Hit and Run

David Reuteler

Sarah Clatterbuck <webmaster@sfsportfishing.com> wrote:
> After straightening my tiara - er helmet - I sit up nice
> and tall on the saddle, raise my left arm so that the
> fleshy part is parallel to the road and the forearm is at
> a 90 degree angle with hand pointed directly up and
> cupped slightly. I then commence smiling and waving
> sequence for the motorist. Smile, rotate at wrist, smile,
> return left arm to handle bar and pedal like heck to get
> out of the way.

well, rick my first thought is that this won't work for
you .. but it might. the time they spend in shock could be
valuable if used towards getting away. stick around 'til
they recover, tho, and they'll use the resulting clarity
to downshift and get some torque when running their F-150
over your ass.

let me know how it works out.

my current will reads something like: "use all my money to
sue the bastard who ran me over." .. you may want to try
something like that first.
--
david reuteler reuteler@visi.com

Rick Onanian

On 03 Jun 2004 17:22:24 GMT, David Reuteler <reuteler@visi.com>
wrote:
>well, rick my first thought is that this won't work for you
>.. but it might. the time they spend in shock could be
>valuable if used towards getting away. stick around 'til
>they recover, tho, and they'll use the resulting clarity to
>downshift and get some torque when running their F-150 over
>your ass.

Maybe they should drive a GMC so they don't need to wait to
downshift... <G>

>let me know how it works out.

I might try it. Shock value can be fun.

>my current will reads something like: "use all my money to
>sue the bastard who ran me over." .. you may want to try
>something like that first.

Bicyclist-motorist relations are pretty tame where I am.
Maybe you should move here.
--
Rick Onanian

Ben Pfaff

Terry Morse <tmorse@spamcop.net> writes:

> For commuting, the Ellen Fletcher Bike Boulevard (Bryant
> St.) is a much better alternative.

I don't like it so much when I'm on my road bike. Between
Page Mill and Embarcadero it's full of bumps, broken up
concrete, badly patched holes, wide cracks, and even a few
areas where the top few inches of blacktop have torn off to
reveal the layer underneath (!). Dangerous, in my opinion.

Right now it's worse because there's intermittent
construction that sometimes blocks off traffic on Alma
entirely. The crews don't put up advisory detour signs,
which means that I sometimes run into the construction on
the next street up (Waverly) or face traffic on Alma (no fun
at all). Strangely enough, the crews don't appear to be
actually fixing the crappy pavement. Rather, they're making
it worse by putting in those damned steel trench plates.

I *am* somewhat amused that the construction crews put up
signs that say "Bike Lane Closed" even though Bryant Street
doesn't have a bike lane.

Even when I'm on my mountain bike, I'm always really careful
along Bryant Street, because idiot drivers love to cut me
off at intersections. At least once a week, one will blow
past a stop sign, without stopping, and pull into the
intersection in front of me. Typically I'll yell and ring my
bell--and then half the time the idiot will stop *directly
in my path*. The rest of the time the idiot will swear at me
and continue across. (Why isn't there ever a cop around when
I need one?)

Of course, this is made worse because of the two or three
intersections where there are hedges growing right up to the
edge of the sidewalk bordering the intersection. They kill
visibility and I have no idea why Palo Alto allows
homeowners to maintain such hazards.
--
blp@cs.stanford.edu - blp@gnu.org - pfaffben@debian.org -
blp@acm.org

Eric S. Sande

>Right now it's worse because there's intermittent
>construction that sometimes blocks off traffic on Alma
>entirely.

There is no whining in bicycling. Deal with it and quit your
damn whining.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY
MIND_______________________ ------------------"Buddy Holly,
the Texas Elvis"------------------ __________306.350.357.38-
>>cwhitman@texastwr.utaustin.edu__________

Terry Morse

Ben Pfaff wrote:

> Terry Morse <tmorse@spamcop.net> writes:
>
> > For commuting, the Ellen Fletcher Bike Boulevard (Bryant
> > St.) is a much better alternative.
>
> I don't like it so much when I'm on my road bike. Between
> Page Mill and Embarcadero it's full of bumps

The only really bad section is two blocks long, between N.
California and, um, Seale (I think). If you ride it
enough, you learn to avoid the bigger holes. Bumpy
pavement isn't dangerous, just annoying. It's still faster
than any of the other streets, with their requisite stop
signs every two blocks.

> Even when I'm on my mountain bike, I'm always really
> careful along Bryant Street, because idiot drivers love to
> cut me off at intersections. At least once a week, one
> will blow past a stop sign, without stopping, and pull
> into the intersection in front of me.

The same thing happens to me regularly. You just have to
watch out for them. Motorists don't seem to be tuned into
cyclists going 20 on a residential street. Screaming madely
and braking hard seems to get their attention.

>
> Of course, this is made worse because of the two or three
> intersections where there are hedges growing right up to
> the edge of the sidewalk bordering the intersection. They
> kill visibility and I have no idea why Palo Alto allows
> homeowners to maintain such hazards.

