RR- Crashin in Hemet/ Done with Santa Crudz

Michael Jones

All,

Thought I would share my last mtb ride with you all. I
was down in Hemet, CA visiting relatives and thought I'd
sneek away for an early morning ride in the open areas
south of the town. I was riding on pavement, not knowing
where to go when I asked a jogger if she knew of any
places nearby. She told me of a bunch of trails
connecting together through the hills that would put a
nice loop together ~ 15 miles off road.

I rode through the trailhead and had a blast. There were
some technical parts through the rocks, lots of sandy
areas, and just plain fun trails without a soul. The sun
was shining and the temp was 78 degrees at 8:30 in the
morning. I rode for about an hour and a half, taking my
time and enjoying the experience. I had the big three
against me- riding alone, riding trails I had never been
on, and nobody knew where I had gone. With those factors
in mind I was cautious on some of the areas I knew I
could ride down, but opted to get off and walk certain
pieces. Saw alot of big lizards, and the biggest coyote
I had ever seen in the wilds. Looking back I wonder if
it was an omen of things to come...

I figured that I should get back and was riding a
fireroad out at a speed of ~10-15 mph, when I noticed
some grass groing across the trail. It was concealing a
3' wide by 3' deep crevice. Going too fast to stop in
time, I tried to huck over it but was going too slow to
clear it. I nailed the far side square with my front
wheel. The classic endo ensued and I landed square on my
knee, ( my bad one of course) and hand. After the reboot
and self check I could feel that my knee had taken the
brunt of the fall. I picked the bike up and walked it
back to a paved road I had seen about 100 yards back. I
washed the sand and dirt out of knee as well as I could
with my Camelback. Got on my bike and noticed that the
geometry had changed significantly. Further inspection
revealed that I had put a nice crimp in the downtube and
a buckle in the toptube of my Superlight. SHIT!!! I
lowered the seat as much as I could and kinda coasted
down the pavement, riding the back brake. 1/4 of a mile
down the pavement led me to a nice chainlink fence
capped with razor wire. I walked the bike around the
perimeter and found a place where I could throw the bike
over and use my jacket to get over the razor wire. I
found out later that the fence had been installed to
keep kids from going up there and partying. I coasted
downhill some more and got to the main rode and called
my wife to pick me up as the bike was unrideable.

This happened on May 1st. That night the knee swelled up
even though I kept it iced. The drive back home to
Fremont, (~420 miles) the next day was a joy.

I took the bike to the shop to see about getting a
warranty replacement. They all really like the new look
of the frame. I left it there on the 5th, two weeks
later no word on warranty/crash replacement. The bike
shop manager said that Santa Cruz is sometimes more
responsive if people call directly. I called and
explained what happened. I also told them that this
would be the third frame from them, (the first was a
crack in the seat tube by the bottom bracket of my
Heckler), and that I was not really happy with the
Superlight as I had been with the Heckler as the
Superlight felt too flexy. When my Heckler cracked, they
had stopped making them and forced me on to the SL. I
explained all this to them and they have just given me
the runaround....

Another piece of this is that all my components are
older 8 speed, I don't know if I can trust my fork,
(Marzocchi Z1 oil/coil best one I have ever owned btw),
after the crash. So the only thing left is wheelset. My
friend who I tried to get into mountain biking bought an
Aeon Isis about 3 years ago, XTR groupo, Marzocchi fork,
etc... He road it about 6 time and decided mtbing was
not for him. I am picking it up this weekend to check it
out... Anybody have experience with this frame? I know
Ellsworth bought them out and that there customer
service is lacking...

Anyway, thanks in advance for the time and info...

Mike (Looking forward to getting on the mountain bike
again) Jones

Ride-A-Lot

Michael Jones wrote: <snip all the RR stuff>
> I took the bike to the shop to see about getting a
> warranty replacement. They all really like the new
> look of the frame. I left it there on the 5th, two
> weeks later no word on warranty/crash replacement. The
> bike shop manager said that Santa Cruz is sometimes
> more responsive if people call directly. I called and
> explained what happened. I also told them that this
> would be the third frame from them, (the first was a
> crack in the seat tube by the bottom bracket of my
> Heckler), and that I was not really happy with the
> Superlight as I had been with the Heckler as the
> Superlight felt too flexy. When my Heckler cracked,
> they had stopped making them and forced me on to the
> SL. I explained all this to them and they have just
> given me the runaround....
>
> Another piece of this is that all my components are
> older 8 speed, I don't know if I can trust my fork,
> (Marzocchi Z1 oil/coil best one I have ever owned
> btw), after the crash. So the only thing left is
> wheelset. My friend who I tried to get into mountain
> biking bought an Aeon Isis about 3 years ago, XTR
> groupo, Marzocchi fork, etc... He road it about 6 time
> and decided mtbing was not for him. I am picking it up
> this weekend to check it out... Anybody have
> experience with this frame? I know Ellsworth bought
> them out and that there customer service is lacking...
>
> Anyway, thanks in advance for the time and info...
>
> Mike (Looking forward to getting on the mountain bike
> again) Jones

