3000 miles in 10 months... so Why am I still fat?

Roger Zoul

Mathias Koerber wrote:
:: On Wed, 19 May 2004 02:44:51 +0000, Badger_South wrote:
::
::
::: You may be surprised just how much you're eating, how
::: much you're eating at one meal, how much sugar and
::: starch you're eating, and may be overestimating the
::: mileage. If you're ranging from 95 to 190 miles during
::: the week that sounds inconsistent. It may be that you're
::: unknowingly sabotaging your efforts, by binging during
::: the low mileage weeks. Perhaps you can smooth it out
::: more, and get 150 miles per week but ride everyday.
::
:: One more comment (though I too am neither a dietician nor
:: in any way trained or experienced in any health-related
:: field).
::
:: It seems that the body starts burning stored energy
:: (fats) only after about 1hr (ymmv) orf excercise, so you
:: will need a longer ride to burn off the readily available
:: energy before you start using up the reserves. a 15-30
:: mile (short ride) daily will thus provide a generally
:: good training but do nothing (much) for loss of weight.

I disagree. It all comes down to whether you are controling
diet correctly. A short ride simply won't burn as many
calories as a long ride. Also, at the beginning of exercise
the energy system is primarily anaerobic, but the longer it
continues the greater the shift will be to aerobic (assuming
standarding bicycling, not hard sprints or climbing). it
doesn't matter where the energy comes from to fuel the
exercise because your body will just put it back from the
food you eat unless you create a deficit.

::
:: I lost abt 18kg in the first few month of starting
:: cycling again (after 16 years) and ascribe that to the
:: fact that while I did not change my eating habits much, I
:: went for long rides regularly (at least 2hrs usually 3 or
:: more) which seems to have made a difference. Now (a year
:: later) I mostly 2 15km rides a day, and do not lose any
:: more weight unless I do get around to do longer rides
:: (which is rare).

It made a difference because you burned more calories with
longer rides. The fact that you do shorter rides now but
don't lose any more weight is simply the result of you not
creating sufficient calorie deficit - you're lighter now, so
you either need to do more shorter rides (for greater total
time spent riding) or you need to eat less.

Roger Zoul

David Kerber wrote:
:: In article <2h1ho8F7dtk6U1@uni-berlin.de>,
:: rogerzoul2@hotmail.com says...
::
:: ...
::
::::: FWIW, you don't have to go anaerobic to deplete your
::::: muscle glycogen. Simply riding at a lower cadence with
::::: the same power output will accelerate the depletion
::::: rate. Glycogen usage is tied to muscle effort.
:::
::: Er, riding at a lower cadence with high power
::: output (like going uphill in a high gear or going
::: very fast on a flat in high gear) is the same thing
::: as going anaerobic. Anaerobic activity is what uses
::: sugar for fuel.
::
:: Which is another way of saying the EXACT same thing.

EXACT same thing as what? My point was that you generally do
have to go anerobic to deplete muscle glycogen.

Badger_south

On Wed, 19 May 2004 15:36:03 -0400, "Roger Zoul" <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>No, what I described is the CKD...you do it to refill my
>glycogen so that you can train harder the next week
>(assuming you're lifting). The TKD is where you take much
>smaller amounts of carbs (say 50 g) either pre or post (or
>both) workout. The former is usually much harder to do well
>and results in a lot of water-weight gain. The latter is
>much easier to do, and usually doesn't land you with 10 lbs
>of water weight, but it is not as much fun. On a CKD you
>want to limit fat intake as well.

