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06-06.-2004, 01:04 AM
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#211 |
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Guest
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Re: 3000 miles in 10 months... so Why am I still fat?
Badger_South wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 10:47:18 GMT, mjduffy1 <usenet- > forum@cyclingforums.com> wrote: > >> Since the *rate of increase* in fat burning falls off >> dramatically as one enters the "aerobic" zone, riding >> slower will make fat-burning sense, *provided* this will >> extend the workout significantly. Of course, if one is >> time limited rather than endurance limited, it's best to >> ride like hell. > > Hah. > > I'll go you one better - > > It's best to ride like the demons of hell are chasing you! > > -Badger In a way they are you know. Shape up or die is a cruel fact of life for lots of people. -- Perre You have to be smarter than a robot to reply. |
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06-06.-2004, 02:30 AM
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#212 |
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Re: 3000 miles in 10 months... so Why am I still fat?
On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 15:56:56 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" <perDOTelmsater@telia.com> wrote:
>Badger_South wrote: >> On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 10:47:18 GMT, mjduffy1 <usenet- >> forum@cyclingforums.com> wrote: >> >>> Since the *rate of increase* in fat burning falls off >>> dramatically as one enters the "aerobic" zone, riding >>> slower will make fat-burning sense, *provided* this will >>> extend the workout significantly. Of course, if one is >>> time limited rather than endurance limited, it's best to >>> ride like hell. >> >> Hah. >> >> I'll go you one better - >> >> It's best to ride like the demons of hell are >> chasing you! >In a way they are you know. Shape up or die is a cruel fact >of life for lots of people. I try to hang just this side of the completely obsessive compulsive, wrt to improvement and mileage and time in the saddle. Heck, I'm just now ramping up, a little, (at least this is what I tell the wife.) -Bad |
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08-06.-2004, 11:37 PM
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#213 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 15
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Re: 3000 miles in 10 months... so Why am I still fat?
Doug,
Congrats. First don't be discouraged. Depending on our age and daily lifestyles, fat loss can take time. You completed the first part by getting your cardiovascular in shape. Next you need to get the diet under control. If you are really serious then take a look at the Zone diet. Dr Barry Sears is an biochemist that developed a balanced diet for athletes. It is based on your daily caloric load and ideal body mass. This is a difficult diet and takes time to master. Be patient and true to the diet and in 3 months you start to see the response. What ever diet you choose to follow, keep in mind to balance the diet. High protein diets are not approved for the physically active. If you want an easier read and a good introduction into The Zone plan, then pick up "Body for Life". A little cheesy of a program, but is a good start for beginners. Second, lower your max HR to about 65%. Fat burning is an aerobic process that requires Oxygen. Keep in mind fat burning does not start until after the excercise. Fat burning is the bodys way to replace glucose used. Your friend is correct in recommending exercising in AM, but do not eat for 1-2 hrs after the excersise. This will maximize the fat burning process. Good Luck |
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30-06.-2004, 07:40 PM
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#214 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1
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Re: 3000 miles in 10 months... so Why am I still fat?
Quote:
Doug, Understand a few things. 1. Your enemy: High Fructose Corn Syrup (start reading labels...like Gatorade for example) 2. Your friend: Much more protein, much less carbs, but still balanced, and much more fiber. 3. Beg, borrow or steal "Body Rx" by Dr. Scott Connelly...this is the guy that started MetRx. Read it. Basically, WITHOUT starving, and by eating smaller meals, doing some weight training, still biking, and watching AND recording what you eat, you can fix yourself. Period. My concern about a full blown Atkins is loss of lean muscle mass, and the fact that you will probably bonk if you don't get a reasonable level of carbs. One of the points of this book is the widespread use of High Fructose Corn Syrup, starting about 1980, also corresponds VERY closely with the increase in average body weight for Americans. Fructose does a VERY nasty but effective job of bypassing the metabolic screen and GREATLY encorraging fat storage. As does the eating 3 larger meals...the body keeps thinking that it's not going to be fed again and goes to fat storage every 3 jours or so. Smaller, better balanced meals 6 times a day. No starving hunger, just better results. Lastly, weight training as an adjunct to your cardio, has fat burning effects MUCH longer than cardio. Cardio fat burning stops the instant the exercise deos, yet weight training burns fat for hours...anaerobic benefit. In short, go buy that book. Keep at it but do it smarter. I'm back into my size 32-33 pants, and I thought they were lost forever. Enzo |
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01-07.-2004, 08:20 AM
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#215 |
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Guest
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Re: 3000 miles in 10 months... so Why am I still fat?
