dizzy when riding

Badger_south

On 9 Jul 2004 14:09:56 GMT, Ben A Gozar <azigni@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I would really go and see my doctor and learn what the real
>cause is rather than guessing the most likely cause(s). It
>is a lot better to be a medication taking bicyclist than an
>expired one.
>
>I went and saw my doctor and found there were multiple
>things going on. My doctor estimates for every Man he see
>in his office there are at least 15 time bombs walking
>around getting ready to explode.

Let me get this straight. Are you saying (duh) that _in_
every Man he sees there are about 15 health problems the
could go 'off' at anytime, or of every 15 men he sees, there
is one who has an obvious health risk, like maybe severe
undetected hypertension?

OK, re-reading, it must be the latter.

The question that I have to ask now, is -how- the hell he
can make this estimate? It sounds like someone using a
'Scare Tactic'.

There's no freakin' way this is a responsible statement for
the MD to be making, for one thing, and yeah, the average
american male with their propensity to smoke and drink and
never get a check up is pretty obvious, but to put it in
those terms is just ridiculous.

I've been in the medical profession for 35 years and I'm
telling you he pulled this statement out of the wrong end of
his stethoscope, and it is so totally amorphous and broad,
as to make no sense at all.

-B

Badger_south

On 9 Jul 2004 17:05:04 -0700, dwcleck@bellsouth.net (Dwayne) wrote:

>Ben A Gozar <azigni@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:<Xns95215314A78E6svenyahoocom@130.133.1.4>...
>> I would really go and see my doctor and learn what the
>> real cause is rather than guessing the most likely
>> cause(s). It is a lot better to be a medication taking
>> bicyclist than an expired one.
>>
>> I went and saw my doctor and found there were multiple
>> things going on. My doctor estimates for every Man he see
>> in his office there are at least 15 time bombs walking
>> around getting ready to explode.
>
>Wow, excellent advice from everyone. I really appreciate
>all the tips. Only with a lot of options are you likely to
>find the right one. It is true that when I ride,
>afterwards my BP is very low. That could be the
>vasodilation thing. That sounds very likely. Stress is
>also a big factor right now. Also, not drinking something
>cool. My water is always hot. Everyone I ride with down
>here in Alabama drinks frozen water bottles and I don't. I
>will try the cooler water, some Gatorade, and take it a
>little easier. When I make my appoint with the doctor I
>will tell him my BP is dropping very much after a ride and
>maybe even during and its making me dizzy and see what he
>says. The only problem is, a lot of doctors don't like the
>idea of riding a bike 30 miles at a time. They think you
>should just walk regularly or something. That is not
>enough. Thanks for all the good advice and if anyone has
>more ideas, keep em coming.

Dude, go to a sports medicine doc, and in addition, make
sure that he's treating the same kinds of clients, i.e.
athletes, bike riders, joggers and soforth and perhaps one
that is an athlete himself. If you walk in his office,
despite what his specialty is and there's an overweight
cigar smoking guy, walk back out the door.

The best way is to get a refereral from someone at the local
running shop, which is often a nexus for this kind of
information, or talk to some of the other runners or bikers
and find one with a successful experience.

Do NOT go to a GP, (although you might have to insist
through your PCP that you get a referral) and when you walk
in have a name and phone number of the guy you want to be
referred to. Don't take no for an answer, b/c the PCP loses
a fee everytime he does a referral.

Good luck! -B

Leo Lichtman

"Badger_South" wrote:
(clip) Let me get this straight. Are you saying (duh) that
_in_ every Man he sees there are about 15 health
problems the could go 'off' at anytime, or of every
15 men he sees, there is one who has an obvious
health risk, like maybe severe undetected
hypertension? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ When I read it, I gave
it a totally different interpretation than either of
the above: For every man that he sees in the office,
he estimates there are 15 others with serious health
problems who are not coming in, and could be at
serious risk.

Ben A Gozar

Below is the way I meant my note to be read. It was an
estimation of course, but we men aren't exactly known to
be running to the doctor at the rate of women. The sad
news is once we pass forty things go wrong and we men tend
to die off rather suddenly. Two of my friends went in for
a check up only for the doctors to have bp readings on
both of them of almost

visited my doctor for completely different problems I could
no longer ignore and I found out I am not 16 any more. In
the United States at least, I think the Doctor may be closer
to correct, than farther from it.

