piece. As the last suggestion, you
should learn different riding positions and switch frequently between them. Learn to ride in the
drops, on the hoods and on the bars, and learn to ride skootched back on the saddle and a little to
the front.

>--I noticed that the LeMond had 700x25 tires while the Specialized had 700x26. I'm over 200 pounds
>and was wonder if bumping the tire thickness by a millimeter might improve comfort and flat-
>avoidance.

Thicker tires at lower pressure are more comfortable, but the price you pay is grater rolling
resistance and weight, which both slow you down. That's not going to be a big concern right off, but
when you get fit and want ot start riding longer distances faster ...

>--Bottom line: "Pure" road bike or "Comfort" road bike, what to do? Part of me sez get the LeMond;
>you'll adapt to the new position and rougher ride. The other part of me sez; hey man, the LeMond is
>your midlife crisis bike. It'll eat you alive. You know you'd be better off with the Specialized
>Sequoia Soft Sofa.

Get the Tourmalet!

--
xrinafzvgu23@lnubb.pbz
What are the sections sections of?
30

vonyork@sonic.net wrote:

> --Does one's body get used to the relative discomfort of road riding, or is the "hair shirt"
> aspect permanent, and part of the allure? The main pain was in my, how you say, perineum from the
> jarring ride. My hands (between thumb and index finger) also hurt from gripping the handlebars.

Some discomfort at first is normal, but if it's permanent there is something wrong.

If you experience pain in your perineum, you likely need a different saddle. Your weight should be
almost completely on your "sit bones." You should also be aware that contrary to popular belief,
highly padded saddles are often more uncomfortable in the long run, since they distribute pressure
to your soft tissues where you definitely don't want it.

Do you wear cycling gloves? If not, they're cheap, and can make a significant difference to hand
comfort. They're also good road-rash insurance, should you ever happen to land palm-first. (Although
I don't think I've ever gone down this way, so I'm not speaking from experience.)

> --Aside from the seatpost and gel tape (or whatever it's called), are there any other "old fart"
> features I could swap into the LeMond to make it more tolerable? --I noticed that the LeMond had
> 700x25 tires while the Specialized had 700x26. I'm over 200 pounds and was wonder if bumping the
> tire thickness by a millimeter might improve comfort and flat-avoidance.

I doubt wider tires will improve flat avoidance, but they can definitely improve comfort. You can
get away with lower air pressure in fatter tires without risk of pinch flats.

> --Bottom line: "Pure" road bike or "Comfort" road bike, what to do? Part of me sez get the
> LeMond; you'll adapt to the new position and rougher ride. The other part of me sez; hey man, the
> LeMond is your midlife crisis bike. It'll eat you alive. You know you'd be better off with the
> Specialized Sequoia Soft Sofa.

It's hard to say what will be better for you, but for myself the road bike is actually more
comfortable over long distances because of the wider variety of hand positions available with drop-
bars. It sounds like you're not interested in these, but you might consider trying them, with the
tops of the bars raised to saddle level or higher.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Thou hast seen nothing yet. -- Miguel de Cervantes

In article <yy7owu6wf484.fsf@marge.cs.sfu.ca>, bclewis@cs.sfu.ca says...

...

> It's hard to say what will be better for you, but for myself the road bike is actually more
> comfortable over long distances because of the wider variety of hand positions available with drop-
> bars. It sounds like you're not interested in these, but you might consider trying them, with the
> tops of the bars raised to saddle level or higher.

The Sequoiah has drop bars (most models, anyway). It was the last finalist to be eliminated when I
was deciding on a new bike.

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

You have been sent a lot of good advice, all of which assumes that the bike is about the proper
size. It may not be. It sounds to me like the bike is simply the wrong frame size, or not set up
correctly for you or both. I would go to another store and try the same model of bike. It could be
that the store is just trying to fit you on a frame that is the wrong size. If this is the case
there is almost nothing that can make it fit properly. When it fits you will know it. I have tried
to fit myself to frames that are too a small, and have come to the conclusion that if a bike does
not fit, you will not ride it. It would be better to buy a TV set that you use, than a Bike that
you don't.

