gyming to improve power

coolworx

Wow, we are certainly living up to our moniker, aren't we?

Roadie_scum

I'm not saying you don't understand it, just that you haven't demonstrated
(i) that you do understand it
(ii) that the material you linked to acts as a counterargument to what Ric has said
(iii) that it has any relevance whatsoever (we're talking about cyclists not boxers).

coolworx

I wasn't insulted... just taken back by your haughty snarkiness, is all.

Like I said, you're well named.

Roadie_scum

Look, I don't care what you think of me. All that I ask is that you engage in considered discussion and flesh out your arguments rather than just posting to information which *seems* irrelevant when you don't explain its import, and bring up arguments which are addressed earlier.

Now, are you going to engage in this topic or are you just going to give me the run around again?

coolworx

I apologize if I failed to make it clear.

Basically, boxing is alot like bicycling (or basketball/soccer), in the sense that it's mostly an aerobic load on the body. But boxing/B-Ball and soccer players have ALL improved with a supplementary weight training regiment because all of those sports (including cycling) also involve bursts in the anaerobic zone - and weight training helps in recovery (I'm talking about immediate recovery, not after exercise).

Via other threads, it's apparent Ric is certainly knowledgeable - just not infallible.

Ask Lance why he's a part-time gymrat.

Roadie_scum

All the sports you've mentioned require power, strength and agility in a way that endurance cycling does not. Weight training *may* help short term anaerobic recovery, but I can't see it would be better than training this attribute on the bike. (And I'd want to see some actual evidence that it does). Any gains made in anaerobic recovery (if they exist) will likely be outweighed by the detrimental effects of:
(i) an inability to recover from other training loads when weights are incorporated into a training program
(ii) loss of oxidative enzymes and capillary density
(iii) the interference effect which prevents full adaption to either strength or aerobic work when performed concurrently.

ric_stern/RST

whilst for e.g., boxing may be an aerobic sport, you obviously need to weight train in that get stronger/bigger. there's no discussion there. we're unlikely to (e.g.) Tyler box someone like Mike Tyson (assuming they were the same weight category). you're looking at two completely different sports here. if you're unable to see that then i have a pair of spectacles i can lend you ;-)





i have no idea how weight training would help recovery or what you mean by that? if i went training on the bike, came home and did some weights i'd be even more knackered than usual. if you mean that weights as adjunct at some other time helped in recovery, you'd be wrong, because recovery from intense supramaximal exercise (and anything less intense) is entirely dependent upon aerobic metabolism.

just because LA does weights doesn't mean anything. we don't know if he's good because of or inspite of those weights. if you apply such a discussion logically in an n=1 situation, you can come up with all sorts of really stupid ideas, e.g., you can only get good if you have cancer -- LA had it so it must work, or some pros take drugs so we should too (i'm not implying LA takes drugs i have no idea).

Sure, weights *do* increase peak power (e.g., 5-sec sprint) and may help with slightly longer, but short bursts of activity, however, they can *ONLY* help if you gain in muscle cross sectional area and thus gain weight. You'll then be heavier which will affect you going uphill, and you will have also decreased your muscle mitochondria and capillary density resulting in a decreased aerobic system. the increase in ower you get won't help in longer periods of activity, and will decrease the power that can be generated.

if you become stronger without an increase in muscle cross sectional area then there will be no transfer to a different modality. under neuromuscular adaptations the gains are specific to the joint angle and velocity at which they're trained.

allied to this, the gains that can be made for an endurance rider in weights for the above brief efforts can be matched and exceeded by on the bike training adaptations.

there's simply no evidence and no reason to think that weights would increase performance in trained/elite/pro endurance racing cyclists

ric

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BiochemGuy

Strength can be gained from weightlifting without there being an increase in the muscle cross sectional area. This is do to nervous system adaptions.

The issue about strength training and cycling isn't just about performance. Most cyclists have overdeveloped quads compared to hamstrings. This imbalance can lead to knee injury. By strengthing the hamstrings we can correct this imbalance.

ric_stern/RST

maybe you should bother to read the thread!



right...

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Roadie_scum

Maybe our expectations are unreasonable Ric.





By which I think you mean wrong...

ric_stern/RST

doesn't seem to much to read the thread, after all it's not that long!!

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lederhosen

Are you saying that one can't increase his/her strength without hypertrophy (larger muscle cross-section)?

ric_stern/RST

check 5 posts above your query!
ric

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Roadie_scum

Ric: just above your query -


"if you become stronger without an increase in muscle cross sectional area then there will be no transfer to a different modality. under neuromuscular adaptations the gains are specific to the joint angle and velocity at which they're trained."