At any rate I do not have an informed opinion on whether it
is a true statement or not, I was just passing on what was
told to me.

> When I read it, I gave it a totally different
> interpretation than either of the above: For every man
> that he sees in the office, he estimates there are 15
> others with serious health problems who are not coming in,
> and could be at serious risk.

Badger_south

On 10 Jul 2004 07:43:20 GMT, Ben A Gozar <azigni@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Below is the way I meant my note to be read. It was an
>estimation of course, but we men aren't exactly known to be
>running to the doctor at the rate of women. The sad news is
>once we pass forty things go wrong and we men tend to die
>off rather suddenly. Two of my friends went in for a check
>up only for the doctors to have bp readings on both of them
>of almost

>visited my doctor for completely different problems I could
>no longer ignore and I found out I am not 16 any more. In
>the United States at least, I think the Doctor may be
>closer to correct, than farther from it.
>
>At any rate I do not have an informed opinion on whether it
>is a true statement or not, I was just passing on what was
>told to me.
>
>> When I read it, I gave it a totally different
>> interpretation than either of the above: For every man
>> that he sees in the office, he estimates there are 15
>> others with serious health problems who are not coming
>> in, and could be at serious risk.

And I'm saying that if you are active, have no obvious
risk, such as smoking, overweight, alcoholic, and soforth
that there's no reason to be this paranoid. Of course if
you walk down the street you'll see lots of examples of
couch potatoes walking out of bars, chain smoking. I'd say
90% of these guys are at significant risk. But without
doing a physical, guess what? I'd be pulling that
estimation out of my ass.

Certain risk factors might be predictable based on your
genetics - many black men have high blood pressure, and for
them, over 40, go get that checked. Otherwise, to quote that
kind of figure to any particular patient is a scare tactic,
and meaningless. You pretty much know your risk factors,
b/c you know how you're abusing your body. But among a sub
group, such as bikers who have been doing it for 10 years
and are lean and fit and active and don't overdo their
vices, would that be the case? My dad is 81, active all
his life, and has smoked a pack of unfiltered cigs a day
since he was 25, and still going strong - go figure. In my
case, go look at my pic at 50 and tell me what kind of
risk factors I have.

http://www.pbase.com/image/18847396/medium

So, IMO, for your doc to say that is meaningless,
irresponsible (for making you paranoid, if it did) and he
could have said 9 out of 10 or 1 out of 100 and both been
right, depending on demographic.

I'll tell you what's dangerous, though. Go into any hospital
to have a minor procedure and your chances of never coming
out again are quite high, due to nosocomial infection
(hospital antibiotic resistant bugs), surgical mistakes, and
other misadventures. So I could say doctors - stay the freak
away from them, b/c you could be misdiagnosed or they could
just have seen a patient with resistant strep and forgot to
wash his hands. Did your doc wash his hands before he left
your exam room? He didn't? OMG! ;-)

Go check out some sites that talk about 'what they don't
tell you about medical exams'. Do you know that the devices
they use for endoscopy and rectal exams can not be properly
sterilized? THat's right, the chances are good that the last
patient they scoped has left a little bit of blood or body
fluid inside the device and now it's inside you. There's no
known way to sterilize against prion infections (mad cow),
so if you have an operation, you might be innoculated with
CJD and not know it. What if you're having an appendectomy
and they nick an artery and you have to get blood? Or the
anesthesiologist gives you the wrong gas (happened to my dad
and they tried to cover it up - he actually went into
cardiac arrest b/c they gave him 5 times the dose needed by
mistake when he had a kidney stone removed). See, it works
both ways. ;-p

OK, sorry for the rant....

-B

Mathias Koerber

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 04:27:22 +0000, Dwayne wrote:
> Yes, I have used a Powerade mix a couple of times, but got
> dizzy with and without it. What's interesting is, in the
> afternoons, if I go on a ride, I don't get dizzy.

Morning sickness?