Ernie

xkred27 wrote:

> Howdy.
>
> I'm 48, been riding my ancient Bianchi hybrid for fitness (<10 miles, 3-4 times/week), and am
> finally fed up with the poor fit, poor handling and weight. Living as I do in Sonoma County, CA, a
> great place for bicycling, I want to be able to work my way up to longer rides, say 25-50 miles a
> couple of times a month. Maybe even a Century some day.
>
> So I've gone shopping. I began looking at the flat-bar-road/hybrid hybrids, such as the
> Specialized Sirrus Comp. I rode three such bikes and concluded "Not Bad". Then I went down the
> street to the pro shop, and rode a Specialized Sequoia "Comfort/Road" bike, and finally a LeMond
> Tourmalet. The LeMond blew my doors off. It was so light and nimble I thought it was
> simultaneously part of my body and part of the road.
>
> The dilemma is this: Riding the LeMond was extraordinarily uncomfortable. I had the shop put on a
> suspension seat post and this improved matters quite a bit, but the bike was still no match for
> the comfort of the Sequoia. OTOH, the Sequoia--though vastly superior to my current ride--handled
> like a blimp compared to the LeMond. I realize that a lot of the discomfort has to do with
> assuming a new riding position and so forth. So I'm wondering:
>
> --Does one's body get used to the relative discomfort of road riding, or is the "hair shirt"
> aspect permanent, and part of the allure? The main pain was in my, how you say, perineum from
> the jarring ride. My hands (between thumb and index finger) also hurt from gripping the
> handlebars. --Aside from the seatpost and gel tape (or whatever it's called), are there any
> other "old fart" features I could swap into the LeMond to make it more tolerable? --I noticed
> that the LeMond had 700x25 tires while the Specialized had 700x26. I'm over 200 pounds and was
> wonder if bumping the tire thickness by a millimeter might improve comfort and flat-avoidance.
> --Bottom line: "Pure" road bike or "Comfort" road bike, what to do? Part of me sez get the
> LeMond; you'll adapt to the new position and rougher ride. The other part of me sez; hey man,
> the LeMond is your midlife crisis bike. It'll eat you alive. You know you'd be better off with
> the Specialized Sequoia Soft Sofa.
>
> I must admit that one comment by the guy in the shop has clouded my judgement. After first
> acknowledging that all the guys in the shop were bike snobs, he said that if I dared showed up at
> any kind of organized event riding the Specialized Sequoia, well, there would be upthrust noses.
> Not that!!
>
> Opinions appreciated. Looking to spend about a grand.
>
> Peter

On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 17:01:26 GMT, "xkred27" <vonyork@sonic.net>
wrote:
>I'm 48, been riding my ancient Bianchi hybrid for fitness (<10 miles, 3-4 times/week), and am
>finally fed up with the poor fit, poor handling and weight. Living as I do in Sonoma County, CA, a
>great place for bicycling, I want to be able to work my way up to longer rides, say 25-50 miles a
>couple of times a month. Maybe even a Century some day.
>
>--Does one's body get used to the relative discomfort of road riding, or is the "hair shirt" aspect
>permanent, and part of the allure? The main pain

Yes, and yes. A little bit of each. However, you should seek comfort.

>--Aside from the seatpost and gel tape (or whatever it's called), are there any other "old fart"
>features I could swap into the LeMond to make it more tolerable?

David Kerber's reply summarizes this nicely.

>--I noticed that the LeMond had 700x25 tires while the Specialized had 700x26. I'm over 200 pounds
>and was wonder if bumping the tire thickness by a millimeter might improve comfort and flat-
>avoidance.

Chances are, the tires in question are more than one millimeter different, due to the measurements
being less than accurate. Air pressure makes a big difference too.

That said, you can get more comfortable tires. I weigh 210 and feel that my Hutchinson Carbon Comp
700x23 tires are very nice at 125 psi, but I'm half your age.

Beware that the racing bike may not have adequate clearance for larger tires.

>--Bottom line: "Pure" road bike or "Comfort" road bike, what to do? Part of me sez get the LeMond;
>you'll adapt to the new position and rougher ride.

Get the LeMond. Adapt the bike to you first, don't adapt you to the bike. Get the suspension
seatpost, and see if you can find a suspension handlebar stem. Get a different saddle and gel bar
tape. There is also an under-tape product that makes the bars thicker and more cushioned. Get padded
gloves and shorts.

Consider the geometry of the bike, too; if it's too aggressive, you'll find new discomforts on long
rides that you otherwise wouldn't find.

>I must admit that one comment by the guy in the shop has clouded my judgement. After first
>acknowledging that all the guys in the shop were bike snobs, he said that if I dared showed up at
>any kind of organized event riding the Specialized Sequoia, well, there would be upthrust noses.
>Not that!!

