Extra spokes & Chainwhip?

200a

How many actually carry a chainwhip, freewheel tool, and
extra spokes on a long tour?

GearóId Ó Laoi/

I always carry extra spokes but I carry a hypercracker, a
tiny tool which will get off cassettes by lever against
the bike frame. I've had to use it maybe three times in
40+ tours.

Tim McNamara

"200a" <200aspam@charter.net> writes:

> How many actually carry a chainwhip, freewheel tool, and
> extra spokes on a long tour?

Ditto what Garry wrote- since I use a wheel with a Shimano
cassette, I carry a HyperCracker and a few spokes. I also
carry a FiberFix spoke which can be used without taking the
cassette off, in case a spoke breaks in a torrential
downpour or where it's really cold. However, with properly
built wheels I haven't had a spoke break in years.

Tm

"200a" <200aspam@charter.net> wrote in message
news:109vkr22kvd2b26@corp.supernews.com...
> How many actually carry a chainwhip, freewheel tool, and
> extra spokes on a long tour?
>

Do you have these tools now? If you do and are competent
with them, then you might consider it. If not, why lug
around something you can't work?

Also, consider the extra bulk and weight of the tools. To
me, they are just heavy security blankets. I figure if I
have a problem on the road, worst case scenario, I'll call a
tow truck!

If your spokes are unusual, then it would be common sense to
stick some it.

I start out with a very well maintained bike with quality
components.

J Walen

"200a" <200aspam@charter.net> wrote in message
news:109vkr22kvd2b26@corp.supernews.com...
> How many actually carry a chainwhip, freewheel tool, and
> extra spokes on a long tour?
>
>

Touring where?

I carry a few spokes - figure for the others, hitchike if
necessary to nearest bike shop.

'Course, I've largely toured in the U.S. midwest - would
change my strategy in Mexico....

J.W.

Mike Vermeulen

>How many actually carry a chainwhip, freewheel tool, and
>extra spokes on a long tour?

I carry extra spokes, but not freewheel tool or chainwhip.
I've had spokes break on tours, but always have been able to
ride to a shop and then have the spokes be replaced.

I've also had 4 rims crack on tour, and once had a hub go
out and once had a frame crack. On that count:
1. rim #1, Alaska Highway ~mile 500. Called nearest bike
shop, had them build a wheel and send it up.
2. rim #2, Kenora, Ontario not far out of town. Cycled to
bike shop.
3. rim #3, Corner Brook, Newfoundland. Cycled to bike shop.
4. rim #4, Outback Western Australia. Cycled ~180 miles
after cracks started appearing in the rim, to Broome, WA.
5. frame #1, Outback Western Australia, Duct Tape and cycled
~180 miles to Geraldton, WA. Flew back to USA to pick up
a replacement bicycle.
6. hub #1, North Island, NZ, walked for a while and caught a
ride with a few former Samoans in a fruit truck.

--mev, Mike Vermeulen

Jobst Brandt

anonymous writes:

>> How many actually carry a chainwhip, freewheel tool, and
>> extra spokes on a long tour?

http://www-
math.science.unitn.it/Bike/General/Packing_List.html

> Do you have these tools now? If you do and are competent
> with them, then you might consider it. If not, why lug
> around something you can't work?

If you are not mechanically self sufficient, you are not
ready to go on a "long tour" or for that matter a typical
weekend ride in the SF Bay area where many roads are far
from assistance and many interesting roads are not open to
motor vehicles, so there is no hitch hike option.

> Also, consider the extra bulk and weight of the tools. To
> me, they are just heavy security blankets. I figure if I
> have a problem on the road, worst case scenario, I'll call
> a tow truck!

Typically, there is no cell phone signal in our area west
of the coast range (most of the interesting bicycling, or
east of the east bay hills, an uninhabited areas behind
MT. Hamilton.

http://mthamilton.ucolick.org/hamcam/

I suspect you don't take long day rides or go touring or you
wouldn't be so smug about the issue.

http://www.bicyclinglife.com/Recrea...ierraSpring.htm

> If your spokes are unusual, then it would be common sense
> to stick some it.

All spokes are unusual when you are underway.