SCNR

David Reuteler

Badger_South <Badger@south.net> wrote:
> In my case, go look at my pic at 50 and tell me what kind
> of risk factors I have.
>
> http://www.pbase.com/image/18847396/medium

well, for starters the glasses in

http://www.pbase.com/image/18847407/original

are commonly referred to as BCGs (birth control glasses) in
the air force tho perhaps the effect was intended. are those
parachute pants? a digital watch?

ch-rist, man, how do you climb with all that unnecessary
upper body mass?
--
david reuteler reuteler@visi.com

Badger_south

On 10 Jul 2004 16:00:51 GMT, David Reuteler <reuteler@visi.com> wrote:

>Badger_South <Badger@south.net> wrote:
>> In my case, go look at my pic at 50 and tell me what kind
>> of risk factors I have.
>>
>> http://www.pbase.com/image/18847396/medium
>
>well, for starters the glasses in
>
>http://www.pbase.com/image/18847407/original
>
>are commonly referred to as BCGs (birth control glasses) in
>the air force tho perhaps the effect was intended. are
>those parachute pants? a digital watch?

Part dweeb, part muscle-head, trying to blend in with the
biking crowd, now. What's not to like? ;-p

>ch-rist, man, how do you climb with all that unnecessary
>upper body mass?

All the better to crush thine enemies, see them driven
before you, and hear the lamentations of their wimmens?

-B Yep, I asked for that. Set myself right up, I did (d'oh).

David Reuteler

Badger_South <Badger@south.net> wrote:
>>ch-rist, man, how do you climb with all that unnecessary
>>upper body mass?
>
> All the better to crush thine enemies, see them driven
> before you, and hear the lamentations of their wimmens?

thought so! this is why i give you upper body types such a
wide berth when i pass.
--
david reuteler reuteler@visi.com

Badger_south

On 10 Jul 2004 17:04:15 GMT, David Reuteler <reuteler@visi.com> wrote:

>Badger_South <Badger@south.net> wrote:
>>>ch-rist, man, how do you climb with all that unnecessary
>>>upper body mass?
>>
>> All the better to crush thine enemies, see them driven
>> before you, and hear the lamentations of their wimmens?
>
>thought so! this is why i give you upper body types such a
>wide berth when i pass.

You may be passin' me now, but give me another year, you
young whippersnapper!

I did lose the geeky glasses, and went to contacts and a
nice pair of Optic Nerves, but my brother says I have a big
head, and when I stuff it in Styrofoam, well, let's just say
the snickering commenses! <g>

BTW, looks like you need to hire me on as a bodyguard. I got
some skillz in that area, plus the unnecessary upper body
mass intimidation thing goin' on, heh-heh.

http://www.visi.com/~reuteler/images/ouch.jpg

I'll get a new set with my Trek and all the biking gear when
I'm on vacation. The upper body has trimmed down a little
but the quads and calves are hyoouge. I think my calves are
like 18.5" cold, but need a little more defo.

-B BTW, nice bike
http://www.visi.com/~reuteler/images/seven.jpg You rule!

Ben A Gozar

If you look at Human life from an evolutionary point there
is no need for humans to live longer than to procreate and
watch the children leave home. At that time Nature has no
need for us. So I doubt there are many gene pools in the
world set to promote extra long life and good health. Until
the last century, 60 years was about all the world could
expect even in 'modern countries'. We are of the first
generations we know of who can look forward to a life span
longer than any known in the last thousands of years.

Great for you and your father, I am glad you both are in
such good health! By the way how many of your fathers school
friends are still around and active? Do either of you know
any other 81 year old smokers? Do you smoke too?

You seem to have taken great offense to my thoughts, hmmm,
feeling a little stressed at times? Quite a rant for a post
not directed towards yourself don't you think? Hypertension
makes people react that way you know. Maybe you are not as
healthy as you want to believe and you could be one of those
walking time bombs?

Lucky for me I know the state of my health, and I am pretty
healthy compared to others my age. Only took two hours of
my time. Not a high price to pay for peace of mind don't
you think?

There was a funeral for a coworker last week. He was a young
34 year old gym rat with three kids six years old and under.
He went home, ate dinner, sat on the couch fell asleep and
when his wife went to wake him, he was not there. His heart
burst while he slept on the couch. Like it or not out bodies
break down and we die, simple as that. Some of us just last
longer than others is all.

