To the ass I almost ran over today

Scott Eiler

2WheelR wrote:

> Bartow W. Riggs wrote:
>
>> Was the light green? Was it a stop sign? If it was
>> a green light did you forget that the cyclist was
>> overtaking you? Did you signal that you were
>> turning right?
>
> Stop sign, one way street into traffic circle, nowhere to
> go but right.

Not that it's important to anyone that I determine guilt
here, but... did the cyclist observe the stop sign? Did he
slop into your lane? Did you slop into his?

--
-------- Scott Eiler B{D> --------
http://www.eilertech.com/ --------

"It seemed an unlikely spot for a sensitive songwriter from
Greenwich Village... She ordered the 20-ounce steak." -- Lin
Brehmer, Chicago DJ, describing his meeting in a steakhouse
with Suzanne Vega.

2wheelr

Craig Brossman wrote:

> 2WheelR wrote:
>
>
>> You make every cyclist look bad by your behavior. It
>> would be a service to cyclists everywhere, I think, if
>> you stopped being such an ass.
>
>
> I ride a lot, I also drive. I applaud your post here,
> especially the fact that you came back to continue the
> discussion. I have encountered cyclist who are not very
> well behaved, while on my bike and in my car. More often,
> I have encountered badly behaving motorists.
>
> No real need to comment on the incident, it is difficult
> to determine who was at fault, from my POV, the important
> thing is that you thought about it enough to post here and
> discuss the issue.
>
> Thanks, being a thoughtful motorist is about all any of us
> can ask. That and don't get impatient because a biker
> holds you up for 10 seconds because of their riding. I
> guess that is the same as being thoughtful.

Truth be told, I am very sympathetic to cyclists (and
motorcyclists, and pedestrians, for that matter) and try
always to be cognizant of the challenges they face
navigating streets ruled by cars.

I _am_ a cyclist (really) 3 double centuries,6 centuries, a
45 mile commute when I can, 300 or so recreational miles a
week on the bike(s), which I (don't mind saying) *lovingly*
built myself. I love bikes, and I love the comraderie of
fellow cyclists.

I'm the guy who calls out to folks waiting with their bikes
on the roadside to see if they a hand, whether I'm
driving,cycling, or going by on the motorcycle. I once
ferried a guy on the back of my motorcycle while he held
onto his mangled frame. He had fallen of the back of his
group and was miles from their next stop,walking in cleats
with blood running down his leg; he felt like superman, tho
when we passed his group doing 80. Fastest he'd ever gone
wearing lycra.

I do it for others, as others have done for me.

Yeah, I've had folks yell get 'off the road', or throw stuff
(big stuff) at me, frankly I have a pretty thick skin.
Sometimes they honk to pass when they are right on me, and I
may or may not be yielding the lane depending on whether I
can do so safely. I assert my right to as much of the lane
as I need, no more, no less.

They honk when I'm at the first at the light going straight,
and they want to turn right on red. In the same situation,
they wouldn't dream of honking at a car to let they get by.
But I'm just a cyclist. They squeeze by me in my lane, even
though it's a 4 lane road, and they could just as easily
shift over with a power steering assisted flick of the
wrist. But I'm just a cyclist.

I once was on a motorcycle, stopped at a red light when I
heard screaming tires from behind me. a car swerved around
me and shot into the intersection at about 25 MPH, coming to
a stop. The driver looked terrified as she rolled down her
window and said "I didn't see you there, at all" This was
broad daylight, my taillight is about a foot wide (no joke),
and I'm not a small guy. I understand something about the
lack of cognition most 2 wheelers face from motorists.

I spend *A LOT* of time considering how a vulnerable
person(cyclist,motorcyclist) can utilize things like lane
position to mitigate risks and maximize visibility. If
anyone cares to ask, I'd be happy to share.

I didn't identify myself as a cyclist when I posted,
partly because I didn't want to spend 'privilege' on this
thread. Common courtesy isn't just for exchanges between
cyclists. It hardly mattered the the jerk cyclist that I
was myself a cyclist.