> I start out with a very well maintained bike with quality
> components.

Don't fool yourself. Bicycles have failures. Know how to
handle them.

http://tinyurl.com/adls

Jobst Brandt jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

Tm

<jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org> wrote in message
news:V9Ync.10682$Fo4.140374@typhoon.sonic.net...
> anonymous writes:
>
>
> I suspect you don't take long day rides or go touring or
> you wouldn't be so smug about the issue.
>

Wrong again.

I also don't take a pocket calculator or a nail clipper as
you recommend. I would strongly urge anyone to learn to do
math in their head and brave the odd hangnail on the road
until help could be found.

I also agree with you about cell phone coverage. I rarely
carry one myself because coverage is spotty. I walk to a
phone or get a ride.

You could choose to carry a spare for every part on your
bike along with the tool to do every job, or, you could
choose to carry none. Most of us draw the line somewhere in
between. The air of superiority you give to where you have
drawn the line is plain silly.

Back to chainwhips and etc. Several other posters have
expressed opinions and experiences similiar to mine. But I
would advise *you*, after expressing to me what you have, to
never leave home without a chainwhip, freewheel tool, an
assortment of unusual underway spokes, a nailclipper, and a
pocket calculator. You just never know!

Rick Warner

"TM" <lkjd@lkjk.com> wrote in message
>
> Back to chainwhips and etc. Several other posters have
> expressed opinions and experiences similiar to mine. But I
> would advise *you*, after expressing to me what you have,
> to never leave home without a chainwhip, freewheel tool,
> an assortment of unusual underway spokes, a nailclipper,
> and a pocket calculator. You just never know!

Apparently you have not read much of Jobst's posts here, or
his ride reports. If you did you would be aware that he is
quite capable of taking care of himself, in remote areas, if
he experiences most types of failures. Was not that many
years ago that his report of one of his trips in the Alps
talked about having to rebuild a hub on a bike (I think it
was his son's) along the side of the road; about all he
neglected to have along with him was some grease, but he
made do with some suntan lotion until they could get to a
town and get some grease.

I get grief when in the low lands around here for the size
of the tool bag on my bike, but I ride those same quiet
mountain roads that Jobst talks about, and carrying a few
tools so you do not have to hike 10 miles or more to where
you can get some help is a small price to pay. I think with
your attitude that you had better hope that someone like
Jobst or myself stumble upon you when you are miles from
nowhere and experience a failure; either that or get the SAG
wagon to shadow you everywhere.

- rick

Tm

"Rick Warner" <rickwarner@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> Apparently you have not read much of Jobst's posts here,
> or his ride reports.

Apparently you did not read his reply to my post.

If you did you would be aware that he is quite capable of
> taking care of himself,

Then why are you taking care of him now?

> of failures. Was not that many years ago that his report
> of one of his trips in the Alps talked about having to
> rebuild a hub on a bike (I think it was his son's) along
> the side of the road; about all he neglected to have along
> with him was some grease, but he made do with some suntan
> lotion until they could get to a town and get some grease.
>

I would have needed more than grease at town, but I would
have made it.

> I get grief when in the low lands around here for the
> size of the tool bag on my bike, but I ride those same
> quiet mountain roads that Jobst talks about, and carrying
> a few tools

What if someone chastised you for carrying too few tools?
How do you know you have enough? Where do you draw the line?
Do you simply have the right amount because Jobst won't
shout you down?

so you do not have to hike 10
> miles or more to where you can get some help is a small
> price to pay.

You forgot to add "for me". There are many others for whom
it is not a "small" price to pay offset an unlikely risk. I
am one of those.

