Say it ain't so Lance!!!

steve007

FACT: There is NO proof only HEARSAY.

FACT: David Walsh has not actually said he has proof to the effect that LA HAS taken these alledged drugs. David Walsh is a cowardly basta**. He has made this book and caused LA stress, but hasnt got the guts himself to actually say it.

Its obvious to me who THE MAN is.

Next month we will see the proof and all the doubting bastar*s can test LA for whatever the hell they want. And as usual they will find nothing and LA will add another victory to his list.

majorhavoc

steve007

as above!

philoakley

Cyclingnews.com has today reported that David Millar has confessed to taking EPO. This is another nail in the coffin for professional cycling which is very depressing. For those that defend Lance Arnmstrong, I would point out that Millar has never tested positive which seems to be your main defence for the man. Open your eyes and look at the facts. This sport is rotten to the core with very few exceptions. Riders are competing in the equivalent of an arms race where drug taking is a necessity just to survive. It is all too easy to criticise people like David Walsh and Paul Kimmage who just say what they see, but we have all been cheated.

keydates

However, Millar's team has been under investigation for doping. As far as I know, Armstrong's team hasn't.

philoakley

With due respect, Armstrong's team was under investigation in France 2-3 years ago, but i feel that you are missing the point. It doesn't matter whether a team is under investigation or not, the question is: Do you think that the perfromance of professional cyclists is influenced by performance enhancing drugs? If not, then you can sleep easy at night and enjoy the Tour. I just happen to think that the Festina/Cofidis/Kelme affairs are not a coincidence. Average speeds are increasing, riders/ex riders are dying of heart failure. I want to believe that cycling is clean. Please give me some reasons to believe it, the lack of investigations or positive tests is not good enough

steve007

Philoakley

are you suggesting that because millar hasnt tested positive and HAS admitted to taking EPO, that Armstrong must therefore have taken EPO?

Because if this is the case might we assume, based on your logic, that EVERYONE is taking EPO, in which case noone has the unfair advantage.

If noone has the unfair advantage then surely its not a problem?!

So far, noone has actually stated that LA HAS taken EPO - if DW was so sure, I am certain he would say it.

keydates

I believe that a lot of professional cyclists dope. However, due to the fact that Lance has tested negative on all of his tests, and since only a few people with questionable credibility have actually claimed that he has doped (based on what appears to be circumstantial evidence), I doubt he's doping. Of course, there is a small possibility.

gntlmn

Actually, David Millar is a relative newby. He's only 23, isn't he? It makes sense that a newer rider who has been doping a while would get caught. You wouldn't expect a veteran rider to have survived so much longer if he had been doping all along. It's kind of the law of averages. Lance will be 33 later this year. This means he's 9 years older. 9 years longer is a LOT longer time to have beaten all those drug tests. And the thing about Lance is that he is also subject to random tests all year long. I don't think Millar was (notice I'm already using past tense for Millar). And the same goes for the odds that someone will turn you in. The longer you go apparently clean by passing all tests and not being fingered with real evidence of violation, the more likely that you really are clean. And Lance seems to still appear to be clean, even considering the book by Walsh.

philoakley

David Millar is 27 and is in his 8th season as a professional cyclist. He has therefore passed a lot of drug tests both scheduled and random yet has apparently confessed to taking EPO. I think this highlights the ability to evade detection and therefore appear clean. The riders always seem to be one step ahead of the testers. The real mistake for some of the riders is not taking drugs but is getting caught.

I think that it is really sad that we are having this debate and genuinely hope that Lance Armstrong is a clean rider. However, what is increasingly clear is that large numbers of riders in the professional peloton take performance enhancing drugs and Lance beats them all.

I find Greg Lemond's views on the drug issue particularly enlightening. In a recent interview in Cycle Sport magazine, he commented that he would not be able to finish in the Top 20 in the Tour de France today even if he was in top condition. For one of the most naturally gifted Tour riders of all time to say this should have all of us questioning the integrity of today's Tour riders.

philoakley

I am not suggesting that Lance Armstrong must have taken EPO, I am highlighting the naivety of assuming that because a rider has not tested positive then he must be clean.

Is everyone taking EPO? Probably not. As for your comment that if everyone does there is no problem I take it that ethics and the pursuit of pushing one's body to its limits without drugs (in other words the very essence of sporting endeavour) doesn't mean anthing to you. I hope I am wrong in this.

steve007

Ethics were not on my agenda, only comedy, maybe you didnt note the funny side of everyone taking EPO - would kinda cancel itself out if everyone was on it huh?!

LA's name keeps cropping up in these discussions. Lets see real proof, until then its not fair to assume the worst - innocent until PROVEN guilty surely?

limerickman

This is frustrating.
Millar is not 23 - he is 27.
He has been a professional since 1998 - 6 years.
His team have been under investigation since the start of the year.

Millar denied all along that he ever took drugs.
Like the Festina squad - Millar and the rest of Cofidis denied any wrongdoing.

This sport is fucked.
No credibility left whatsoever -

Well done the French Police.