You went from a heckler to a superlight and thought you
would ride them the same way? Is Santa Crud doing anything
for you? You kind of left us hanging on that one.

Is the Aeon Isis the same as an ellsworth Isis? If so the
ride is going to be much different than you are used to
although it is a bit beafier than a superlight.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

Bomba

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 15:41:54 +0000, Michael Jones wrote:

> I took the bike to the shop to see about getting a
> warranty replacement.

Warranty? Which part of the warranty is it that covers
stacking your bike in to a ditch?

--
a.m-b FAQ: http://www.j-harris.net/bike/ambfaq.htm

b.bmx FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/bmx_faq.htm

Jimbo(san)

<Originally posted by Michael Jones
All,

... It was concealing a
3' wide by 3' deep crevice. Going too fast to stop in
time, I tried to huck over it but was going too slow to
clear it. I nailed the far side square with my front
wheel. The classic endo ensued and I landed square on my
knee, <snip>

A classic case of JRA!!!

< I took the bike to the shop to see about getting a
warranty replacement. They all really like the new look
of the frame. I left it there on the 5th, two weeks
later no word on warranty/crash replacement. The bike
shop manager said that Santa Cruz is sometimes more
responsive if people call directly. I called and
explained what happened. I also told them that this
would be the third frame from them, (the first was a
crack in the seat tube by the bottom bracket of my
Heckler), and that I was not really happy with the
Superlight as I had been with the Heckler as the
Superlight felt too flexy. When my Heckler cracked, they
had stopped making them and forced me on to the SL. I
explained all this to them and they have just given me
the runaround....>

So they warranteed the first bike... Their defect? They stood by their warantee and gave you a new frame... albeit not the one you had...
You crashed and bent up the second bike... What's the runaround they are giving you? Did the frame go back to them?
Is it some manufacturers defect that caused ther dents in your Superlite frame... did they offer you a crash replacement?
I couldn't see why they wouldn't offer to sell you a new front triangle. Last time I talked to Santa Cruz... Willy to be exact he was pretty cool...
He wasn't offering something for nothing but he did offer me a decent deal on a replacement rear triangle and he really didn't ask too many questions... Turns out after I spoke with him for a while he contacted by LBS and everything got fixed without having to warantee anything.



< Another piece of this is that all my components are
older 8 speed, I don't know if I can trust my fork,
(Marzocchi Z1 oil/coil best one I have ever owned btw),
after the crash. >

Trust it??? Inspect it... If your going to trash it... send it to me...
I'll trust it... after I inspect it for any damage ;-P

Just curious... If you already not happy with SC customer service... and you hear Ellsworth's customer service is crappy...
and you have had issues before... maybe that isn't the best move...
just my 2 cents



Jimbo(san)

Michael Jones

"Ride-A-Lot" <Sir.Ride-a-LotNOSPAM@careercenter.com> wrote in message
news:VYSdnWvtGd747E3dRVn-vA@speakeasy.net...
> getting on the mountain bike again) Jones
>
> You went from a heckler to a superlight and thought you
> would ride them
the
> same way? Is Santa Crud doing anything for you? You kind
> of left us hanging on that one.
>
> Is the Aeon Isis the same as an ellsworth Isis? If so the
> ride is going
to
> be much different than you are used to although it is a
> bit beafier than a superlight.
>
>
> --
> o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o www.schnauzers.ws
>
>

I didn't want to get the SL. Santa Cruz had stopped making
the Heckler and that was the only option for me. I talked to
the warranty guy at SC and he said that he would check into
a Blur as I don't have disk brake wheelset, (Heckler is disk
only). He came back and said that, "If we do it for you, we
would have to do it for everyone". Piss on that attitude.
This WOULD have been my third frame from them. They only
want to give,( for $500) me another SL. I think that I may
get it and you will see an SL frame for sale on ebay from a
guy in Fremont, CA...

