Holy shatz! Cop stops bicycle!

Timothy J. Lee

In article <Pine.GSO.4.58.0406120010490.8911@alumni.engin.umich.edu>,
Daniel J. Stern <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> There's no law
> requiring
> registration of
> bicycles or carrying
> an operator's
> license -- or, for
> that matter, any
> form of
> identification at
> all -- while riding
> one. Should be, but
> isn't. So what if
> the cop stops
> someone who hasn't
> got ID? What,
> exactly, can the cop
> do?

Presumably the same thing the cop can do when arresting
someone for jaywalking or other illegal activity, and that
person doesn't have ID.

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Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is
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Chris B .

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 17:49:09 -0400, "Paul"
<UPS_SUCKS!@slower_traffic_get_to_the_right.com> wrote:

>
>"Daniel T." <postmaster@eathlink.net> wrote in message newsostmaster-
>D81410.17142012062004@news1.west.earthlink.net...
>
>> I'm not going to claim that what Mr. Stern says never
>> happens, but I expect that when something like that
>> happens but its a car rather than a bike that is
>> "ramming" through a busy intersection against the light,
>> a hell of a lot more damage occurs.
>
>What Stern is seeing (and what lots of other drivers see)
>is cyclists disregarding the laws that they are supposed to
>be obeying. The difference is that the car driver gets a
>ticket, fine and higher insurance when caught. The cyclist
>just gets away with
>it.

Not always, though. On my bicycle last year here in Toronto,
I received a ticket for failing to stop at a red (it wasn't
an especially blatant offence either, really - I turned
right on the red without stopping). It is legal to turn
right on the red here, provided that you stop first and then
yield to pedestrians and cross traffic.

Hopefully Mr. Stern (who appears to suffer from a very
severe case of
C.I.S.) will sleep a great deal better knowing that I paid
the ticket (about $190 CDN). Not being a poor,
victimized motorist, I didn't think to come whining to
usenet about it at the time, though.

Chris B .

On 12 Jun 2004 21:39:04 GMT, hunrobe@aol.com (Hunrobe) wrote:

[...]

>Second, in comparison to motor vehicle traffic there really
>aren't that many cyclists on the road. It's rather like,
>how many crashes has anyone heard of that were caused by
>UPS delivery trucks? Not that many I'd wager and it's *not*
>because all UPS drivers are careful conscientious drivers
>that always obey the traffic laws.

Precisely. Even when the police are on a blitz of ticketing
law-breaking cyclists (as they are here in Toronto right
now), only a very tiny percentage of Toronto motorists will
actually witness 'one of those pain in the ass cyclists
finally getting ticketed'.

Peter

"Tom Keats" <tomk2003@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uhufac.2f.ln@bud.garden.local...
> In article <Pine.GSO.4.58.0406121710510.29322@alumni.eng-
> in.umich.edu>, "Daniel J. Stern"
> <dastern@engin.umich.edu> writes:
> > On Sat, 12 Jun 2004, Tom Keats wrote:
> >
Much snipped:
>
> Incidentally, I've never seen a cyclist "ram" through a
> /busy/ intersection against the light. But then, I've
> never seen anyone jump through between boxcars of a fast
> moving train, either.
>

While I was stopped (on my bicycle) waiting for the left
turn light to appear young woman (20's) blew past me on the
left (the light facing us was red) and made the left turn
crossing EIGHT lanes of cross-traffic as she did so. She is
extremely lucky that she wasn't hit. In a previous life she
must have been a successful Kamikaze pilot.

If she had been hit - traffic on the road she turned onto is
80+ km/hr - what would have been said about the driver of
the vehicle? I see such stunts as these every day in my 25km
comute (50kms round trip) and can only wonder that there are
not more cyclist vehicle collisions.

I push a little harder and as I pass the miscreant shout out
"You just risked your life to save a few seconds -
Incredible!" and then pull away from them.

Tk

> AMEN to that. It would be espacially nice (for me anyways)
> if they would
do this to
> these idiot kids who have no clue of and/or disregard the
> rules of the
road.

Not familiar with the 4th amendment are we?

Nooobody

"Tom Keats" <tomk2003@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5nmfac.l9.ln@bud.garden.local...
> In article
<Pine.GSO.4.58.0406121148201.21014@alumni.engin.umich.edu>,
> "Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@engin.umich.edu> writes:
>
> > "Compared". Quite a bit, depending on how you define
> > "cause". When
a
> > bicyclist touches-off a multi-vehicle incident, the
> > total tab in
injuries
> > and damages can be quite large.
> >
> >> Can DUI bicyclests ram through the wall of the local
> >> McDonald's
killing
> >> and injuring happy meal eaters?
> >
> > They can ram through busy intersections against the
> > light, causing multiple collisions as drivers attempt to
> > avoid hitting them.
Different
> > venue, same effect.
>
> I've heard this point raised in the course of discussion
> before, but I've never seen nor heard of actual incidents
> where this has occurred. Has anyone? And if so, how often
> does it happen?

I've heard of worse.A few years ago, a pedestrian was killed
by a bicyclist who ran a red. The incident occurred on the
street that Daniel Stern, the original poster, observed the
bicyclist being stopped for running a red. It's not very
common, but it does happen.

Brent P

In article <40CACFCE.8030206@die.spammersearthlink.net>, The Lindbergh Baby wrote:

> Okay, has anyone ever seen a cop let a driver off after
> they ran a red light? Hmmmm??

Yes. I've seen cops not even pull people over who ran the
red right in front of them.