When I told him (through his rant) that I put more miles on
my bike than I do on my car, he replied "Then you spent too
much money on your bike!", as if I had boasted of how
expensive my bike was. weird.

Frankly, I think the guy had a huge chip on his shoulder,
and had it in for me from the second we almost (physically)
crossed paths. I wasn't anything to him other than a
collection of his prejudices about guys in cars (heaven
forbid, a nice car). Yeah, it cuts both ways, motorists are
jerks to cyclists, and vice versa. I've probably even been
that guy at one time or another, though I hope not recently.
I never expected to be on the receiving end of ..... what...
the balkanization of the roadway?

In my fantasy, the jerk would have seen my message in this
group, and maybe something would have clicked. Naive and
unlikely, I'm sure, but I needed to say something. I fully
expected to be set upon by folks here for being a bad car
guy and a bicycle hater, and fat (THE GUY CALLED ME FAT!
ouch. Can I help it if ice cream is like cyclist rocket
fuel, and I've been on the launchpad all winter). Oh, I left
out yuppie and vain and _fill in the blank_

Instead I pretty much got reason and discourse, some support
and sympathy. You folks are a credit to the bike and
yourselves. Thanks for renewing my somewhat shaken faith.

Now I'm going to go for a ride (after I fuel up)

see ya, and thanks, R

Bill Blum

AustinMN wrote:

> Would he take my all-expenses, no-income daughter off my
> hands (the one with all the school loans that I co-signed
> for and not a single passed course)

I'm 18 days from graduation, and I've got classmates
still unsure if they're going to meet the 2.0 GPA
graduation cutoff...

Wonders never cease...

- bill blum

Bran

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@mousepotato.com> spake thusly on or about Tue, 27
Apr 2004 14:56:37 UTC

-> ut in some stop-and-go situations -- or some slow-down-and-speed-
up -> situations -- you could have a car barely exceed the
cyclist's speed, -> slowly pass him, then suddenly have to
slow down. Certainly we can't -> expect the cyclist to drop
back, merge left, pass on the left, and merge -> back right
every time that happens? ->

I would, as the cyclist, take the lane and be part of
traffic which would offend a driver because it could not be
6" from the bumper of the car in front of me. this is
assuming that there is no horrific thing like a bike lane
whivch would permit me to carry on up the right side of the
stalled traffic flow.

--
I hurt before the ride so fibro gives me a head start on the
rest of the pack. silver lining?
bran.everseeking@invalid.net

Frank Krygowski

Rick Onanian wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:56:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@mousepotato.com> wrote:
>
>>But in some stop-and-go situations -- or some slow-down-and-speed-
>>up situations -- you could have a car barely exceed the
>>cyclist's speed, slowly pass him, then suddenly have to
>>slow down. Certainly we can't expect the cyclist to drop
>>back, merge left, pass on the left, and merge back right
>>every time that happens?
>
>
> The cyclist should take the lane. Isn't that obvious? Why
> not take the lane if going the same speed as the rest of
> the traffic?
>
> It would seem obvious to me that it's unsafe to pass on
> the right in most situations, including the one you
> mention, which would probably be in the context of short
> city blocks (and the accompanying intersections).

Actually, it's been more likely to happen to me on the
congested four lane near my home. There are plenty of spots
where there's noplace for cars to turn right.

>
> Maybe there's something I missed here.

Probably the dynamics of the transient situation. I've had
it develop like this:

Wide lane, traffic's moving (say) 30 mph, I'm doing 20 mph,
they're passing me. Suddenly a clot forms ahead. The car
alongside me, who'd just been passing me, hits his brakes
and drops to 15, then maybe to 10. Then the clot loosens,
and he's back up to 25 and 30.

Should I really be obligated to hit my brakes and never gain
any ground on him, despite the fact that _my_ travel space
is clear and unobstructed? He won't have forgotten about me,
and he can probably see my every move. I'm in no danger at
all from him, unless he's purposely malicious.