Complaining to the City works wonders. I've sent e-mails in
the past and have gotten speedy results. One homeowner who
used to park his RV right at an intersection, blocking view
of the stop sign and cross traffic, now parks around the
corner. Much better.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Tom Keats

In article <87pt8gkn1l.fsf@blp.benpfaff.org>,
Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> writes:
>
> Right now it's worse because there's intermittent
> construction that sometimes blocks off traffic on Alma
> entirely. The crews don't put up advisory detour signs,
> which means that I sometimes run into the construction
> on the next street up (Waverly) or face traffic on Alma
> (no fun at all). Strangely enough, the crews don't
> appear to be actually fixing the crappy pavement.
> Rather, they're making it worse by putting in those
> damned steel trench plates.

'Tis the season for street repair.

> I *am* somewhat amused that the construction crews put up
> signs that say "Bike Lane Closed" even though Bryant
> Street doesn't have a bike lane.

Yeah, that sounds pretty stupid. OTOH, I guess it
makes drivers more wary of cyclists if they think a
bike lane exists.

> Even when I'm on my mountain bike, I'm always really
> careful along Bryant Street, because idiot drivers love to
> cut me off at intersections. At least once a week, one
> will blow past a stop sign, without stopping, and pull
> into the intersection in front of me.

Look. It's a Law of Nature that whenever someone, whether
rider or driver, wants to go past ya, they'll do it at the
first bottleneck or intersection, or whenever someone's
coming the other way so they have to crowd you to get back
into your stream. They /won't/ give you a chance to duck a
little right to let them by. They /want/ to pretend you're
in their way, and they'll time their pass at the worst
possible moment, even though there's a refuge a few feet
ahead where you could duck right a little bit, and give 'em
some room. But they won't give you that chance, no matter
how hard you sprintingly hole-shoot it.

Know that it happens, and prepare for it.

> Typically I'll yell and ring my bell--and then half the
> time the idiot will stop *directly in my path*.

I've encountered drivers in front of me who will stop and
wait at a stop sign until they see me, behind them, put a
foot down. Self-styled traffic enforcers. I just give it to
them, and I don't bust a blood vessel over it. If they have
to resort to such tactics, they're the ones with the morbid
hypertension.

> The rest of the time the idiot will swear at me and
> continue across. (Why isn't there ever a cop around when I
> need one?)

If you're not clobbered, you don't need one. Espcecially if
you're about to do some clobbering and Irish-beating-out-of,
yourself. If you're not so inclined, just let it pass. After
all, you're really no worse off than before the incident.

> Of course, this is made worse because of the two or three
> intersections where there are hedges growing right up to
> the edge of the sidewalk bordering the intersection. They
> kill visibility and I have no idea why Palo Alto allows
> homeowners to maintain such hazards.

There's a good way of dealing with blind intersections,
but it doesn't involve nonchalantly sticking your ass in
harm's way.

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Terry Morse

Tom Keats wrote:

> I've encountered drivers in front of me who will stop and
> wait at a stop sign until they see me, behind them, put a
> foot down. Self-styled traffic enforcers. I just give it
> to them, and I don't bust a blood vessel over it.

If you want to have some fun, maintain a track stand until
you wear out their patience.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

clb

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 20:41:10 -0700, Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu>
wrote:

>Even when I'm on my mountain bike, I'm always really
>careful along Bryant Street, because idiot drivers love to
>cut me off at intersections. At least once a week, one will
>blow past a stop sign, without stopping, and pull into the
>intersection in front of me. Typically I'll yell and ring
>my bell--and then half the time the idiot will stop
>*directly in my path*. The rest of the time the idiot will
>swear at me and continue across. (Why isn't there ever a
>cop around when I need one?)

Hi Ben,

Well, as is unfortunately typical of this group, the only
two responses addressing your concern about safety on Bryant
took the approach of "blame the cyclist" -- amazing that a
cycling newsgroup could have such a bias!

Anyway, the reason I'm posting is that I wanted to support
you on this one. I actually stopped commuting on Bryant a
couple of years ago in favor of an alternate route because,
after several years of commuting on it, I decided it was too
unsafe and unfair to my family to continue. I had a "slight
scare" perhaps once every week or two and a real scary "near
miss" perhaps once every couple months. It was always
exactly the same. I'd be doing 15-20 on Bryant, which has no
stop signs most of the way, and some cross-traffic car would
jump out as I approached the intersection and nearly hit me.
Sometimes they wouldn't stop at all (all crossing streets
have stop signs), and sometimes they would stop but not
look, or not look until it was too late anyway. Anyway,
*most* of the time the driver would profusely apologize,
sometimes even getting out of their car to apologize, but on
occasion a driver would scream obscenities at me (after
nearly killing me). I even had one person blow through their
stop sign, nearly hit me, and then yell at me asking me if I
was going to stop (when of course I didn't have a stop
sign!) One time there was a man working in his yard when I
nearly got hit and he said to me, "You have no idea how
often I see that happen." -- proof that it is a real
problem. I tried wearing bright yellow and tuning my front
brake to squeal in a panic stop to help cars avoid me, but
in the end I decided it was too unsafe to do twice a day
every day. Now I take a route that is slightly slower but
way safer -- only one "near miss" in the last 12 months that
I can think of.