Brent P

In article <x8Byc.7010$Di3.952@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, Bob Newman wrote:
> Too many to read every reply, I hope this wasn't touched
> on. We here in Florida have had police crack downs in the
> past giving cyclists tickets for not stopping, as you say
> "cyclists are subject to the same traffic laws as anyone
> else". That is not quite true in this case, cyclists are
> required to do more! Simply stopping at a stop sign can
> still get you a ticket IF you fail to put one foot fully
> on the ground. Comments?

I've read of these assinine crackdowns many times. A
bicyclist does a track stand or simply rolls at 1 inch per
hour to prevent falling and the cops ticket for not doing a
complete stop. I've rarely heard of motorists being so
ticketed, but for bicyclists it seems to be a characteristic
of every 'crackdown'.

Brent P

In article <postmaster-D81410.17142012062004@news1.west.earthlink.net>, Daniel T. wrote:

> found himself flat on his back. Amazingly, the bicyclist
> wasn't hurt, of course the driver of the SUV wasn't hurt
> either, how could he be? Hell, I didn't even see any
> scratches on the side of his vehicle...

I've only hit a car once with my bicycle. I was about 13 at
the time. Bumped into the rear bumper of the neighbor's '79
fairmont. Why? I was looking at the GTO in garage. No
damage to anyting, but I was going at a walking pace to get
a better look at the GTO.

Tom Keats

In article <PwRyc.704101$Pk3.533634@pd7tw1no>,
"nooobody" <goaway@nospamthanks.ca> writes:

[actually, Daniel Stern wrote further up this thread:]
>> > They can ram through busy intersections against the
>> > light, causing multiple collisions as drivers attempt
>> > to avoid hitting them.
> Different
>> > venue, same effect.

[to which I replied:]
>> I've heard this point raised in the course of discussion
>> before, but I've never seen nor heard of actual incidents
>> where this has occurred. Has anyone? And if so, how often
>> does it happen?

[and now, in article <PwRyc.704101$Pk3.533634@pd7tw1no>,
"nooobody" <goaway@nospamthanks.ca> writes:]
> I've heard of worse.A few years ago, a pedestrian was
> killed by a bicyclist who ran a red. The incident occurred
> on the street that Daniel Stern, the original poster,
> observed the bicyclist being stopped for running a red.
> It's not very common, but it does happen.

That's certainly a tragic and unfortunate incident,
but it's still not the 'multiple collisions' in Mr.
Stern's description, which evokes in me images of tornado-
like destruction paths in the wakes of red light-
running cyclists.

I wonder how many pedestrians have been killed by drivers
who ran reds on that street since that incident.

I have no argument against people being fairly and justly
held accountable for their actions. But to me, Mr. Stern
appears to be saying that red light-running cyclists cause
real-life scenes like something from Smokie & the Bandit,
and I seriously /question/ (note I didn't say 'refute') that
assertion.

--
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Paul

"tk" <pm200054@optonline.net> wrote in message
newsTQyc.45$Z5.20647@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> > AMEN to that. It would be espacially nice (for me
> > anyways) if they would
> do this to
> > these idiot kids who have no clue of and/or disregard
> > the rules of the
> road.
>
> Not familiar with the 4th amendment are we?

And the 4th amendment would have what to do with ticketing
some idiot kid (or holding his parents responsible) when he
breaks the law?

--
Paul

Paul

"Timothy J. Lee" <remove22@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:caggk7$ma5$1@bolt.sonic.net...
> In article <Pine.GSO.4.58.0406120010490.8911@alumni.engin-
> .umich.edu>, Daniel J. Stern <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> > There's no law
> > requiring
> > registration of
> > bicycles or
> > carrying an
> > operator's license
> > -- or, for that
> > matter, any form
> > of identification
> > at all -- while
> > riding one. Should
> > be, but isn't. So
> > what if the cop
> > stops someone who
> > hasn't got ID?
> > What, exactly, can
> > the cop do?
>
> Presumably the same thing the cop can do when arresting
> someone for jaywalking or other illegal activity, and that
> person doesn't have ID.

They can lock them up until they identify themselves, like
the local PD here is doing with some idiot protesters who
felt they had the right to block a highway last week.

See: http://tinyurl.com/28737

--
Paul

brian-s-jones

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 06:41:13 GMT, tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com
(Brent P) wrote:

>I've read of these assinine crackdowns many times. A
>bicyclist does a track stand or simply rolls at 1 inch per
>hour to prevent falling and the cops ticket for not doing a
>complete stop. I've rarely heard of motorists being so
>ticketed, but for bicyclists it seems to be a
>characteristic of every 'crackdown'.

This has been applied to motorcyclists also and seems to be
an "attitude" issue with cops.

Those that are knowlegable will usually honor those that can
maintain balance at a stop.

Learned this from a CHP officer that conducted a motorcycle
safety course i took years ago. Motorcyclists are 'required'
to put one foot down for a STOP.

brian-s-jones

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 01:20:44 GMT, Arif Khokar <akhokar1234@wvu.edu>
wrote:

>Daniel T. wrote:
>
>> The fact is, bicyclists don't have to obey the same
>> traffic laws as cars,
>
>That's fiction, not fact.
>
>> otherwise they would be getting pulled over and fined.
>
>Which has nothing to do with it. Just because a law isn't
>enforced doesn't mean that the law doesn't exist. Cyclists
>are supposed to follow the rules of the road just like a
>driver does.

I have lived in California and currently in
Washington...both states require adherance to motor vehicle
laws by cyclists and both states actively enforce these
laws. Some specific laws relating to cycling vary from state-to-
state...ie. where you can and cannot ride.

People get stopped routinely for running traffic lights/stop
signs, failure to yield to pedestrians/etc. People have evne
been stopped and prosecuted for DUI while riding bicyles,
with the same penalties.

B