> My concern about a full blown Atkins is loss of lean
> muscle mass, and the fact that you will probably bonk if > you don't get a reasonable level of carbs. You really shouldn't discuss the Atkins Diet if you know nothing about it, and it is obvious that you do not know the principles of it. If you had read Dr. Atkins' book, you would find out that it is not a "low carb diet" but a "controlled carb diet" that, after the initial 2 weeks, adds 5 grams of low glycemic carbs a day per week to the diet and maxes out with as many carbs as you can eat and maintain your weight. There is no "loss of lean muscle mass" and anyone can get a "reasonable level of carbs" on the Atkins Diet. One of the points of this book is the widespread use of High > Fructose Corn Syrup, starting about 1980, also corresponds > VERY closely with the increase in average body weight for > Americans. Fructose does a VERY nasty but effective job of > bypassing the metabolic screen and GREATLY encorraging fat > storage. During the first 2 weeks of the Atkins Diet, a person is weaned from dependance on sugar. As does the eating 3 larger meals...the > body keeps thinking that it's not going to be fed again > and goes to fat storage every 3 jours or so. Smaller, > better balanced meals 6 times a day. No starving hunger, > just better results. Lastly, weight training as an adjunct > to your cardio, has fat burning effects MUCH longer than > cardio. Cardio fat burning stops the instant the exercise > deos, yet weight training burns fat for hours...anaerobic > benefit. > > In short, go buy that book. Keep at it but do it smarter. > I'm back into my size 32-33 pants, and I thought they were > lost forever. > > Enzo Not everyone has a job that enables them to eat 6 times a day. It may be ideal, but impractical. and what you meant by "cardio fat burning stops the instant the exercise deos" I have no idea. Riding a bike keeps the fat burning for a while after the ride is over. Yes, weight training is good and we should all do it. But don't bash Atkins when you don't have any idea about the principles of the diet. Pat |
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01-07.-2004, 11:16 PM
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#216 |
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Guest
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Re: 3000 miles in 10 months... so Why am I still fat?
Pat wrote:
> You really shouldn't discuss the Atkins Diet if you know > nothing about it, and it is obvious that you do not know > the principles of it. If you had read Dr. Atkins' book, > you would find out that it is not a "low carb diet" but a > "controlled carb diet" that, after the initial 2 weeks, > adds 5 grams of low glycemic carbs a day per week to the > diet and maxes out with as many carbs as you can eat and > maintain your weight. There is no "loss of lean muscle > mass" and anyone can get a "reasonable level of carbs" on > the Atkins Diet. Five grams of carbs per day is "reasonable"? I don't think so. My daily target is more like 600 grams. Weight loss benefits aside, any diet that greatly restricts carbs is going to be total disaster for an aerobic athlete. After about 90 minutes of exercise, your body starts to consume lean muscle as fuel. To counteract this, your recovery meal should contains carbs and protein. Carbs raise insulin levels, and insulin is an anabolic (muscle building) hormone. Protein is consumed to repair the muscle damage caused by the exercise. Finally, carbs taken after exercise replenishes stored muscle glycogen, which will prevent muscle fatigue and the infamous "bonk". Fad diets may come and go, but the basic nutritional needs for athletes remain the same. -- terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/ |
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02-07.-2004, 01:00 AM
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#217 |
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Re: 3000 miles in 10 months... so Why am I still fat?