Ah, right you are. I stand corrected. I use a version of the
TKD, but wasn't paying attention as you described the
Cyclical Ketogenic Diet. I think I would find that harder to
do, but I'm WAGing. ;-)

>:: If you can do this, very good. I on the other hand have
>:: to keep a much tighter reign on my carb intake. One
>:: slice of pizza and I know I risk 'falling off the
>:: wagon'. It's more a mental thing, and I know that's
>:: atypical. It does allow me to foist a smug and superior
>:: attitude upon all the weak and slovenly ppl around me
>:: though. (LOL, sarcasm meter pegging out to the max).
>
> Lots of people are you like. I can, however, do a CKD.
>:I've done enough
>of them to be able to get right back on track the following
>monday. The hard part for me is keeping the CKD clean -
>that is, limiting the fat intake while getting the carbs
>and protein.

Ah so. What would a typical weekend menu under your
CKD regime?

Interesting - thx for the details!

-B

Garyg

"Doug Cook" <dougconsult@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:htudndRKeeTvQjfd4p2dnA@aros.net...
> The story thus far....
>
> 12 years ago - single, 6'3", 180lbs., hair, and competing
> in citizens
class
> triathlons.
>
> Fast forward to last July... Married, two kids, mortgage,
> no hair, sedentary, 279lbs.
>
> Sick of that fat man in the mirror, I bought some XXL
> cycling clothes, dusted off and tuned up my old Trek, and
> started riding again. Now 10 months and close to 3000
> miles later... I still weigh 274! I mean... come on! 3000
> miles for 5 pounds?!
>
> My fitness level has increased tremendously. I use to
> struggle on 10 mile rides. Now I do at least 3-4 weekday
> rides of 15-30 miles each and one weekend ride for 50-70
> miles - all solo. My computer puts my average
speed
> for these rides between 16-18mph depending upon the
> particular ups&downs
of
> the ride. My HRM says my average rate is usually right
> about 75% of max (although that can vary, usually on the
> high side, when the ride has climbing). I feel lean and
> mean while I ride, but when I get home I
wonder
> who that fat guy in the mirror is!
>
> I don't diet per se, but I do eat sensibly. The days that
> I've tracked my caloric intake it's usually right between
> 2500 - 3000. One friend who is
a
> "wellness" expert suggests I'm not eating *ENOUGH*.
> Although she readily admits she doesn't specialize in
> athletes ("slovenly couch potato" is how she describes her
> typical client), she says that with my activity level my
> BMR is 5300... as she explained it that's the number of
> calories needed to just maintain my weight! Therefore she
> thinks my body thinks it's being starved and refuses to
> let go of the fat. She thinks by eating MORE the body will
> move away from this starvation reflex and start shedding
> pounds. She also suggested riding easy first thing in the
> morning BEFORE breakfast so the body has to switch to fat
> because the glycogen stores will be low (sound like a
> recipe for the BONK to me).
>
> Well, I tried to eat 4000 calories today and about died! I
> felt horrible, stuffed, tired, etc. I tried riding with
> just water (no sport drink), and found myself craving
> sugar after the ride.
>
> Any experts lurking out there that would like to comment?
> Are there any coaching services online that could help
> customize my training to help me lose weight? I can't
> afford to hire a coach.
>
> Any thoughts would be appreciated.
>

First, congratulations on not being a couch potato! Being
physically active is an important component in health, and
weight loss.

But, as others have noted, you need to focus on the food
(intake) side of the weight loss equation. It seems clear
that you are consuming too much (which is easy to do when
you ride a lot).

Your current Body Mass Index is 34.2, which puts you well
into the "Obese" category. To get your weight down, you need
to aim for a long-term, slow weight loss of around 1 lb per
week. To achieve this, you need a calorie deficit of 500
calories per day. I recommend that you focus on reducing
sweets, sodas, snacks and portion sizes. Even a relatively
small reduction, if maintained over time, will result in
significant weight loss.

<plug warning=on> The trick here is knowing when you are on
track, because your weight can fluctuate by 2-4 pounds per
day and counting calories is difficult and time-consuming.
I've recently released a weight management program called
"WeightWare" (www.WeightWare.com) that you may find useful.
By weighing yourself daily, and using the built-in
analytical tools in the program, you'll have a much better
idea of whether or not you are on track. You can download a
free, fully functional version from the website and try it
for 45 days to see if it meets your needs. <plug
warning=off>

Best of luck, and keep cycling!