> I think with your attitude

My attitude is fine. I never questioned Jobst's competency
to make bicycle repairs or chastised him for carrying too
many tools as you imply in your post. Quite the contrary, he
questioned my ability to ride precisely because my tool bag
contained the wrong amount of tools! Funny, that makes him
guilty of the very offences you are accussing me of
committing. I won't hold my breath waiting for your reply
correcting his attitude.

that you had better hope that someone like
> Jobst or myself stumble upon you when you are miles from
> nowhere and experience a failure;

If I had a breakdown I would be delighted to see anyone who
was helpful. Neither one of you have given me the impression
that you would qualify. I may be wrong.

either that or get the SAG wagon to shadow you
> everywhere.
>

No. That is not the only alternative. If you choose to
believe that you need to carry a tool kit containing more
tools than mine, fine. Please don't patronize me because I
do not agree with your selection. You speak of these lonely
roads, but what about desolate single track? I do not know a
single mountain biker that carries a chainwhip and etc., yet
you guys ride some desolate road and feel you are like Lewis
and Clark!

Rick Warner

"TM" <lkjd@lkjk.com> wrote in message news:<10a7u53fejhulaf@corp.supernews.com>...
> "Rick Warner" <rickwarner@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > Apparently you have not read much of Jobst's posts here,
> > or his ride reports.
>
> Apparently you did not read his reply to my post.
>

Apparently I did. You just have such a chip on your
shoulder, for some reason, that you seem to have lost a
degree of rationality. Jobst merely pointed out that the
option of waiting for a tow truck, which you had opined was
a valid option, is not an option in many places and that if
you choose to believe that is an option that perhaps you
should stick to riding in places where services are more
readily available.

> If you did you would be aware that he is quite capable of
> > taking care of himself,
>
> Then why are you taking care of him now?

I am not taking care of him, just pointing out that Jobst is
quite knowledgable and experienced. Your credentials are
unknown, his are quite public.

> > of failures. Was not that many years ago that his report
> > of one of his trips in the Alps talked about having to
> > rebuild a hub on a bike (I think it was his son's) along
> > the side of the road; about all he neglected to have
> > along with him was some grease, but he made do with some
> > suntan lotion until they could get to a town and get
> > some grease.
> >
>
> I would have needed more than grease at town, but I would
> have made it.

Perhaps. I would wager not very easily.

> > I get grief when in the low lands around here for the
> > size of the tool bag on my bike, but I ride those same
> > quiet mountain roads that Jobst talks about, and
> > carrying a few tools
>
> What if someone chastised you for carrying too few tools?
> How do you know you have enough? Where do you draw the
> line? Do you simply have the right amount because Jobst
> won't shout you down?

Hard to say what is enough, but you should have sufficient
tools, and knowledge, to be able to get yourself going again
for most types of failures short of a frame or hub falling
apart. Does not take many tools.

> so you do not have to hike 10
> > miles or more to where you can get some help is a small
> > price to pay.
>
> You forgot to add "for me". There are many others for whom
> it is not a "small" price to pay offset an unlikely risk.
> I am one of those.

Not all that unlikely when you ride 6,000-15,000 miles a
year. You ride that much, even on quality components, you
will have breakdowns.

> > I think with your attitude
>
> My attitude is fine. I never questioned Jobst's competency
> to make bicycle repairs or chastised him for carrying too
> many tools as you imply in your post. Quite the contrary,
> he questioned my ability to ride precisely because my tool
> bag contained the wrong amount of tools!

No. He questioned the wisdom of long rides in remote
areas without proper equipment. And tried to get the
message across, the one you keep ignoring, that tow
trucks are not everywhere so planning that as an escape
is not a wise strategy.

> If I had a breakdown I would be delighted to see anyone
> who was helpful. Neither one of you have given me the
> impression that you would qualify. I may be wrong.

Actually I am quite helpful on the road. I have given helped
many, given out CO2 cartridges, tubes, and patch kits to
strangers, 'fixed' a bent derailleur hanger to get a rider
back on the road - then gave them money for the phone once
they got back to civilization, and many more. I bet Jobst
has helped many folks in his years.

> either that or get the SAG wagon to shadow you
> > everywhere.
> >
>
> No. That is not the only alternative. If you choose to
> believe that you need to carry a tool kit containing more
> tools than mine, fine. Please don't patronize me because I
> do not agree with your selection. You speak of these
> lonely roads, but what about desolate single track? I do
> not know a single mountain biker that carries a chainwhip
> and etc., yet you guys ride some desolate road and feel
> you are like Lewis and Clark!