I'm perhaps in very slight danger if I pass the _next_ car
on the right; but if there are no drives, etc. for him to
turn right, even that is minimal.

This is not a common occurrence for me, but I think the
letter of the law is uselessly restrictive in this
situation. Taking the lane is, strictly speaking, of
questionable legality anyway, given that they may be up to
30 mph in a second or two. And I can't sprint that fast any
more. (Well, not for long.)

I think what it comes down to is, a wide lane functions
pretty much as two lanes when a car and a bike are side by
side, or when the car's passing the bike. I think there are
plenty of times it's reasonable to treat it as two lanes
when the bike's passing a car. You've got to be careful, but
I think it shouldn't be illegal.

--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot
com. Substitute cc dot ysu dot edu]

Tom Keats

In article <408e7483$1@news.ysu.edu>,
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@mousepotato.com> writes:

> Sure, the cyclist "isn't forced to pass" as Austin
> suggests. But then the cyclist would be ratcheted back in
> traffic every time such a thing occurred. He'd get further
> and further behind where he would have been, despite
> plenty of clear, empty rideable space in front of him.
> That seems silly.
>
> Of course, I recognize the dangers in passing on the
> right. But I think there are plenty of times when it's a
> reasonable thing to do.

Yeow! Folk Transportation! :-)

Of course, if there were parked cars to the right, and the
possibility of the car traffic stopping and passengers
bailing out on the left, that makes a rather scary gauntlet
with door zones on either side to ride through. But on a
wide boulevard with no parked cars and long stretches
between intersections, I can see it.

Actually, the Folk Transportation approach would probably
be to take to the sidewalk. And if a right turn at the
next intersection is desired, cut through the gas station
on the corner.

I guess the Good Cycling Ambassador thing to do would be to
get in line with cars, and suffer along with the drivers,
while breathing their fumes. And their car exhaust.

I'd just look for an uncluttered parallel street route to
bypass the traffic clot.

- Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Rick Onanian

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:07:11 GMT, 2WheelR <dontbother@null.dev>
wrote:
>and fat (THE GUY CALLED ME FAT! ouch. Can I help it if ice
>cream is like cyclist rocket fuel, and I've been on the
>launchpad all winter).

Oy! Tell me about it...it's been cake for me. I think my
aerobelly may have exceeded 'aero'. As happy as I usually am
with my weight, my aerobelly, and my eating habits, I'm
skipping supper tonight.

>Instead I pretty much got reason and discourse, some
>support and sympathy. You folks are a credit to the
>bike and yourselves. Thanks for renewing my somewhat
>shaken faith.

It was close. Recent posts like yours but containing less of
their own reason gathered many reason-free responses.

>Now I'm going to go for a ride (after I fuel up)

No fuel for me. Had too much for lunch. No time after
fooling with a tire that refused to seat properly for way
too long, anyway...gotta get some sleep.
--
Rick Onanian

Eric S. Sande

>Should I really be obligated to hit my brakes and never
>gain any ground on him, despite the fact that _my_ travel
>space is clear and unobstructed? He won't have forgotten
>about me, and he can probably see my every move. I'm in no
>danger at all from him, unless he's purposely malicious.

Not in my case, I'm running on four lane one ways in the
city.

Typically the curb lanes are dead zones, too many delivery
vans and commuter drop offs going on there. So I'm usually
found in the main left lane, going at traffic speed.

I've seen too many near accidents to put myself in a
maneuver duel with driveway cowboys, Fedex vans and "I'm on
the cell phone, honey."

It really helps that the average traffic speed is
comfortably around 20 mph, I can sustain that and still do
acceleration and braking to take care of the random
individual.

This morning I got trapped behind a Nissan who didn't know
where he was, the guy was straddling lanes, slowing down,
and clearly had no clue.

He totally screwed my trip down M Street, causing me to
miss lights that I normally would have sailed through on
the green.