If you can ride with them, their noses will be busy pointing forward/down. If you can ride faster
than them, then fart into their upthrust noses. ;) However, if _properly_fit_ and made more plush,
the racing bike will be nice.

A sport-touring or lightweight touring bike might be something to consider, too. Such bikes offer
clearance for larger tires, too.

At half your age, I couldn't even go far or long on my racing bike until I made it fit _me_ by
getting a new stem that raised my handlebar significantly. I had the same hand/perineal
pain/numbness issues that you described.

However, I still have too much weight on my hands and shoulders. I've bought some Syntace C2
aerobars that look very comfortable; I can't wait to try them, and see if the radically different
additional position will make the difference.
--
Rick Onanian

On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 16:53:19 -0500, Rick Onanian <spamsink@cox.net>
wrote:
>At half your age, I couldn't even go far or long on my racing bike until I made it fit _me_ by
>getting a new stem that raised my handlebar significantly. I had the same hand/perineal
>pain/numbness issues that you described.

Oh yeah, and neck pain from having to crank my head too far back to be able to see down the
road, too.
--
Rick Onanian

[Dang, kept replying to the poster only, when I meant to reply to the group. Maybe this
time....Peter]

Ernie,

I appreciate this advice. My opinion thus far (for what that opinion is worth) is that these guys
are probably the best in town. The same guy owns two shops in town, one a "family" shop and one a
"pro" shop. It's the "pro" shop I'm dealing with. I've dealt with three sales guys and each one has
been extraordinarily knowledgeable and infinitely patient. They've literally spent hours with me
already. They've listened to my concerns and heard my comments about my body size (long torso, short
legs--a body type which I've read is well-suited to LeMond geometry with its long top tubes). We've
discussed crank lengths vis a vis femur size, clips vs clipless, the affect of seat and top tube
angles on "feel", why geometry specs can be misleading (because different manufacturers measure from
different frame endpoints, etc.), and on and on. During all these discussions, a steady stream of
what looked like hard core bike enthusiasts came in and out of the store for various reasons.

I will say this: For my test rides, they did not do a full and formal fit. They used tape measures
on me and on the bike, made adjustements only to seat height and seat front/back position (well,
they flipped the handlebars, too), repeated the process after watching me ride around the parking
lot, then sent me out for my test rides. When I purchase the bike, I'll get a full formal fitting
(free with bike purchase, 75 bucks otherwise), at which time we may swap components--like handlebar
stems and so forth--and maybe even move up a frame size in order to get the right fit. It sounds
like a highly meticulous process.

I have asked repeatedly "Is it possible for a bike to simply be unfit for a certain body, tweaks
and component swaps notwithstanding?" They said, "Sure it's possible. But we know we can fit you to
the LeMond. We can see it's a good fit. There's nothing grossly out of whack in how you appear on
the bike."

So I know at this point my fit is a ballpark fit, not a complete one.

If there's anything in the foregoing account which raises red flags in your mind, please let me
know. And if there's anything I should be requesting or questioning that I haven't, any advice
appreciated.

Again, thanks for your comments.

Peter

P.S. Re your comment "When it fits, you'll know it." Ordinarily, I'd agree. But since the road bike
posture is so new and unfamiliar to me, I've struggled to separate issues of poor fit from
issues of simple unfamiliarity. That's been at the heart of my indecision here.