~_-* ...G/ \G http://www.CycliStats.com - Software for
Cyclists http://www.WeightWare.com - Your Weight and
Health Diary

Dennis Ferguson

Doug Cook <dougconsult@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Dan Daniel" <ddandan.remove@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>> On Tue, 18 May 2004 22:16:03 -0600, "Doug Cook"
>> <dougconsult@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >Any thoughts would be appreciated.
>> >
>>
>> No answers, but a congratulations! You sound like you are
>> in good shape, getting better. A nice comeback.
>>
>> Do you still look the same? Muscle is denser than fat, so
>> people often don't lose weight as they shift from fat to
>> muscle, but the body takes on a different look.
>
>No, I haven't changed shape. I should have mentioned that I
>carry almost all the weight around my waist. Personally, I
>think I'm rather oddly shaped. Chest and butt look
>normal... just a big fat gut in front. I've thought about
>the muscle-for-fat theory, but my waistline hasn't changed,
>and my clothes don't fit any differently. That's why I'm
>pretty sure my body just doesn't touch it's fat stores.

Does diabetes run in your family? You are describing
the classic body shape of someone who may be
predisposed to that.

If this is a possibility you might want to seek professional
advice about your diet. The friend I had who matches your
description eventually discovered (if I recall correctly)
that to lose fat he had to not only tip the calorie balance
but also dramatically reduce the amount of simple sugars he
consumed, replacing it with calories from other sources. The
problem involved something about how borderline diabetics'
bodies process sugar, though I didn't pay enough attention
to be able to tell you more than that.

If this is your situation I think you'll want professional
advice about what to do about it. You can't just cut all
sugar out of your diet since some sugar consumption (e.g.
fruit) is necessary for your health, so if you are serious
about losing the weight you really need someone to help you
manage this.