But it was all OK, the delay allowed me to meet the new
guy who parks at my rack, he seems to be OK as he takes
the middle place on the S-rack and doesn't steal my
coveted end spot.

The new semi-evil scooter person has the other end spot,
haven't met him yet. He displaced the chick who now locks to
the signpost.

Spring is definitely the battle of the commuter parking
spaces, the closer to the coffee shop the better, with a
clear understanding that the messengers park at one rack and
the commuters at another.

This is largely due to the fact that the commuters bogart
the rack all day.

Nobody except the health club people park at the corner
rack, it's sun-exposed and if a car goes off the road it
would most likely be at the corner.

But they mostly park inside the health club.

As a year 'round rider I see a lot of interesting things in
the spring, the basic cycling dynamic ramps up with a lot of
new or seasonal riders on the road.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY
MIND_______________________ ------------------"Buddy Holly,
the Texas Elvis"------------------ __________306.350.357.38-
>>cwhitman@texastwr.utaustin.edu__________

Craig Brossman

2WheelR wrote:

> I didn't identify myself as a cyclist when I posted,
> partly because I didn't want to spend 'privilege' on this
> thread. Common courtesy isn't just for exchanges between
> cyclists. It hardly mattered the the jerk cyclist that I
> was myself a cyclist.
>
>
> Instead I pretty much got reason and discourse, some
> support and sympathy. You folks are a credit to the
> bike and yourselves. Thanks for renewing my somewhat
> shaken faith.
>
> Now I'm going to go for a ride (after I fuel up)
>
> see ya, and thanks, R

Ride hard and be careful. I can't imagine a "FAT" guy riding
a double
--
Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado (remove ".nospam" to reply)

Trent Piepho

In article <%qgjc.33$X51.26@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>,
2WheelR <dontbother@null.dev> wrote:
>I passed you on my way home from work today. with 1/4
>mile to the corner, I pulled into the next lane to pass
>you safely. When I got to the corner, I pulled back into
>the right line to make a right turn and stopped for
>oncoming traffic.
>
>You thought it would be cool to pass me again on the right
>as I was pulling out, and I almost crushed you to death. If
>you were a little

How much time went by between you passed this person and
when he re-passed you?

You say a 1/4 mile, that's about 45 seconds for a cyclist
moving at a good
clip. Did you really wait at the stop sign for that long?

>Half into the intersection, I avoided you while avoiding
>crossing traffic as well, and as thanks for saving your
>life, you called me

You say anything at all? It seems like something is missing
from this story.

Curtis L . Russ

On 28 Apr 2004 10:45:14 -0700, tap@venturi.cfr.washington.edu (Trent
Piepho) wrote:

>You say a 1/4 mile, that's about 45 seconds for a cyclist
>moving at a good
>clip. Did you really wait at the stop sign for that long?

Well, the cyclist is moving too. If the car is moving in the
neighborhood of 30 mph and the cyclist was moving more or
less with traffic, then the wait wouldn't be long at all.

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on
two wheels...

2wheelr

Trent Piepho wrote:
> In article <%qgjc.33$X51.26@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>,
> 2WheelR <dontbother@null.dev> wrote:
>
>>I passed you on my way home from work today. with 1/4 mile
>>to the corner, I pulled into the next lane to pass you
>>safely. When I got to the corner, I pulled back into the
>>right line to make a right turn and stopped for oncoming
>>traffic.
>>
>>You thought it would be cool to pass me again on the right
>>as I was pulling out, and I almost crushed you to death.
>>If you were a little
>
>
> How much time went by between you passed this person and
> when he re-passed you?
>
> You say a 1/4 mile, that's about 45 seconds for a cyclist
> moving at a good
> clip. Did you really wait at the stop sign for that long?
>
I'm guessing he was going 22-25 MPH, that's how fast I go on
that stretch, of course, I'm FAT . I was driving @ 35, you
do the math. Wait, I'll do the math

at those estimated speeds (35 mph,and 25 mph)It took me 25
secs to get to the intersection, it took cyclings goodwill
ambassador 36 seconds.