"E. Willson" <ewillson@patmedia.net> wrote in message news:4027F853.62730F44@patmedia.net...
> You have been sent a lot of good advice, all of which assumes that the
bike is
> about the proper size. It may not be. It sounds to me like the bike is
simply
> the wrong frame size, or not set up correctly for you or both. I would go
to
> another store and try the same model of bike. It could be that the store
is just
> trying to fit you on a frame that is the wrong size. If this is the case
there
> is almost nothing that can make it fit properly. When it fits you will
know it.
> I have tried to fit myself to frames that are too a small, and have come
to the
> conclusion that if a bike does not fit, you will not ride it. It would be
better
> to buy a TV set that you use, than a Bike that you don't.
>
> Ernie
>
> xkred27 wrote:
>
> > Howdy.
> >
> > I'm 48, been riding my ancient Bianchi hybrid for fitness (<10 miles,
3-4
> > times/week), and am finally fed up with the poor fit, poor handling and weight. Living as I do
> > in Sonoma County, CA, a great place for
bicycling, I
> > want to be able to work my way up to longer rides, say 25-50 miles a
couple
> > of times a month. Maybe even a Century some day.
> >
> > So I've gone shopping. I began looking at the flat-bar-road/hybrid
hybrids,
> > such as the Specialized Sirrus Comp. I rode three such bikes and conclu
ded
> > "Not Bad". Then I went down the street to the pro shop, and rode a Specialized Sequoia
> > "Comfort/Road" bike, and finally a LeMond Tourmalet. The LeMond blew my doors off. It was so
> > light and nimble I thought it
was
> > simultaneously part of my body and part of the road.
> >
> > The dilemma is this: Riding the LeMond was extraordinarily
uncomfortable.
> > I had the shop put on a suspension seat post and this improved matters
quite
> > a bit, but the bike was still no match for the comfort of the Sequoia. OTOH, the Sequoia--though
> > vastly superior to my current ride--handled
like a
> > blimp compared to the LeMond. I realize that a lot of the discomfort
has
> > to do with assuming a new riding position and so forth. So I'm
wondering:
> >
> > --Does one's body get used to the relative discomfort of road riding, or
is
> > the "hair shirt" aspect permanent, and part of the allure? The main
pain
> > was in my, how you say, perineum from the jarring ride. My hands
(between
> > thumb and index finger) also hurt from gripping the handlebars. --Aside from the seatpost and
> > gel tape (or whatever it's called), are
there
> > any other "old fart" features I could swap into the LeMond to make it
more
> > tolerable? --I noticed that the LeMond had 700x25 tires while the Specialized had 700x26. I'm
> > over 200 pounds and was wonder if bumping the tire
thickness by
> > a millimeter might improve comfort and flat-avoidance. --Bottom line: "Pure" road bike or
> > "Comfort" road bike, what to do?
Part
> > of me sez get the LeMond; you'll adapt to the new position and rougher
ride.
> > The other part of me sez; hey man, the LeMond is your midlife crisis
bike.
> > It'll eat you alive. You know you'd be better off with the Specialized Sequoia Soft Sofa.
> >
> > I must admit that one comment by the guy in the shop has clouded my judgement. After first
> > acknowledging that all the guys in the shop were bike snobs, he said that if I dared showed up
> > at any kind of organized
event
> > riding the Specialized Sequoia, well, there would be upthrust noses.
Not
> > that!!
> >
> > Opinions appreciated. Looking to spend about a grand.
> >
> > Peter

Funny you should mention that one. One bike store customer overheard a conversation I was having
with the sales guy and commented that he got a case of aching eyeballs because instead of craning or
lifting his neck to see down the road, he just rolled his eyes up in the sockets. It was around that
time that I realized that getting a good fit would take a fair amount of time and effort!

Peter

"Rick Onanian" <spamsink@cox.net> wrote in message
news:vq0g20tbt4nv4ga58p78p39med9icc8efb@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 16:53:19 -0500, Rick Onanian <spamsink@cox.net> wrote:
> >At half your age, I couldn't even go far or long on my racing bike until I made it fit _me_ by
> >getting a new stem that raised my handlebar significantly. I had the same hand/perineal
> >pain/numbness issues that you described.
>
> Oh yeah, and neck pain from having to crank my head too far back to be able to see down the
> road, too.
> --
> Rick Onanian

In article <9evf20th0vo91c45irgmna582neaoo7m85@4ax.com>, spamsink@cox.net says...

...

> Get the LeMond. Adapt the bike to you first, don't adapt you to the bike. Get the suspension
> seatpost, and see if you can find a suspension handlebar stem. Get a different saddle and gel
> bar tape.

I didn't know there was such a thing as a suspension stem.

> There is also an under-tape product that makes the bars thicker and more cushioned. Get padded
> gloves and shorts.

Good point; I had forgotten about the extra handlebar padding.

...

> If you can ride with them, their noses will be busy pointing forward/down. If you can ride faster
> than them, then fart into their

Yep. If you can ride with them, they'll shut up in a hurry.

> upthrust noses. ;) However, if _properly_fit_ and made more plush, the racing bike will be nice.
>
> A sport-touring or lightweight touring bike might be something to consider, too. Such bikes offer
> clearance for larger tires, too.
>
> At half your age, I couldn't even go far or long on my racing bike until I made it fit _me_ by
> getting a new stem that raised my handlebar significantly. I had the same hand/perineal
> pain/numbness issues that you described.
>
> However, I still have too much weight on my hands and shoulders. I've bought some Syntace C2
> aerobars that look very comfortable; I can't wait to try them, and see if the radically different
> additional position will make the difference.