Have you looked up the statistics of people who died from
the flu last year in the United States? How about smoking or
cancer? And I didn't even mention Jim F., imagine that. Now
that I did how many like him fall over each day that we
never hear about?

Badger_south

On 10 Jul 2004 18:46:01 GMT, Ben A Gozar <azigni@yahoo.com> wrote:

>If you look at Human life from an evolutionary point there
>is no need for humans to live longer than to procreate and
>watch the children leave home. At that time Nature has no
>need for us. So I doubt there are many gene pools in the
>world set to promote extra long life and good health. Until
>the last century, 60 years was about all the world could
>expect even in 'modern countries'. We are of the first
>generations we know of who can look forward to a life span
>longer than any known in the last thousands of years.

Teleological - no basis in fact, that I'm aware of. Guess
I'm lucky. My grandparents on both sides lived to 100,
greatgrandparents 95ish. My physical age seems to be about
5-10 years under the chronological age, for both my brother,
who at 45 looks 30, and me at 53, and I look about 40.

>Great for you and your father, I am glad you both are in
>such good health! By the way how many of your fathers
>school friends are still around and active? Do either of
>you know any other 81 year old smokers? Do you smoke too?

Nope. Don't drink booze, smoke, never have. Drank some beer
in college, but quit 25 years ago.

>You seem to have taken great offense to my thoughts, hmmm,
>feeling a little stressed at times?

Actually the rant was directed at Doctors, Ben, and not at
you at all. Sorry if that came through like that. Apologies.

>Quite a rant for a post not directed towards yourself don't
>you think?

Yeah. Briefly, I had a problem with the piriformis muscle
and went in for a work up and the so-called Sports Med doc
tried to insist I needed a total hip replacement and put me
through the wringer. I'm just about healed now, due to my
biking. I was in some serious pain, acutely, and his only
motive was to cut me up and buy a big screen TV. Again,
sorry for the rant. ;-)

>Hypertension makes people react that way you know. Maybe
>you are not as healthy as you want to believe and you could
>be one of those walking time bombs?

I've had a full work up recently, including bone scan, BF%,
stress test, and you name it as part of a research project.
The guy who did the bone scan was sitting at the terminal
and went 'Jeeze!'. I'm laying on this table totally still
for like 20 min, and I go 'what? is something wrong'. He
goes, 'man you have the densest bones I've ever seen! I got
a copy of the scan and it looks like a scan of a gorilla - I
kid you not! Haha.

Take 'er easy man. Just be sure and get a second opinion on
anything a doc tells you. I worked in a hospital for 35
years and I've seen it all. (Pathologist, non-MD).

Best, -Badger

Dwayne

Badger_South <Badger@South.net> wrote in message news:<cobve0pdklp1hr4luqhvtu59kj28d500jr@4ax.com>...
> On 10 Jul 2004 07:43:20 GMT, Ben A Gozar
> <azigni@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Below is the way I meant my note to be read. It was an
> >estimation of course, but we men aren't exactly known to
> >be running to the doctor at the rate of women. The sad
> >news is once we pass forty things go wrong and we men
> >tend to die off rather suddenly. Two of my friends went
> >in for a check up only for the doctors to have bp
> >readings on both of them of almost