"Terry Morse" <tmorse@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:tmorse-7E2DC5.06505401072004@news.covad.net... > Pat wrote: > > > You really shouldn't discuss the Atkins Diet if you know > > nothing about it, > > and it is obvious that you do not know the principles of > > it. If you had read Dr. Atkins' book, you would find out > > that it is not a "low carb diet" > > but a "controlled carb diet" that, after the initial 2 > > weeks, adds 5 grams > > of low glycemic carbs a day per week to the diet and > > maxes out with as many > > carbs as you can eat and maintain your weight. There is > > no "loss of lean muscle mass" and anyone can get a > > "reasonable level of carbs" on the Atkins > > Diet. > > Five grams of carbs per day is "reasonable"? I don't think > so. My daily target is more like 600 grams. Weight loss > benefits aside, any diet that greatly restricts carbs is > going to be total disaster for an aerobic athlete. After > about 90 minutes of exercise, your body starts to consume > lean muscle as fuel. To counteract this, your recovery > meal should contains carbs and protein. Carbs raise > insulin levels, and insulin is an anabolic (muscle > building) hormone. Protein is consumed to repair the > muscle damage caused by the exercise. Finally, carbs taken > after exercise replenishes stored muscle glycogen, which > will prevent muscle fatigue and the infamous "bonk". > > Fad diets may come and go, but the basic nutritional needs > for athletes remain the same. > -- > terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/ Remember that Atkins and other diets are not designed for athletes training... they are designed to loose weight. If you don't have weight to loose, you should eat differently. I have not read Atkins books but it sounds really similar to Montignac's method. In essence it's designed to prevent insulin over production by cutting out the foods that makes Insulin spike. There are a lot of carbs sources that won't make your insulin spike, those are fine. Even an athlete should avoid these nasty foods like potatoes. |
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02-07.-2004, 01:15 AM
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#218 |
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Guest
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Re: 3000 miles in 10 months... so Why am I still fat?
On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 06:50:54 -0700, Terry Morse <tmorse@spamcop.net> wrote:
>Pat wrote: > >> You really shouldn't discuss the Atkins Diet if you know >> nothing about it, and it is obvious that you do not know >> the principles of it. If you had read Dr. Atkins' book, >> you would find out that it is not a "low carb diet" but a >> "controlled carb diet" that, after the initial 2 weeks, >> adds 5 grams of low glycemic carbs a day per week to the >> diet and maxes out with as many carbs as you can eat and >> maintain your weight. There is no "loss of lean muscle >> mass" and anyone can get a "reasonable level of carbs" on >> the Atkins Diet. > >Five grams of carbs per day is "reasonable"? I don't think >so. My daily target is more like 600 grams. Weight loss >benefits aside, any diet that greatly restricts carbs is >going to be total disaster for an aerobic athlete. After >about 90 minutes of exercise, your body starts to consume >lean muscle as fuel. To counteract this, your recovery meal >should contains carbs and protein. Carbs raise insulin >levels, and insulin is an anabolic (muscle building) >hormone. Protein is consumed to repair the muscle damage >caused by the exercise. Finally, carbs taken after exercise >replenishes stored muscle glycogen, which will prevent >muscle fatigue and the infamous "bonk". > >Fad diets may come and go, but the basic nutritional needs >for athletes remain the same. Adds 5 grams, until the tolerated level is reached, i.e. you're not regaining the carb addiction thing, staying in benign dietary ketosis. The induction phase is 20 gms, so adding 5 grams would be 25. Some ppl get up to 30-50gm over a period of weeks. You add 5 gms per day as a way to slowly find your limit. So if you added 5 to the base 20 gms and were good, on day two you'd add another 5 to make 30. That's 5 gms of low glycemic index carbs, not sugar. In the window period, surrounding relatively intense exercise, one may consume glucose, usually in the form of a protein drink and sweet tarts, etc., and here the insulin aids in muscle building, and not increasing the size of the fat cells. FWIW -B |
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02-07.-2004, 01:15 AM
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#219 |
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Guest
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Re: 3000 miles in 10 months... so Why am I still fat?
Daniel Crispin wrote:
> Remember that Atkins and other diets are not designed for > athletes training... they are designed to loose weight. If > you don't have weight to loose, you should eat > differently. > > I have not read Atkins books but it sounds really similar > to Montignac's method. In essence it's designed to prevent > insulin over production by cutting out the foods that > makes Insulin spike. There are a lot of carbs sources that > won't make your insulin spike, those are fine. Even an > athlete should avoid these nasty foods like potatoes. Especially loose potatoes! Bill "Crispin Recipe?" S. |
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02-07.-2004, 02:00 AM
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#220 |
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Re: 3000 miles in 10 months... so Why am I still fat?