In my case, the height was ok, but I needed to move them back about
1/2" closer to the seat. Don't leave the shop until you think it's right, but remember that as you
ride more, you may find you need to more adjusting as your body adapts.

> --
> Rick Onanian
>

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

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In article <N2UVb.154$_3.6985@typhoon.sonic.net>, vonyork@sonic.net says...

...

> I have asked repeatedly "Is it possible for a bike to simply be unfit for a certain body, tweaks
> and component swaps notwithstanding?" They said, "Sure it's possible. But we know we can fit you
> to the LeMond. We can see it's a good fit. There's nothing grossly out of whack in how you appear
> on the bike."
>
> So I know at this point my fit is a ballpark fit, not a complete one.
>
> If there's anything in the foregoing account which raises red flags in your mind, please let me
> know. And if there's anything I should be requesting or questioning that I haven't, any advice
> appreciated.
>
> Again, thanks for your comments.

Unless they're completely BS'ing you, which seems unlikely given that you already know something
about cycling, that sounds like a green light rather than a red flag. Many people will say "shop
for the shop, not the bike", and it looks like you've found a good one. You got a pretty good
service, getting a basic fit check just for a test ride; many people don't get more than a
standover height check.

...

> > > "Not Bad". Then I went down the street to the pro shop, and rode a Specialized Sequoia
> > > "Comfort/Road" bike, and finally a LeMond Tourmalet. The LeMond blew my doors off. It was so
> > > light and nimble I thought it
> was
> > > simultaneously part of my body and part of the road.

To me, this sounds like the key to your bike choice. If the bike fit was grossly off, it wouldn't
handle like that because your weight distribution and body angles would be all wrong. It sounds like
the uncomfortable ride was due to it being stiff rather than a bad fit, and the stiffness can be
fixed with the various components already discussed.

...

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

In article <yy7owu6wf484.fsf@marge.cs.sfu.ca>,
Benjamin Lewis <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> wrote:

> vonyork@sonic.net wrote:
>
> > --Does one's body get used to the relative discomfort of road riding, or is the "hair shirt"
> > aspect permanent, and part of the allure? The main pain was in my, how you say, perineum from
> > the jarring ride. My hands (between thumb and index finger) also hurt from gripping the
> > handlebars.

> Do you wear cycling gloves? If not, they're cheap, and can make a significant difference to hand
> comfort. They're also good road-rash insurance, should you ever happen to land palm-first.
> (Although I don't think I've ever gone down this way, so I'm not speaking from experience.)

They work really, really well. Trust me. Not so good at preventing wrist injuries.

--
Ryan Cousineau, rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

But isn't there room for compromise? I'm 47, about the age of the OP,5' 7", and my bars have gone
from about 2 inches below the seat when I was younger to roughly 3/4 of an inch below. For someone
who has no racing ambitions, and feels satisfied with a 6 to 6½ hour century, this should work fine.

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:<UtPVb.10851$e9.5918@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>... (snip)
> Of course, I'm not trying to emulate George Hincapie, with perhaps a 6" drop from his seat to his
> handlebars! But I'm also not in the Rivendell camp with chopper-style bars either; at 6' in
> height, I have about a 2.5 inch drop from my seat to the bars.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com (http://www.chainreactionbicycles.com/)

> But isn't there room for compromise? I'm 47, about the age of the OP,5' 7", and my bars have gone
> from about 2 inches below the seat when I was younger to roughly 3/4 of an inch below. For
> someone who has no racing ambitions, and feels satisfied with a 6 to 6½ hour century, this should
> work fine.

It's not about compromise; it's about whatever you find comfortable. I have no problems with setting
the bars level with the saddle if that's what it takes for somebody to ride comfortably. The main
downside to a very high bar is that it makes climbing more difficult, but so what? If the
alternative is to not ride, put the bars wherever you need to!