I actually don't think that (most) drivers are trying to be
aggressive toward cyclists. It's really just that they are
in a hurry to get home and they aren't programmed to look
for cyclists. While the lack of stop signs on Bryant is
great, it's not worth the risk for me.

So I expect that many members of this group will now
assert that I'm a bad bicyclist etc but I wanted to post
anyway because I think this is a real problem. I even e-
mailed the city about it a while back to both complain
about the pavement between Santa Rosa and N. California
and to let them know about the cross traffic danger,
particularly at Churchhill where there is a lot of cross
traffic at rush hour.

CLB

Badger_south

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 16:25:08 GMT, clb@nospam.edu wrote:

> I'd be doing 15-20 on Bryant, which has no stop signs most
> of the way, and some cross-traffic car would jump out as I
> approached the intersection and nearly hit me. Sometimes
> they wouldn't stop at all (all crossing streets have stop
> signs), and sometimes they would stop but not look, or not
> look until it was too late anyway.

I see the same problem here. It seems that since there isn't
one of those double- wide white 'stop' bars painted on the
road, motorists think they should zoom up and nose out into
the main road - some drivers use this to intimidate - and
they don't even bother to look for peds or bikers before
they 'slow & go'.

Gotta just ride ultra-defensively. Seems your decision
to change routes was prudent. Good luck and safe biking
to ya! ;-)

-Badger

Lioninoil_a T_n

> Well, as is unfortunately typical of this group, the only
> two responses addressing your concern about safety on
> Bryant took the approach of "blame the cyclist" -- amazing
> that a cycling newsgroup could have such a bias!

It just demonstrates the widespread acceptance of the
"victim mentality" imprinted upon cyclists in the USA
(United States of Automobiles) by the car-driving public:
"it's your own damn fault that you're reviled and injured,
riding those toys in the street!"

--
It's not about anger -- it's about peace. It's not about
power -- it's about grace. It's not about knowing your enemy
-- it's about knowing yourself.

Terry Morse

Someone wrote:

> Well, as is unfortunately typical of this group, the only
> two responses addressing your concern about safety on
> Bryant took the approach of "blame the cyclist" -- amazing
> that a cycling newsgroup could have such a bias!

Um, if you're referring to my post, I did not blame the
cyclist. I said you have to watch out for the motorists on
cross streets. Assume they are not going to stop, and if
they stop, assume they are going to not yield right of way.
In a perfect world with perfect drivers, one would not have
to do this, but there it is.

Near misses are just that. Bryant St. is not the site of
cyclist carnage that one might expect from the stories
told here.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Terry Morse

Someone else wrote:

> Someone wrote:
> > Well, as is unfortunately typical of this group, the
> > only two responses addressing your concern about safety
> > on Bryant took the approach of "blame the cyclist" --
> > amazing that a cycling newsgroup could have such a bias!
>
> It just demonstrates the widespread acceptance of the
> "victim mentality" imprinted upon cyclists in the USA
> (United States of Automobiles) by the car-driving public:
> "it's your own damn fault that you're reviled and injured,
> riding those toys in the street!"

Baloney. If a cyclist continues to get himself in near miss
situations with law breaking motorists on the same road,
there's something wrong with the cyclist. Some cars roll
through stop signs, others don't yield right of way, still
others have "cyclist blindless". Those are the facts. Learn
to anticipate and manage these risks, or get off the road.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Mike Latondress

Zoot Katz <zootkatz@operamail.com> wrote in
news:40c07a39.51689275@news.individual.net:

> Last week on Georgia Street I was presented the perfect
> opportunity to take out a brat in a SAAB. She right hooked
> me but I saw setting up, weighed the options and made a
> decision to not throw a hip check into her rear quarter
> panel and start screaming for my lawyer.
>
> She deserved it but I was on a different mission.

Zoot, your self control and restraint is Zen like. Didn't
you even kick the rear panel on passing?

Jeff Wong

On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, LioNiNoiL_a t_Ne t s c a pE_D 0 T_Ne T wrote:
> > > [People in this country blame cyclists.]
> >
> > Baloney. If a cyclist continues to get himself in near
> > miss situations with law breaking motorists on the same
> > road, there's something wrong with the cyclist.
>
> See what I mean?

I think some people blame cyclists for getting in trouble,
but these posts have not. I think they merely claim that
it's stupid to ride on roads or do things which put you at
risk (passing on the right for example).

Right or wrong doesn't matter, as long as you're not dead.
You have to some expectation that people occasionally run
stop signs and red lights. I used to be the kind of person
who would go through fresh green lights at speed until my
car was totalled. I did nothing wrong, but I got hit
anyways. I would be a fool to continue doing it even though
it's my right.

If certain roads are prone to accident, you should avoid
them, or at least be more careful when you're on them. On
the side, you could lobby your local police station to watch
out for more stop sign violations (by cars).

Jeff