Dennis Ferguson

Doug Cook

"GaryG" <garyg@shasta_SPAMBEGONE_software.com> wrote in message
news:10angj6d44ejr97@corp.supernews.com...
> "Doug Cook" <dougconsult@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:htudndRKeeTvQjfd4p2dnA@aros.net...
> > The story thus far....
> >
> > 12 years ago - single, 6'3", 180lbs., hair, and
> > competing in citizens
> class
> > triathlons.
> >
> > Fast forward to last July... Married, two kids,
> > mortgage, no hair, sedentary, 279lbs.
> >
> > Sick of that fat man in the mirror, I bought some XXL
> > cycling clothes, dusted off and tuned up my old Trek,
> > and started riding again. Now 10 months and close to
> > 3000 miles later... I still weigh 274! I mean...
come
> > on! 3000 miles for 5 pounds?!
> >
> > My fitness level has increased tremendously. I use to
> > struggle on 10
mile
> > rides. Now I do at least 3-4 weekday rides of 15-30
> > miles each and one weekend ride for 50-70 miles - all
> > solo. My computer puts my average
> speed
> > for these rides between 16-18mph depending upon the
> > particular ups&downs
> of
> > the ride. My HRM says my average rate is usually right
> > about 75% of max (although that can vary, usually on the
> > high side, when the ride has climbing). I feel lean and
> > mean while I ride, but when I get home I
> wonder
> > who that fat guy in the mirror is!
> >
> > I don't diet per se, but I do eat sensibly. The days
> > that I've tracked
my
> > caloric intake it's usually right between 2500 - 3000.
> > One friend who
is
> a
> > "wellness" expert suggests I'm not eating *ENOUGH*.
> > Although she
readily
> > admits she doesn't specialize in athletes ("slovenly
> > couch potato" is
how
> > she describes her typical client), she says that with my
> > activity level
my
> > BMR is 5300... as she explained it that's the number of
> > calories needed
to
> > just maintain my weight! Therefore she thinks my body
> > thinks it's being starved and refuses to let go of the
> > fat. She thinks by eating MORE the body will move away
> > from this starvation reflex and start shedding
pounds.
> > She also suggested riding easy first thing in the
> > morning BEFORE
breakfast
> > so the body has to switch to fat because the glycogen
> > stores will be low (sound like a recipe for the BONK
> > to me).
> >
> > Well, I tried to eat 4000 calories today and about died!
> > I felt
horrible,
> > stuffed, tired, etc. I tried riding with just water (no
> > sport drink),
and
> > found myself craving sugar after the ride.
> >
> > Any experts lurking out there that would like to
> > comment? Are there any coaching services online that
> > could help customize my training to help
me
> > lose weight? I can't afford to hire a coach.
> >
> > Any thoughts would be appreciated.
> >
>
> First, congratulations on not being a couch potato! Being
> physically
active
> is an important component in health, and weight loss.
>
> But, as others have noted, you need to focus on the food
> (intake) side of the weight loss equation. It seems clear
> that you are consuming too much (which is easy to do when
> you ride a lot).
>
> Your current Body Mass Index is 34.2, which puts you well
> into the "Obese" category. To get your weight down, you
> need to aim for a long-term, slow weight loss of around 1
> lb per week. To achieve this, you need a calorie deficit
> of 500 calories per day. I recommend that you focus on
> reducing sweets, sodas, snacks and portion sizes. Even a
> relatively small
reduction,
> if maintained over time, will result in significant
> weight loss.
>
> <plug warning=on> The trick here is knowing when you are
> on track, because your weight can fluctuate by 2-4 pounds
> per day and counting calories is difficult and time-
> consuming. I've recently released a weight management
> program called "WeightWare" (www.WeightWare.com) that you
> may find useful. By weighing yourself daily, and using the
> built-in analytical tools in the program, you'll have a
> much better idea of whether or not you are on track. You
can
> download a free, fully functional version from the website
> and try it for
45
> days to see if it meets your needs. <plug warning=off>
>
> Best of luck, and keep cycling!
>
> ~_-* ...G/ \G http://www.CycliStats.com - Software for
> Cyclists http://www.WeightWare.com - Your Weight and
> Health Diary
>

What a shameless plug!! Perhaps I could be one of your
case studies? Send me a non-expiring version, and then
use my story!