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com (http://www.chainreactionbicycles.com/)

"Kaputnik" <kaputnik.ct@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:91eb79fc.0402092001.1b49e096@posting.google.com...
> But isn't there room for compromise? I'm 47, about the age of the OP,5' 7", and my bars have gone
> from about 2 inches below the seat when I was younger to roughly 3/4 of an inch below. For
> someone who has no racing ambitions, and feels satisfied with a 6 to 6½ hour century, this should
> work fine.
>
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:<UtPVb.10851$e9.5918@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>...
> (snip)
> > Of course, I'm not trying to emulate George Hincapie, with perhaps a 6"
drop
> > from his seat to his handlebars! But I'm also not in the Rivendell camp with chopper-style bars
> > either; at 6' in height, I have about a 2.5 inch drop from my seat to the bars.
> >
> > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com (http://www.chainreactionbicycles.com/)

>-Does one's body get used to the relative discomfort of road riding, or is the "hair shirt"
>aspect permanent, and part of the allure? The main pain was in my, how you say, perineum from the
>jarring ride.

>My hands (between thumb and index finger) also hurt from gripping the handlebars. --Aside from the
>seatpost and gel tape (or whatever it's called), are there any other "old fart" features I could

>swap into the LeMond to make it more tolerable?

Well, at first the seat on a racing bike is not a fun thing. It takes awhile for your muscles to
tighten up. Seats are funny too. I got a gel seat when I started out. I bought a new bike with a
nasty looking italian saddle but I tried it. It was WONDERFUL! I rode that sucker until it wore out.

The hands are not that much of a problem for me. Move your hands around to different places on the
handlebars. Wear padded gloves. You can even get padded tape for the handlebars and that helps too.

Raising the handlebars to about level with the saddle should improve your comfort. If you like you
can run the bars an inch or two below the saddle but most bikes are set up even lower then that
which is pretty nasty for most riders.

Riding a road bike should be pretty comfortable for long periods of time. Now people with bad backs
seem to have complaints but even most of those people can do a couple of hours without a problem.
Oh, by "bad back" I mean really bad as in had surgery and will have again bad.

>--I noticed that the LeMond had 700x25 tires while the Specialized had 700x26. I'm over 200
>pounds and was wonder if bumping the tire thickness by a millimeter might improve comfort and flat-
>avoidance.

I ride 700X25 and they do fine with me and my weight is down now, but I do get up into the range you
mention. A bigger tire will give a nicer ride, wear longer, and avoid flats somewhat. I have seen
riders of your size riding 700X20, but I really would really think that the plus 200 lb cyclist
should go with 700X23. I do the 700X25 because I put in a bunch of miles and the small gain in
performance just is not worth it to me.

>--Bottom line: "Pure" road bike or "Comfort" road bike, what to do?

Usually I would suggest the "comfort" bike. But you obviously love the handling of the Lemond. The
"blimp" comment about the comfort bike tells me that you will not be happy riding a blimp.

>he said that if I dared showed up at any kind of organized event riding the Specialized Sequoia,
>well, there would be upthrust noses.

I guess there are people who do that. Really, I try not to respond that way. It really is the person
and not the bike. Anyone on a bike beats a motorist all hollow in my book.

Besides, bikes do not make the rider. My first bike was a touring bike. I showed up at this ride and
I did not know anyone. They all had top end bikes. All racing bikes. They all had the latest gear
too. I was quite intimidating. We started out and I quickly realized that I would have no trouble
keeping up. I noticed they were giving me the eye though. After a bit we hit some hills and I
motored away from them. I checked back and saw them form a paceline and try to chase me down and I
had no trouble in holding them off and that was solo. So just because a person can buy sharp looking
gear does not really mean anything and any cyclist should know this.

In article <20040210094600.19265.00001333@mb-m26.aol.com>, pbwalther@aol.com says...

...

> >he said that if I dared showed up at any kind of organized event riding the Specialized Sequoia,
> >well, there would be upthrust noses.
>
> I guess there are people who do that. Really, I try not to respond that way. It really is the
> person and not the bike. Anyone on a bike beats a motorist all hollow in my book.
>
> Besides, bikes do not make the rider. My first bike was a touring bike. I showed up at this ride
> and I did not know anyone. They all had top end bikes. All racing bikes. They all had the latest
> gear too. I was quite intimidating. We started out and I quickly realized that I would have no
> trouble keeping up. I noticed they were giving me the eye though. After a bit we hit some hills
> and I motored away from them. I checked back and saw them form a paceline and try to chase me down
> and I had no trouble in holding them off and that was

They probably didn't roll their eyes at you after that, either. That was similar to my experience:
show that you can keep up and most of the upthrust noses disappear. There'll always be a few, but
they are easy to ignore when they're struggling just to hold your wheel <GGG>.

--
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