On 2004-07-01, Badger_South <Badger@South.net> wrote:
> In the window period, surrounding relatively intense > exercise, one may consume glucose, usually in the form of > a protein drink and sweet tarts, etc., and here the > insulin aids in muscle building, and not increasing the > size of the fat cells. > > FWIW FWIW, I lost over 150lbs. by becoming a vegetarian and biking a lot. I ate a lot of carbs while I was a vegetarian ("was" since I now eat fish and eggs) and I still lost weight. Go figure. Plus, even though I recently gained a few pounds back, I've largely maintained that weight for over 3 years. Preston |
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02-07.-2004, 06:01 AM
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#221 |
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Guest
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Re: 3000 miles in 10 months... so Why am I still fat?
> Pat wrote:
> > > You really shouldn't discuss the Atkins Diet if you know > > nothing about it, > > and it is obvious that you do not know the principles of > > it. If you had read Dr. Atkins' book, you would find out > > that it is not a "low carb diet" > > but a "controlled carb diet" that, after the initial 2 > > weeks, adds 5 grams > > of low glycemic carbs a day per week to the diet and > > maxes out with as many > > carbs as you can eat and maintain your weight. There is > > no "loss of lean muscle mass" and anyone can get a > > "reasonable level of carbs" on the Atkins > > Diet. > Five grams of carbs per day is "reasonable"? I don't > think so. I didn't write that, and that has nothing to do with the Atkins diet. The diet starts with 20 grams of carbs a day for the first 2 weeks only. Then, the dieter adds 5 grams daily during the next week. The week after that, he/she adds 5 more grams of carbs a day, etc. My > daily target is more like 600 grams. Weight loss benefits > aside, any diet that greatly restricts carbs is going to > be total disaster for an aerobic athlete. The Atkins diet, following the first 2 weeks, does not "greatly restrict carbs". I have been on the diet since last June and I have done 8 metric centuries and 2 mile centuries---The Hotter 'n' Hell Hundred and the Waco Wild West Century. I'm still alive (oh, and on the off days, I swim a mile a day). After about 90 minutes of exercise, your body > starts to consume lean muscle as fuel. To counteract this, > your recovery meal should contains carbs and protein. > Carbs raise insulin levels, and insulin is an anabolic > (muscle building) hormone. Protein is consumed to repair > the muscle damage caused by the exercise. Finally, carbs > taken after exercise replenishes stored muscle glycogen, > which will prevent muscle fatigue and the infamous "bonk". Never had a bonk on this diet. > > Fad diets may come and go, but the basic nutritional needs > for athletes remain the same. > -- > terry morse Palo Alto, CA Oh, it's no fad. It's a way of looking at carbs---eating as many as you want to but eating low glycemic carbs. Pat in TX |
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02-07.-2004, 06:47 AM
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#222 |
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Guest
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Re: 3000 miles in 10 months... so Why am I still fat?
Daniel Crispin wrote:
> There are a lot of carbs sources that won't make your > insulin spike, those are fine. Even an athlete should > avoid these nasty foods like potatoes. Nasty? Potatoes are an excellent choice as a pre-race meal. So is rice, pasta, bananas, white bagels, low-fat yogurt, tapioca, cream of wheat, etc. These are easily digested and will quickly replenish the liver glycogen lost during sleep. It's not the insulin spike that's bad, it's the insulin crash. Sugars cause a spike, followed by a crash. More complex carbs still cause an insulin spike, but sustain levels much longer than sugar. Basically, sugar bad, complex carbs good. Maltodextrin, a corn by-product, is probably the best carbohydrate source for endurance athletes. It has a high glycemic index (boosts glycogen levels quickly) but low dextrose equivalent (no insulin crash). -- terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/ |
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02-07.-2004, 07:01 AM
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#223 |
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Guest
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Re: 3000 miles in 10 months... so Why am I still fat?
Daniel Crispin wrote:
> Even an athlete should avoid these nasty foods like > potatoes. Terry Morse <tmorse@spamcop.net> wrote: > Nasty? Potatoes are an excellent choice as a pre- > race meal. it's true. potatoes good. i live in idaho. the license plates here read "famous potatoes" .. potatoes good. i drank the kool-aid, i ate the potato. people like daniel are sadly misguided. ... truth be told: i f'ing hate the potato in all its digusting forms and i paid the DMV $60 extra for special plates for no reason other than to get the word "potatoes" off mine. so, ok, i puked the kool aid. love pasta, tho! live on the stuff. i'm vegetarian & trapped in an office with two atkins diet adherents. aiiyy.. steak & potatoes of course. -- david reuteler reuteler@visi.com |
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02-07.-2004, 11:00 AM
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#224 |
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Re: 3000 miles in 10 months... so Why am I still fat?