Doug Cook

"GaryG" <garyg@shasta_SPAMBEGONE_software.com> wrote in message
news:10angj6d44ejr97@corp.supernews.com...
> "Doug Cook" <dougconsult@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:htudndRKeeTvQjfd4p2dnA@aros.net...
> > The story thus far....
> >
> > 12 years ago - single, 6'3", 180lbs., hair, and
> > competing in citizens
> class
> > triathlons.
> >
> > Fast forward to last July... Married, two kids,
> > mortgage, no hair, sedentary, 279lbs.
> >
> > Sick of that fat man in the mirror, I bought some XXL
> > cycling clothes, dusted off and tuned up my old Trek,
> > and started riding again. Now 10 months and close to
> > 3000 miles later... I still weigh 274! I mean...
come
> > on! 3000 miles for 5 pounds?!
> >
> > My fitness level has increased tremendously. I use to
> > struggle on 10
mile
> > rides. Now I do at least 3-4 weekday rides of 15-30
> > miles each and one weekend ride for 50-70 miles - all
> > solo. My computer puts my average
> speed
> > for these rides between 16-18mph depending upon the
> > particular ups&downs
> of
> > the ride. My HRM says my average rate is usually right
> > about 75% of max (although that can vary, usually on the
> > high side, when the ride has climbing). I feel lean and
> > mean while I ride, but when I get home I
> wonder
> > who that fat guy in the mirror is!
> >
> > I don't diet per se, but I do eat sensibly. The days
> > that I've tracked
my
> > caloric intake it's usually right between 2500 - 3000.
> > One friend who
is
> a
> > "wellness" expert suggests I'm not eating *ENOUGH*.
> > Although she
readily
> > admits she doesn't specialize in athletes ("slovenly
> > couch potato" is
how
> > she describes her typical client), she says that with my
> > activity level
my
> > BMR is 5300... as she explained it that's the number of
> > calories needed
to
> > just maintain my weight! Therefore she thinks my body
> > thinks it's being starved and refuses to let go of the
> > fat. She thinks by eating MORE the body will move away
> > from this starvation reflex and start shedding
pounds.
> > She also suggested riding easy first thing in the
> > morning BEFORE
breakfast
> > so the body has to switch to fat because the glycogen
> > stores will be low (sound like a recipe for the BONK
> > to me).
> >
> > Well, I tried to eat 4000 calories today and about died!
> > I felt
horrible,
> > stuffed, tired, etc. I tried riding with just water (no
> > sport drink),
and
> > found myself craving sugar after the ride.
> >
> > Any experts lurking out there that would like to
> > comment? Are there any coaching services online that
> > could help customize my training to help
me
> > lose weight? I can't afford to hire a coach.
> >
> > Any thoughts would be appreciated.
> >
>
> First, congratulations on not being a couch potato! Being
> physically
active
> is an important component in health, and weight loss.
>
> But, as others have noted, you need to focus on the food
> (intake) side of the weight loss equation. It seems clear
> that you are consuming too much (which is easy to do when
> you ride a lot).
>
> Your current Body Mass Index is 34.2, which puts you well
> into the "Obese" category. To get your weight down, you
> need to aim for a long-term, slow weight loss of around 1
> lb per week. To achieve this, you need a calorie deficit
> of 500 calories per day. I recommend that you focus on
> reducing sweets, sodas, snacks and portion sizes. Even a
> relatively small
reduction,
> if maintained over time, will result in significant
> weight loss.
>
> <plug warning=on> The trick here is knowing when you are
> on track, because your weight can fluctuate by 2-4 pounds
> per day and counting calories is difficult and time-
> consuming. I've recently released a weight management
> program called "WeightWare" (www.WeightWare.com) that you
> may find useful. By weighing yourself daily, and using the
> built-in analytical tools in the program, you'll have a
> much better idea of whether or not you are on track. You
can
> download a free, fully functional version from the website
> and try it for
45
> days to see if it meets your needs. <plug warning=off>
>
> Best of luck, and keep cycling!
>
> ~_-* ...G/ \G http://www.CycliStats.com - Software for
> Cyclists http://www.WeightWare.com - Your Weight and
> Health Diary
>

What a shameless plug!! Perhaps I could be one of your
case studies? Send me a non-expiring version, and then
use my story!

Rick Onanian

On Wed, 19 May 2004 10:41:59 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
<rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Rick Onanian wrote:
>:: He's a healthy guy who has fun exercising.
>
>A fit guy who has fun exercising. Health != fit.

I think he's probably healthy too. He didn't say he feels
bad...just that he looks bad.

>:: I'm younger and smaller than you, and I can barely
>:: survive a 3000 calorie day. I'm a bit abnormal for that,
>:: I guess.
>
>Most people don't need any where near 3000 kcals per day.

Well, by "survive" I meant "not commit suicide". I'm
absolutely miserable below 3000 calories in a given day.

>::: She also suggested riding easy first thing in the
>::: morning BEFORE breakfast so the body has to switch to
>::: fat because the glycogen stores will be low (sound like
>::: a recipe for the BONK to me).
>::
>:: Try it, if you can, and figure out how far you can go
>:: before bonking. Do only that much, then gradually raise
>:: it up. This will certainly get your body running well
>:: for the rest of your day, too.
>
>More nonsense. I follow a low-carb diet...that means I'm
>always low on glycogen. Yet, I always ride in the morning
>with only some coffee in me. Unless he is pushing his
>limits and actually exercising anaerobically, he won't
>bonk out.

