Can you use QR with fixed gear wheel?

Jacobe Hazzard

Is it OK to use a QR skewer on a fixed rear wheel? I have heard two
opinions.

1) No, never. Use a solid axle with real track nuts and tighten them down
hard.

2) Yeah, sure. Use a decent steel skewer with an enclosed cam, you'll be
fine.

I am hoping that #2 is the correct answer, but I would like to hear from
someone that's actually running one just to make sure. What kind of skewer
do you use?

Thanks.

A Muzi

Jacobe Hazzard wrote:
> Is it OK to use a QR skewer on a fixed rear wheel? I have heard two
> opinions.
> 1) No, never. Use a solid axle with real track nuts and tighten them down
> hard.
> 2) Yeah, sure. Use a decent steel skewer with an enclosed cam, you'll be
> fine.
-snip-
> What kind of skewer do you use?

For me, it's #2.
Early Simplex , the straight-handle one. I like the look.
They're steel,about the same cam height as Ca. or Sh.
My other fixed, 15mm nuts.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Peter Cole

"Jacobe Hazzard" <nospamfakeaddress@mousepotato.com> wrote in message
news:HwHjc.3966$x%R.1539@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> Is it OK to use a QR skewer on a fixed rear wheel? I have heard two
> opinions.
>
> 1) No, never. Use a solid axle with real track nuts and tighten them down
> hard.
>
> 2) Yeah, sure. Use a decent steel skewer with an enclosed cam, you'll be
> fine.
>
> I am hoping that #2 is the correct answer, but I would like to hear from
> someone that's actually running one just to make sure. What kind of skewer
> do you use?

I use a skewer, and I'm a very large person (6'10"/235). I bend axles
regularly, but I don't slip in the dropouts. I use a plain old Shimano skewer,
moderately tight. As said before, it's really a less challenging application
than a mountain bike.

Qui si parla Campagnolo

jacobe-<< Is it OK to use a QR skewer on a fixed rear wheel? I have heard two
opinions.

1) No, never. Use a solid axle with real track nuts and tighten them down
hard.

2) Yeah, sure. Use a decent steel skewer with an enclosed cam, you'll be
fine.

I am hoping that #2 is the correct answer,

It is, grease all the skewer parts..use steel.


Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Russell Seaton

"Jacobe Hazzard" <nospamfakeaddress@mousepotato.com> wrote in message news:<HwHjc.3966$x%R.1539@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...
> Is it OK to use a QR skewer on a fixed rear wheel? I have heard two
> opinions.
>
> 1) No, never. Use a solid axle with real track nuts and tighten them down
> hard.
>
> 2) Yeah, sure. Use a decent steel skewer with an enclosed cam, you'll be
> fine.
>
> I am hoping that #2 is the correct answer, but I would like to hear from
> someone that's actually running one just to make sure. What kind of skewer
> do you use?
>
> Thanks.

I use a steel quick release on my fixed gear bike. An old Shimano
one. Not the new style offset kind like Dura Ace has. No problems.
I do make the quick release extra tight.

Benjamin Lewis

Jacobe Hazzard wrote:

> Is it OK to use a QR skewer on a fixed rear wheel? I have heard two
> opinions.
>
> 1) No, never. Use a solid axle with real track nuts and tighten them down
> hard.
>
> 2) Yeah, sure. Use a decent steel skewer with an enclosed cam, you'll be
> fine.
>
> I am hoping that #2 is the correct answer, but I would like to hear from
> someone that's actually running one just to make sure. What kind of
> skewer do you use?

No problems here with a Shimano steel skewer. I occasionally examine the
dropouts for evidence of the axle slipping, and so far it's never budged.

On a fixie the tension in the chain is less than on a MTB with a granny
gear.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Marriage is a great institution -- but I'm not ready for an institution yet.
-- Mae West

Jacobe Hazzard

Benjamin Lewis wrote:
> No problems here with a Shimano steel skewer. I occasionally examine
> the dropouts for evidence of the axle slipping, and so far it's never
> budged.
>
> On a fixie the tension in the chain is less than on a MTB with a granny
> gear.