Yes the Isis is the same but this one was built right
before it was bought by Ellsworth. He spent about $3400
on it and rode it six times... Selling to me for $1300.

Basically it looks like the same single pivot design. I
was wondering if anyone has had any experience with
them, etc....

Mike (Jonesin for the mtb) Jones

Michael Jones

"bomba" <myarse247@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsan.2004.06.16.16.23.48.679786@hotmail.com...
> On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 15:41:54 +0000, Michael Jones wrote:
>
> > I took the bike to the shop to see about getting a
> > warranty
replacement.
>
> Warranty? Which part of the warranty is it that covers
> stacking your bike in to a ditch?
>
> --
> a.m-b FAQ: http://www.j-harris.net/bike/ambfaq.htm
>
> a.bmx FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/bmx_faq.htm

They have a crash replacement warranty where they give/sell
you a new frame at 1/2 retail price. This way they keep you
as a client/rider. I offered to pay the difference of the SL
to Blur price. I made a point of telling the guy that, as
well as not being happy having been forced down to the SL in
the past... Funny thing though, they were willing to
exchange the SL for the Bullet...

Mike-

Pas

Michael Jones wrote:
>> Yes the Isis is the same but this one was built right
>> before it
> was bought by Ellsworth. He spent about $3400 on it and
> rode it six times... Selling to me for $1300.
>
> Basically it looks like the same single pivot design. I
> was wondering if anyone has had any experience with
> them, etc....
>

for that kind of price and use, who cares? ;-)

penny

Michael Jones

"pas" <pennysinvalid@cetinvalid.com> wrote in message
news:10d0tjbg2lh4ff7@news.supernews.com...
> Michael Jones wrote:
> >> Yes the Isis is the same but this one was built
> >> right before it
> > was bought by Ellsworth. He spent about $3400 on it and
> > rode it six times... Selling to me for $1300.
> >
> > Basically it looks like the same single pivot design. I
> > was wondering if anyone has had any experience with
> > them, etc....
> >
>
>
> for that kind of price and use, who cares? ;-)
>
> penny
>
>

Well it has been haning in his garage for three years ;-0

I just was hoping someone outside of mtbr, where everything
is great, had some experience with the frame.

Mike-

Kantspel

> I figured that I should get back and was riding a
> fireroad out at a speed of ~10-15 mph, when I noticed
> some grass groing across the trail. It was concealing
> a 3' wide by 3' deep crevice. Going too fast to stop
> in time, I tried to huck over it but was going too
> slow to clear it. I nailed the far side square with my
> front wheel. The classic endo ensued and I landed
> square on my knee, ( my bad one of course) and hand.
> After the reboot and self check I could feel that my
> knee had taken the brunt of the fall. I picked the
> bike up and walked it back to a paved road I had seen
> about 100 yards back. I washed the sand and dirt out
> of knee as well as I could with my Camelback. Got on
> my bike and noticed that the geometry had changed
> significantly. Further inspection revealed that I had
> put a nice crimp in the downtube and a buckle in the
> toptube of my Superlight. SHIT!!!
>
> This happened on May 1st. That night the knee swelled
> up even though I kept it iced. The drive back home to
> Fremont, (~420 miles) the next day was a joy.
>
> I took the bike to the shop to see about getting a
> warranty replacement. They all really like the new
> look of the frame. I left it there on the 5th, two
> weeks later no word on warranty/crash replacement. The
> bike shop manager said that Santa Cruz is sometimes
> more responsive if people call directly. I called and
> explained what happened. I also told them that this
> would be the third frame from them, (the first was a
> crack in the seat tube by the bottom bracket of my
> Heckler), and that I was not really happy with the
> Superlight as I had been with the Heckler as the
> Superlight felt too flexy. When my Heckler cracked,
> they had stopped making them and forced me on to the
> SL. I explained all this to them and they have just
> given me the runaround....
>

*Disclamer* poster is a satisfied santa crud customer

You slammed into a wall at 10-15 mph on an XC bike and:
1. are upset that the bike was damaged
2. are upset that the company wouldn't warrenty your mistake

So maybe you had a funky experience that got you the
superlight in the first place (no defence of SC service
here), but I'm reading that you crashed and broke your bike,
it's not like you were "just riding along". You can only
expect bikes to take a certian amount of abuse.