So you're saying he won't bonk. How does that make nonsense
of my suggestion to ride as much as possible?

If bonking can only happen when riding anaerobically, does
that mean that by riding slowly, anybody could ride
thousands of consecutive miles with only water, without
getting to a point of feeling energy-less?

>:: 1. CaloriesIn < CaloriesOut == NetLoss. This must happen
>:: in time, even given the 'starvation-mode' reaction of
>:: saving fat. Try really counting calories in and out
>:: for a week and see what you get; 10 months of
>:: insufficient calories should lose more than 4 pounds.
>
>Which means it was not 10 months of insufficient calories.

That wasn't obvious in what I said?

>:: 2. Health != weight. You're probably pretty damned
>:: healthy from all that riding, regardless of your
>:: weight.
>
>Health!=fit!= weight.
>
>He's fit (bicycle fit) for sure. I can't comment on his
>health since there's not my info here on that.

Agreed, but I suspect that all the riding has resulted
in health, especially since he didn't say he had any
health problems.

>:: those 40 pounds back. I am at my optimum weight, books
>:: and charts and doctors be damned.
>
>True, to an extent. If he has a belly then perhaps losing
>some of it might help him ride even better. Let's face it,
>lugging around fat is going to slow you down.

Only uphill. It's got practically no effect on flat, and
provides a great gravity assist downhill, as well as a more
aerodynamic shape.
--
Rick Onanian

eyagerusenet

Doug Cook <dougconsult@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The story thus far....

> 12 years ago - single, 6'3", 180lbs., hair, and competing
> in citizens class triathlons.

> Fast forward to last July... Married, two kids, mortgage,
> no hair, sedentary, 279lbs.

Some of your fat has been converted to muscle, so instant
weight loss at the start of the season isn't exactly going
to occur. At 279, climbing any hill is going to take quite a
bit of muscle. I think you should probably audit your food
intake and take away the extranous caloric intake.
Eliminating sodas and excessive milk consuption from your
diet and the bedtime snack is a good start. Slowly tapering
down and portion control is the key. If you eat alot of
food, your body is going to expect a lot of food or else you
are going to be miserable.

I can't say that cycling makes dieting any easier. After a
hard ride, there are strong cravings for food and it's easy
to take in more calories than you just burned. To make
matters worse, under some circumstances the body would
rather burn muscle than burn fat. Insulin spikes and such
feel nasty.

I suppose exercise and moderate dieting is the way to go. At
279 it is going to take a while. Whatever changes you make
should be changes that you can deal with for the long term.

--
---
Eric Yagerlener remove "usenet" from email address to reply

Garyg

"Doug Cook" <dougconsult@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:69mdnSO02rEUVDbdRVn-jA@aros.net...
> "GaryG" <garyg@shasta_SPAMBEGONE_software.com> wrote in
> message news:10angj6d44ejr97@corp.supernews.com...
> > "Doug Cook" <dougconsult@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:htudndRKeeTvQjfd4p2dnA@aros.net...
> > > The story thus far....
> > >
[snipped]
> > >
> >
> > First, congratulations on not being a couch potato!
> > Being physically
> active
> > is an important component in health, and weight loss.
> >
> > But, as others have noted, you need to focus on the food
> > (intake) side
of
> > the weight loss equation. It seems clear that you are
> > consuming too
much
> > (which is easy to do when you ride a lot).
> >
> > Your current Body Mass Index is 34.2, which puts you
> > well into the
"Obese"
> > category. To get your weight down, you need to aim for a
> > long-term,
slow
> > weight loss of around 1 lb per week. To achieve this,
> > you need a
calorie
> > deficit of 500 calories per day. I recommend that you
> > focus on reducing sweets, sodas, snacks and portion
> > sizes. Even a relatively small
> reduction,
> > if maintained over time, will result in significant
> > weight loss.
> >
> > <plug warning=on> The trick here is knowing when you are
> > on track, because your weight can fluctuate by 2-4
> > pounds per day and counting calories is difficult and
> > time-consuming. I've recently released a weight
> > management program
called
> > "WeightWare" (www.WeightWare.com) that you may find
> > useful. By weighing yourself daily, and using the built-
> > in analytical tools in the program, you'll have a much
> > better idea of whether or not you are on track. You
> can
> > download a free, fully functional version from the
> > website and try it
for
> 45
> > days to see if it meets your needs. <plug warning=off>
> >
> > Best of luck, and keep cycling!
> >
> > ~_-* ...G/ \G http://www.CycliStats.com - Software
> > for Cyclists http://www.WeightWare.com - Your Weight
> > and Health Diary
> >
>
> What a shameless plug!! Perhaps I could be one of your
> case studies? Send me a non-expiring version, and then use
> my story!
>