I think the argument is that a MTB can tolerate some slipping because the
derailler will keep the chain tension up anyhow.

Thanks to everyone who replied, add this to the long list of untruths from
my LBS. They wouldn't even discuss using a hollow axle in a fixed hub with
me.

Benjamin Lewis

Jacobe Hazzard wrote:

> Benjamin Lewis wrote:
>> No problems here with a Shimano steel skewer. I occasionally examine
>> the dropouts for evidence of the axle slipping, and so far it's never
>> budged.
>>
>> On a fixie the tension in the chain is less than on a MTB with a granny
>> gear.
>
> I think the argument is that a MTB can tolerate some slipping because the
> derailler will keep the chain tension up anyhow.
>
> Thanks to everyone who replied, add this to the long list of untruths
> from my LBS. They wouldn't even discuss using a hollow axle in a fixed
> hub with me.

Hollow axles are just as strong as solid axles. The material in the centre
does not add to the strength.

*I* certainly wouldn't want to tolerate my axle slipping on a MTB. Of
course, most MTBs have vertical dropouts now.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Marriage is a great institution -- but I'm not ready for an institution yet.
-- Mae West

Collin O'Neill

"Benjamin Lewis" <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> wrote in message
news:yy7ooepbiyi1.fsf@marge.cs.sfu.ca...
> Jacobe Hazzard wrote:
>
> > Benjamin Lewis wrote:
> >> No problems here with a Shimano steel skewer. I occasionally examine
> >> the dropouts for evidence of the axle slipping, and so far it's never
> >> budged.
> >>
> >> On a fixie the tension in the chain is less than on a MTB with a granny
> >> gear.
> >
> > I think the argument is that a MTB can tolerate some slipping because
the
> > derailler will keep the chain tension up anyhow.
> >
> > Thanks to everyone who replied, add this to the long list of untruths
> > from my LBS. They wouldn't even discuss using a hollow axle in a fixed
> > hub with me.
>
> Hollow axles are just as strong as solid axles. The material in the
centre
> does not add to the strength.

That can't be entirely true, especially for shear stress. Care to elaborate?
Although, I would concede that for practical purposes the strength is
adequate for both uses. I went to a solid axle on my SS because I had
cracked my axle in two and the mechanic said it was a good idea due to
higher forces on the axle. But when I thought about, I couldn't see many
differences between the force applied to the SS freewheel and my former
freewheel in the same gear, so why not stick with the skewer?

So, why do velodromes require nuts on solid axles? Does it have more to do
with braking forces? Do they just want to avoid missaplied quick-release
skewers?

>
> *I* certainly wouldn't want to tolerate my axle slipping on a MTB. Of
> course, most MTBs have vertical dropouts now.
>
> --
> Benjamin Lewis
>
> Marriage is a great institution -- but I'm not ready for an institution
yet.
> -- Mae West

Baird Webel

On 4/29/04 12:34 AM, in article
dB%jc.13271$3R7.11502@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com, "Collin O'Neill"
<coneill@pobox.com> wrote:

>
> "Benjamin Lewis" <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> wrote in message
> news:yy7ooepbiyi1.fsf@marge.cs.sfu.ca...

> So, why do velodromes require nuts on solid axles? Does it have more to do
> with braking forces? Do they just want to avoid missaplied quick-release
> skewers?

The velodromes I have ridden at don't require solid axles, they require hubs
without quick releases. Wheels with hollow axles and allen key closures are
generally accepted. IMO, this stems from two sources.

Primarily, it is tradition. There is some sort of misplaced fear that a QR
skewer will get hooked, open up, and cause a crash. Never heard of such a
thing on the road and have a very hard time seeing how it could happen.

Second, for races where you put a _lot_ of force on the rear wheel, i.e.
standing starts in the kilo/pursuit and jumping from a near stop in a match
sprint, bolt-on hubs that are bolted down well will hold the wheel on
better. Of course, the primary person who loses in this situation is the
one who slipped the wheel, so I don't really see why this is an argument for
mandating non-QR wheels, particularly when the allen key "non-QR" skewers
probably do a worse job of holding the wheel than a good regular QR skewer.