Also, I don't understand why, after breaking a heckler, you
(or they would "force" you) would switch to a weaker
superlight over a beefier bullit.

Michael Jones

"kantspel" <prefer@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:capujf$7j3$1@grandcanyon.binc.net...
>
> >>
>
> *Disclamer* poster is a satisfied santa crud customer
>
> You slammed into a wall at 10-15 mph on an XC bike and:
> 1. are upset that the bike was damaged
> 2. are upset that the company wouldn't warrenty your
> mistake
>
> So maybe you had a funky experience that got you the
> superlight in the first place (no defence of SC service
> here), but I'm reading that you crashed and broke your
> bike, it's not like you were "just riding along". You can
> only expect bikes to take a certian amount of abuse.
>
> Also, I don't understand why, after breaking a heckler,
> you (or they would "force" you) would switch to a weaker
> superlight over a beefier bullit.

First off, of course I was upset that I WRECKED MY BIKE, mea
culpa, mea culpa, maxima mea culpa...

The Heckler had a defective weld on the seat tube at the
bottom bracket. The SL was the only option available to
me at the time, (other than buying a new frame). They
will warranty it as per their crash replacement policy
which I spelled out for bomba.-

"They have a crash replacement warranty where they give/sell
you a new frame at 1/2 retail price. This way they keep you
as a client/rider. I offered to pay the difference of the SL
to Blur price. I made a point of telling the guy that, as
well as not being happy having been forced down to the SL in
the past... Funny thing though, they were willing to
exchange the SL for the Bullet..."

It's just their overall attitude

Mike (not trying to get over on anyone) Jones

Kantspel

Michael Jones wrote:
> "bomba" <myarse247@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> newsan.2004.06.16.16.23.48.679786@hotmail.com...
>
>>On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 15:41:54 +0000, Michael Jones wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I took the bike to the shop to see about getting a
>>> warranty
>
> replacement.
>
>>Warranty? Which part of the warranty is it that covers
>>stacking your bike in to a ditch?
>>
>>--
>>a.m-b FAQ: http://www.j-harris.net/bike/ambfaq.htm
>>
>>a.bmx FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/bmx_faq.htm
>
>
> They have a crash replacement warranty where they
> give/sell you a new frame at 1/2 retail price. This way
> they keep you as a client/rider. I offered to pay the
> difference of the SL to Blur price. I made a point of
> telling the guy that, as well as not being happy having
> been forced down to the SL in the past... Funny thing
> though, they were willing to exchange the SL for the
> Bullet...
>
> Mike-
>
>
Going to the bullit would seem like a logical step now that
two lighter bikes have broken under your care.

Michael Jones

"kantspel" <prefer@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:caq04q$7sa$1@grandcanyon.binc.net...
> Michael Jones wrote:
> > "bomba" <myarse247@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > newsan.2004.06.16.16.23.48.679786@hotmail.com...
>> >
> >
> Going to the bullit would seem like a logical step now
> that two lighter bikes have broken under your care.

The Heckler had a factory defective weld... Other than
stacking the SL in the ditch I don't ride extreme. I just
enjoy xc riding, the bullit is not made for that, IMHO.

Mike (at 41 years doesn't go big) Jones

Craig Brossman

bomba wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 15:41:54 +0000, Michael Jones wrote:
>
>
>> I took the bike to the shop to see about getting a
>> warranty replacement.
>
>
> Warranty? Which part of the warranty is it that covers
> stacking your bike in to a ditch?
>

Not fair, Bomba (and you usually are). Just a one line later
he uses what I consider the correct term, crash replacement.
" I took the bike to the shop to see about getting a
warranty replacement. They all really like the new look of
the frame. I left it there on the 5th, two weeks later no
word on warranty/crash replacement."

I know some manufacturers differentiate between warrenty and
crash replacement.
--
Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado (remove ".nospam" to reply)

Superslinky

Michael Jones said...

> "They have a crash replacement warranty where they
> give/sell you a new frame at 1/2 retail price. This way
> they keep you as a client/rider. I offered to pay the
> difference of the SL to Blur price. I made a point of
> telling the guy that, as well as not being happy having
> been forced down to the SL in the past... Funny thing
> though, they were willing to exchange the SL for the
> Bullet..."
>
> It's just their overall attitude
>
> Mike (not trying to get over on anyone) Jones

I can't understand why they wouldn't want you to have the
Blur if you were willing to pay the difference.