Well, as they say, "You can't Sell what you don't Tell". :-)

As for case studies, I've got my own...2 kids, mortgage,
hair (what hair?). And I'm at my lowest weight in 15
years (yeah!).

Sorry, but I can't afford to give it away and the price
(IMO) is pretty reasonable - currently, $25. But, if you
download the trial version and provide me with some useful
feedback (bug reports, suggestions, etc.), I'll send you a
code for $5 off. Fair enough?

~_-* ...G/ \G http://www.CycliStats.com - Software for
Cyclists http://www.WeightWare.com - Your Weight and
Health Diary

Badger_south

On 19 May 2004 18:03:28 -0400, eyagerusenet@chartermi.net wrote:

>Eliminating sodas and excessive milk consuption from your
>diet and the bedtime snack is a good start. Slowly tapering
>down and portion control is the key. If you eat alot of
>food, your body is going to expect a lot of food or else
>you are going to be miserable.

What ppl don't consider is that, here, it took him 12 years
to put this fat on. In addition he may be decreasing his
internal intraperitoneal fat, and you can't see that.

As a data point, when I lost the weight initially, my
waistline decreased to smaller than my weight when I was
180lbs, and I was measuring it at 200lbs. I could wear
'relaxed' size 31 jeans very comfortably, whereas at 180
when I wore those same jeans, they were so tight I put them
away, and wore 34s. Many feel that the internal, or
intraperitoneal fat is more, uh, 'unhealthy' than the spare
tire. Your whole body is 'recomposing', IOW.

>I can't say that cycling makes dieting any easier. After a
>hard ride, there are strong cravings for food and it's easy
>to take in more calories than you just burned. To make
>matters worse, under some circumstances the body would
>rather burn muscle than burn fat. Insulin spikes and such
>feel nasty.

I don't have a strong craving for food, but I'm riding
smaller distances at this point, and am on LC. I do mix up
some half strength Orange Juice and ice water, and then in
an hour have a fish portion and I'm good for about 6 hours.
Again, my body my science experiment. ;-p

>I suppose exercise and moderate dieting is the way to go.
>At 279 it is going to take a while. Whatever changes you
>make should be changes that you can deal with for the
>long term.

Sage advice. As you mention above, eliminating Sugared Soda
and Milk will do it for a -lot- of people. One really
doesn't realize how much sugar is in a can of pop! If you
just must have your soda, then dilute it to 1/8th of the
strength and put the rest away. Dilute glucose empties from
the stomach faster than full strength anyway so you'er
getting it to your body/brain sooner, IIRC.