Pat wrote:
> The [Atkins] diet starts with 20 grams of carbs a day for > the first 2 weeks only. Then, the dieter adds 5 grams > daily during the next week. The week after that, he/she > adds 5 more grams of carbs a day, etc. 20 grams, 25 grams, that's essentially zero. On that diet, I'd be on my back on the roadside with my feet in the air, with the other riders whizzing by comfortably. > The Atkins diet, following the first 2 weeks, does not > "greatly restrict carbs". I have been on the diet since > last June and I have done 8 metric centuries and 2 mile > centuries---The Hotter 'n' Hell Hundred and the Waco Wild > West Century. I'm still alive (oh, and on the off days, I > swim a mile a day). Then you're just not riding very hard. The studies have been done, the nutritional science is straightforward: if you take away carbs your endurance performance suffers. > Never had a bonk on this diet. More evidence for not riding very hard. > Oh, it's no fad. It's a way of looking at carbs---eating > as many as you want to but eating low glycemic carbs. "fad: A fashion that is taken up with great enthusiasm for a brief period of time; a craze." By what criteria does Atkins *not* constitute a fad? Oh, never mind. But hey, follow whatever weight loss program you want. But please don't say that restricting carbs won't affect an endurance athlete, because that's just nonsense. In general, I think we can agree that sugar is generally bad for anyone, and complex carbs are ideal. BTW, for endurance performance, when it comes to choosing what types of carbs to consume, glycemic index is less important that dextrose equivalence (DE). The lower the DE, the more easily the food can be digested, and the slower the insulin levels will drop. -- terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/ |
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02-07.-2004, 12:30 PM
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#225 |
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Guest
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Re: 3000 miles in 10 months... so Why am I still fat?
In article <tmorse-978F3C.18425901072004@news.covad.net>,
Terry Morse <tmorse@spamcop.net> writes: > In general, I think we can agree that sugar is generally > bad for anyone, and complex carbs are ideal. I think that sums it up rather nicely. > BTW, for endurance performance, when it comes to choosing > what types of carbs to consume, glycemic index is less > important that dextrose equivalence (DE). The lower the > DE, the more easily the food can be digested, and the > slower the insulin levels will drop. Interesting. I wonder what the DE of dates is? I can get along for quite a while of exertion on that venerable foodstuff. In re: fads and diets and things like that -- I think hearkening to old experience usually trumps experimenting with new theories. The only reason to re-invent the wheel is to write (& sell) a book about it. But I have no right to talk specifically about Atkins, 'cuz I weigh 148 lbs and I'm 5'11" and 50 y.o, and it would take me an awful lot of effort to gain weight. And I don't even do anything special, other than riding a heavy bike a lot, over hilly terrain, and a lot of other stuff that keeps me active and burning calories. Sometimes a blast of simple carbs (like half a dozen French Puff donuts) gives me a burst, like a nitro kit in a street rod. But I don't get any crash. Just an overwhelming desire for a cup of coffee to wash down the cloyingness of the sugar. I guess if other people saw what I choke down my neck it would put them into cardiac arrest. You should see what I do to a stack of pancakes (it involves bacon & eggs, and artificial maple syrup). Or, maybe you shouldn't. And I don't suffer from hypertension, high LDL or hypoglycemia. Just a little dandruff, sometimes. I don't understand the politics of overweightness, because I /cannot/ understand them. And that renders me incapable of realizing what other people have to go through. But I know they're going through something, and my heart and well- wishes are with them. But IMhO, I do think maybe people concentrate too much on diet and not enough on activity (let's not call it 'exercise', because that might connote too much regimen.) I'd happily donate some DNA if folks wanna undergo some recombinant experimentation (and risk ending up too much like me) :-) Actually, I think car seats make people put on fat weight. They also cause ass-spread. cheers, Tom -- -- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca |
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