> >visited my doctor for completely different problems I
> >could no longer ignore and I found out I am not 16 any
> >more. In the United States at least, I think the Doctor
> >may be closer to correct, than farther from it.
> >
> >At any rate I do not have an informed opinion on whether
> >it is a true statement or not, I was just passing on what
> >was told to me.
> >
> >> When I read it, I gave it a totally different
> >> interpretation than either of the above: For every man
> >> that he sees in the office, he estimates there are 15
> >> others with serious health problems who are not coming
> >> in, and could be at serious risk.
>
> And I'm saying that if you are active, have no obvious
> risk, such as smoking, overweight, alcoholic, and soforth
> that there's no reason to be this paranoid. Of course if
> you walk down the street you'll see lots of examples of
> couch potatoes walking out of bars, chain smoking. I'd say
> 90% of these guys are at significant risk. But without
> doing a physical, guess what? I'd be pulling that
> estimation out of my ass.
>
> Certain risk factors might be predictable based on your
> genetics - many black men have high blood pressure, and
> for them, over 40, go get that checked. Otherwise, to
> quote that kind of figure to any particular patient is a
> scare tactic, and meaningless. You pretty much know your
> risk factors,
> b/c you know how you're abusing your body. But among a sub
> group, such as bikers who have been doing it for 10
> years and are lean and fit and active and don't overdo
> their vices, would that be the case? My dad is 81,
> active all his life, and has smoked a pack of unfiltered
> cigs a day since he was 25, and still going strong - go
> figure. In my case, go look at my pic at 50 and tell me
> what kind of risk factors I have.
>
> http://www.pbase.com/image/18847396/medium
>
> So, IMO, for your doc to say that is meaningless,
> irresponsible (for making you paranoid, if it did) and he
> could have said 9 out of 10 or 1 out of 100 and both been
> right, depending on demographic.
>
> I'll tell you what's dangerous, though. Go into any
> hospital to have a minor procedure and your chances of
> never coming out again are quite high, due to nosocomial
> infection (hospital antibiotic resistant bugs), surgical
> mistakes, and other misadventures. So I could say doctors
> - stay the freak away from them, b/c you could be
> misdiagnosed or they could just have seen a patient with
> resistant strep and forgot to wash his hands. Did your doc
> wash his hands before he left your exam room? He didn't?
> OMG! ;-)
>
> Go check out some sites that talk about 'what they don't
> tell you about medical exams'. Do you know that the
> devices they use for endoscopy and rectal exams can not be
> properly sterilized? THat's right, the chances are good
> that the last patient they scoped has left a little bit of
> blood or body fluid inside the device and now it's inside
> you. There's no known way to sterilize against prion
> infections (mad cow), so if you have an operation, you
> might be innoculated with CJD and not know it. What if
> you're having an appendectomy and they nick an artery and
> you have to get blood? Or the anesthesiologist gives you
> the wrong gas (happened to my dad and they tried to cover
> it up - he actually went into cardiac arrest b/c they gave
> him 5 times the dose needed by mistake when he had a
> kidney stone removed). See, it works both ways. ;-p
>
> OK, sorry for the rant....
>
> -B

Ok here's what happened this morning. I got up at 7:20 and
showered and got dressed and the entire time I was drinking
bottles of filtered water, about 3 bottles full, plus. Then
I ate a peanut butter granola bar and a small amount of
peanut butter for sustained energy. I checked my BP and it
was 129/92. I checked my blood sugar count with my wife's
kit and it was 102, before I ate anything (fasting). She
told me that was a fairly good reading, diabetes would be
130 - 200+, while fasting all night. then I took one 99 mg
potassium tablet and 3 cal/mag/zinc = 1000 mg total,
tablets. Then, I went riding for about 2 hours and rode
about 22 miles and the temp was about 77 with about 80 %
humid, the temp was normal but the humid. was a little less
than usual here. Everything went fine. I didn't get a bit
sick. I even pushed myself to do more and had no problems.
Even when my buddies wanted to turn back before it got too
hot, I wanted to go further but we turned back, probably a
good idea anyway, I thought. I rode all the way back with no
problems. then as soon as I got in the door at home, I check
my BP and it was 116/69. My heart rate was 98 BPM. I felt
perfectly fine and still full of energy. What gives? Was it
the potassium? WAs it the 3 bottles full of water before I
rode? Oh one more thing, during the ride I suddenly had to
"go". My bladder was full. So I stopped and did my business
and went on. Then when I got home I had to go again. That
doesn't usually happen.

Ben A Gozar

You have a pretty good gene pool behind you, you are
very lucky!

All I was suggesting, that op see a doctor.

There are a lot of serious problems that show up as
something else. For example I drink a large amount of water.
I also live in the high desert which doesn't help. I think
it is better to know some things up front. Falling over in a
diabetic coma with no one around would not be fun imo. My
sugar is normal for my age, so it's just my body reacting
and to dry warm air.

It is a lot better imo for op to know that he is dizzy
from heat and warm water than something that should not
be ignored.

Thanks for the note.