Baird

Sheldon Brown

Benjamin Lewis asked:

>>So, why do velodromes require nuts on solid axles? Does it have more to do
>>with braking forces? Do they just want to avoid missaplied quick-release
>>skewers?
>
Baird Webel replied:
>
> The velodromes I have ridden at don't require solid axles, they require hubs
> without quick releases. Wheels with hollow axles and allen key closures are
> generally accepted. IMO, this stems from two sources.
>
> Primarily, it is tradition. There is some sort of misplaced fear that a QR
> skewer will get hooked, open up, and cause a crash. Never heard of such a
> thing on the road and have a very hard time seeing how it could happen.

I believe that's correct. Furthermore, this requirement actually
considerably predates modern quick releases, I believe, and was
originally intended as a way of prohibiting the use of wingnuts. I
think that wingnuts were perceived, rightly or wrongly, as a risk of
causing stabbing/slashinc injuries in crashes.

> Second, for races where you put a _lot_ of force on the rear wheel, i.e.
> standing starts in the kilo/pursuit and jumping from a near stop in a match
> sprint, bolt-on hubs that are bolted down well will hold the wheel on
> better. Of course, the primary person who loses in this situation is the
> one who slipped the wheel, so I don't really see why this is an argument for
> mandating non-QR wheels, particularly when the allen key "non-QR" skewers
> probably do a worse job of holding the wheel than a good regular QR skewer.

In a velodrome situation, it would seem that the most likely time for
pulling an axle would be in a match sprint, and that it would happen at
a very low speed, just as the rider "jumped." That would be the maximal
loading.

Sheldon "Quick Release" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
| It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours |
| of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills |
| and coast down them. |
| Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a |
| motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have |
| no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven |
| through as you gain by riding a bicycle. |
| -- Ernest Hemingway, By-Line |
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Benjamin Lewis

Collin O'Neill wrote:

> "Benjamin Lewis" <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Hollow axles are just as strong as solid axles. The material in the
>> centre does not add to the strength.
>
> That can't be entirely true, especially for shear stress. Care to
> elaborate?

I believe in bicycles, axle failures are due to bending, not shear
stresses. Also, in practice, others have said that QR axles are made from
better material.

For more discussion of this topic, have a look at the following archived
thread from this newsgroup:
http://tinyurl.com/2qqb4

--
Benjamin Lewis

Seeing is deceiving. It's eating that's believing.
-- James Thurber

Benjamin Lewis

Sheldon Brown wrote:

> Benjamin Lewis asked:
>
>>> So, why do velodromes require nuts on solid axles? Does it have more to
>>> do with braking forces? Do they just want to avoid missaplied
>>> quick-release skewers?

That's a misattribution, actually. It was Collin who wrote that.

Just settin' the record straight,

--
Benjamin Lewis

Seeing is deceiving. It's eating that's believing.
-- James Thurber

Tim McNamara

"Collin O'Neill" <coneill@pobox.com> writes:

> That can't be entirely true, especially for shear stress. Care to
> elaborate? Although, I would concede that for practical purposes
> the strength is adequate for both uses. I went to a solid axle on
> my SS because I had cracked my axle in two and the mechanic said it
> was a good idea due to higher forces on the axle. But when I
> thought about, I couldn't see many differences between the force
> applied to the SS freewheel and my former freewheel in the same
> gear, so why not stick with the skewer?

I rode fixed gear for years with QRs. Worked just fine. I'm 6'4"
and about 210 lbs most of the time, so I can put a fair amount of
force into the pedals.

> So, why do velodromes require nuts on solid axles? Does it have more
> to do with braking forces? Do they just want to avoid missaplied
> quick-release skewers?

Our velodrome doesn't care about solid axles, but nuts rather than QRs
are required. The explanation given to me was IMHO specious, which
was that track racers bunch closer together and there is risk of a QR
lever getting flipped open in contact with another riders's wheel.