Crossing traffic was heavy, there were cars ahead of me, and
I had to wait a while for a break once at the sign.

now does it seem plausible?

>
>>Half into the intersection, I avoided you while avoiding
>>crossing traffic as well, and as thanks for saving your
>>life, you called me
>
>
> You say anything at all? It seems like something is
> missing from this story.

I made the international *WTF?* gesture, not the *FU*
gesture. I used a gesture since he was obviously doing a
time trial at rush-hour on public streets, and I know many
racers do not speak English as a first language. Once I
rolled down my window to engage Lance (Boil, not Armstrong)
,he started in on me. Had he heard me out, I would have told
him he made cyclists look bad to motorists, not that he was
a string of insults. I'm finished feeling aggrieved, FWIW.

2wheelr

Craig Brossman wrote:

> 2WheelR wrote:
>
>
>> I didn't identify myself as a cyclist when I posted,
>> partly because I didn't want to spend 'privilege' on this
>> thread. Common courtesy isn't just for exchanges between
>> cyclists. It hardly mattered the the jerk cyclist that I
>> was myself a cyclist.
>>
>>
>> Instead I pretty much got reason and discourse, some
>> support and sympathy. You folks are a credit to the
>> bike and yourselves. Thanks for renewing my somewhat
>> shaken faith.
>>
>> Now I'm going to go for a ride (after I fuel up)
>>
>> see ya, and thanks, R
>
>
> Ride hard and be careful. I can't imagine a "FAT" guy
> riding a double

Thanks. This may bring a smile to your face-

It gets better, I did one double while I was a pack a day
smoker, one in nike jogging shoes, and one in cut-off
jean shorts.

The one I did while smoking was very tough. and no, I didn't
smoke on the bike like the famous photo.

Ahhh, youth.

Trent Piepho

In article <u3Ujc.50$4Z5.19@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>,
2WheelR <dontbother@null.dev> wrote:
>Trent Piepho wrote:
>>
>> How much time went by between you passed this person and
>> when he re-passed you?
>>
>> You say a 1/4 mile, that's about 45 seconds for a cyclist
>> moving at a good
>> clip. Did you really wait at the stop sign for that
>> long?

I forgot it takes you time to get there too, so it's not
nearly 45 seconds.

>>
>I'm guessing he was going 22-25 MPH, that's how fast I go
>on that stretch, of course, I'm FAT . I was driving @ 35,
>you do the math. Wait, I'll do the math
>
>at those estimated speeds (35 mph,and 25 mph)It took me 25
>secs to get to the intersection, it took cyclings goodwill
>ambassador 36 seconds.

So it was 10 seconds after you stopped the he passed you?

I'm a little skeptical, as on a number of occasions I've had
idiots in cars pass me and then moments later swerve in
front of me and stop to make a right turn. Sometimes they
don't even pass all the way before they start to move right.

>>>Half into the intersection, I avoided you while avoiding
>>>crossing traffic as well, and as thanks for saving your
>>>life, you called me
>>
>>
>> You say anything at all? It seems like something is
>> missing from this story.
>
>I made the international *WTF?* gesture, not the *FU*
>gesture. I used a gesture since he was obviously doing a
>time trial at rush-hour on public streets, and I know many
>racers do not speak English as a first language. Once I
>rolled down my window to engage Lance (Boil, not
>Armstrong) ,he started in on me. Had he heard me out, I
>would have told him he made cyclists look bad to
>motorists, not that he was a string of insults. I'm
>finished feeling aggrieved, FWIW.

So you make a gesture at him first. You rolled down your
window to say something to him first. I don't supposed you
said anything after rolling your window down? In your
original post it sounded like this person you so dislike
accosted you with spittle and curses out of the blue at the
next light, after all you did was stop when they passed you
on the right. But now we see that the situation was
escalated not by him, but by you.