-B

>---
>Eric Yagerlener remove "usenet" from email address to reply

Roger Zoul

BanditManDan wrote:
:: Drs wrote:
:: > You can lose weight by losing fat and you can lose
:: > weight by
:: losing > muscle. Reducing your calorific intake whilst
:: not maintaining anaerobic > exercise levels wil result
:: in excessive muscle loss. Since muscle is > more
:: metabolically expensive than fat, by maintaining your
:: muscle mass > you are actually able to burn more
:: calories than someone with less > muscle. Cycling is an
:: aerobic activity. It does little to preserve > muscle
:: mass because it primarily recruits Type I fibres
:: (endurance). It > also doesn't burn as many calories as
:: people think. You go for a ride, > work like crazy to
:: burn a few hundred calories and then put it straight
:: > back on again and more with a single Big Mac and
:: > fries. Cardio
:: has its > place in weight loss regimes but it's third
:: in importance after diet and > anaerobic exercise.
::
::
:: I won't disput what you are saying and in my case I lost
:: 90lbs doing both aerobic & anaerobic exercise. However my
:: primary exercise came mostly from cycling because that's
:: what I ejoyed the most, currently I cycle exclusively and
:: have not gained a pound back. I also know people who lost
:: weight simply dieting and walking as their only form of
:: exercise. I realize that a person can only lose so much
:: weight this way but it does work. As I see it, anything
:: you do to increase activity will burn calories. As long
:: as you consume fewer calories than you burn you will lose
:: weight. Once at the desired weight you simply balance the
:: intake/output.
::
:: Its just that simple. (although I know there is much more
:: scientific information on the subject I'm just
:: summarizing).

You're right too. However, DRS's point, if I may, is that
diet is most important in weight loss. The resistance
training really should be second after dieting because it 1)
builds muscle and 2) allows you to keep as much muscle mass
as possible while losing. Cardio is useful for other health
benefits, but if you do too much of it you can actually lose
muscle mass, in addtion to fat. The result of too much of
that is that one can become a "skinny fat person". A skinny
fat person will end up really screwed because the metabolism
will be lower, meaning that you'll have to eat less to
maintain weight, compared to the same size person with a
greater percentage of muscle mass. But it is certainly true
that if you do another cycling and control eating, your can
burn calories and lose weight effectively. I personally
would not call that optimal weight loss because too much of
it may come from muscle mass rather than fat.

Badger_south

On Wed, 19 May 2004 14:45:04 -0700, "GaryG"
<garyg@shasta_SPAMBEGONE_software.com> wrote:

>> What a shameless plug!! Perhaps I could be one of your
>> case studies? Send me a non-expiring version, and then
>> use my story!

I don't think it was a 'shameless' plug since GG prefaced
that portion of his post with a <plug> indicator.

>>
>
>Well, as they say, "You can't Sell what you don't
>Tell". :-)
>
>As for case studies, I've got my own...2 kids, mortgage,
>hair (what hair?). And I'm at my lowest weight in 15
>years (yeah!).
>
>Sorry, but I can't afford to give it away and the price
>(IMO) is pretty reasonable - currently, $25. But, if you
>download the trial version and provide me with some useful
>feedback (bug reports, suggestions, etc.), I'll send you a
>code for $5 off. Fair enough?

Very nice of you.

Trying to come across as sincere, but what does your
software do that I couldn't do in a simple XL spreadsheet.
My graphs look the same as yours. Are there additional
indicators, or predictors that are not shown on the page?

Some ppl can't do XL, so there's that.

Best,

-B

limerickman

I can understand why you're asking the question.
3000 miles in ten months is good going.

Let me ask - are your clothes more lose ?
The reason I ask is that what was fat - can easily turn to muscle.
Muscle is heavier than fat.
However if your clothes that we tighter before you started training, have become lose, then I think I may have an answer
for you.

I was in the same predicament as you are.
Cycling away gooddo and no change on the scales.
I noticed I was getting fitter but my weight did not budge.
The solution for me was to mix my training - mix my cycling with running/swimming/walking, but still training mostly by cycling.

This unlocked whatever was preventing me from losing weight.
I was also mindful of my diet (cut out bread completely).
It worked for me.