You have no idea what tools I carry, yet you seem to think
you have such knowledge. Jobst may carry a chainwhip, since
his bike has a freewheel. I have one bike left with a
freewheel, but I only ride that around town so carry just a
basic tube and patch kit on that setup. On my touring bike I
carry a very small hypercracker instead to remove/install
cassettes. And spokes and a spoke wrench. And stuff for
chain repair. And a couple of box wrenches, a couple of cone
wrenches, and an allen wrench set. The wrench for the
couplers on my bike. Small screwdriver. No one is making
this out as Lewis and Clark, just some old guys who do not
like to carry their bikes for 20 miles on their shoulders.

Most single-trackers I know of are much closer to services
than Jobst or I are on long rides. Doesn't take much to
coast back to the ski lift. And few mountain bikers will
need a chainwhip; do not know the last time I saw a mountain
bike with a freewheel being ridden other than around town.

- rick

Tm

"Rick Warner" <rickwarner@earthlink.net> wrote in message >

> Apparently I did. You just have such a chip on your
> shoulder, for some reason, that you seem to have lost a
> degree of rationality.

The tone of my reply was consistent with the tone with which
I was addressed. Again, you keep making my points!

My original post told the op that if he did not know how to
use the tools he was considering taking to leave them home.
I think that advice is better than what Job offered, namely,
stay home. In a nutshell, this is the difference.

In a worse case scenario outside help will be available in
most cases. You wish to consider only the small percent of
the time when it will not and argue that point. I think that
portrays long rides and touring as unnessarily more
dangerous than it is and, in effect, serves to frighten
people away. I desire the opposite, namely, as many people
enjoying the struggles of the road as much as I do.

Tom Keats

In article <bc2b2f85.0405141501.34be3c8a@posting.google.com>,
rickwarner@earthlink.net (Rick Warner) writes:

> Jobst may carry a chainwhip, since his bike has a
> freewheel.

Same here, but I just need the Hyperglide remover -- no
chainwhip. And a homemade 'pocket vice' to fit on the
freewheel remover, so I can get a wrench on it, or a
lever in it.

But with the freewheel, I've learned to pack a spare axle
along with the other repair stuff.

nd I don't even travel all that far afield. But a busted
axle can be so heartbreakingly crippling when you can't
replace it.

My nail clippers have been a godsend, especially for
roadside flat repairs.

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Rick Warner

On Fri, 14 May 2004 20:47:13 -0400, "TM" <lkjd@lkjk.com> wrote:

>
>In a worse case scenario outside help will be available in
>most cases. You wish to consider only the small percent of
>the time when it will not and argue that point. I think
>that portrays long rides and touring as unnessarily more
>dangerous than it is and, in effect, serves to frighten
>people away. I desire the opposite, namely, as many people
>enjoying the struggles of the road as much as I do.

Getting more people out is a laudable goal. I would argue
that it is far worse to lead someone into a false sense of
security that help is 'available in most cases' than to warn
them of the dangers of riding into unknown areas poorly
equipped. In many areas, help is not readily available and
the rider needs to have some basic repair skills and some
basic tools in order to minimize the risk of being stranded
far from nowhere without any options other than picking up
the bike and carrying it. Hefting a bike on one's shoulder
for 10 miles is much more demoralizing than to be told that
you should prepare yourself before heading out. Being told
to 'be prepared' should not be frightening to anyone.

BTW, in Jobst's case, I think that being in more remote
areas is not a small percentage of the time, it is more the
rule than the exception. I rarely see him riding near town;
if I see him on his bike it is either on some remote
mountain road, or on the way to some remote mountain road.
Read his recent ride reports of his rides in the Santa
Lucias (subject is something like Carmel Valley or
something, though he repeats in the thread on Big Sur) or
the Santa Cruz Mtns (Last Chance Road). If you want some
real fun, read the report of him, Tom Ritchey, and a bunch
of others riding to Gazos Creek (http://web.archive.org/web-
/20040515101135/http://www.geocities.com/rayhosler/jobst/ga-
zos.html) or the one about the ride to Waddell Creek (http:-
//web.archive.org/web/20040515101234/http://www.geocities.c-
om/rayhosler/jobst/waddell.htm).

- rick