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13-04.-2004, 02:32 AM
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#16 |
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Re: Why I like George....
"Tim Mullin" <tvphotog@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:625c1cea.0404120757.19a2ca32@posting.google.com... > "psycholist" <technico@wctel.net> wrote in message news:<c5clil$d6t3$1@news3.infoave.net>... > > > Isn't a hunger knock an admission that you did something stupid? When I > > heard him talk about it, I thought that's what he was doing ... admitting > > he'd done something boneheaded. > > > > As for "the other guy warmed up in air conditioning" ... show me where Lance > > ever said that. Paul Sherwin and Phil said it. The media said it. But I > > think you're putting words into Lance's mouth. > > You're right on this point, but Armstrong and Carmichael did blame the > poor performance on dehydration (see lancearmstrong.com for > reference). Hunger knock, as you said, admitting he'd done something > boneheaded. The same for dehydration. The same for the rubbing brake. > In each case, Lance, in effect, is saying, "He didn't beat me I did > something stupid and beat myself." Whether intentional or not, it has > the effect of deminishing the winner's accomplishment. It's petty, > it's sad, and it says a great deal about Armstrong's character. When Gino Bartali lost a few minutes to Robic and Coppi in the first mountain stage of the Tour of '49 because of serious stomach troubles, a journalist said to him: "But it wasn't your own fault, you were sick". Bartali answered: "Of course it was my own fault. When a rider gets sick, it means his preparation wasn't good enough". Benjo Maso |
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13-04.-2004, 02:39 AM
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#17 |
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Re: Why I like George....
Tim Mullin <tvphotog@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<Xns94C8C2394D2F1tvphotogearthlinknet@207.69.154.205>...
> ....better than Lance. > > After today's PR, Hincape admits he just didn't have the legs after making > the break with Museeuw. No bullshit excuses, just an honest admission of > what every cyclist knows--some days the other guy is just faster than you. George is very dedicated classic's and domestique rider. George conducts himeslf in a very professional manner as well. George is the type of rider who can win a few stages and the occasional classic. As for Paris-Roubaix, something always seems to trip George up for some reason. > > Lance, on the other hand, always seems to have an excuse. A hunger knock. > The other guy warmed up in air conditioning. Everything, it seems, this > side of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Why can't he admit that--plain and > simple--on that day the other guy rode a better race? Not the hallmark of a > great champion in my book. |
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13-04.-2004, 04:12 AM
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#18 |
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Re: Why I like George....
Unless there's an obvious physical advantage, the difference between a five
time champ and a 5 time runnerup is that the champ thinks he's the best and it's his to loose. Maybe it makes us feel better to see a loser play nice, but it's hypocritical. I'd rather the guy tells us what he feels and believes than the usual sports cliche pap. Tim Mullin wrote: > "psycholist" <technico@wctel.net> wrote in message > news:<c5clil$d6t3$1@news3.infoave.net>... > >> Isn't a hunger knock an admission that you did something stupid? >> When I heard him talk about it, I thought that's what he was doing >> ... admitting he'd done something boneheaded. >> >> As for "the other guy warmed up in air conditioning" ... show me >> where Lance ever said that. Paul Sherwin and Phil said it. The >> media said it. But I think you're putting words into Lance's mouth. > > You're right on this point, but Armstrong and Carmichael did blame the > poor performance on dehydration (see lancearmstrong.com for > reference). Hunger knock, as you said, admitting he'd done something > boneheaded. The same for dehydration. The same for the rubbing brake. > In each case, Lance, in effect, is saying, "He didn't beat me I did > something stupid and beat myself." Whether intentional or not, it has > the effect of deminishing the winner's accomplishment. It's petty, > it's sad, and it says a great deal about Armstrong's character. |
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13-04.-2004, 04:30 AM
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#19 |
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Re: Why I like George....
I hear what you are saying about excuses but Eddy the greatest of all
time had alot of them the few times he got his ass kicked. trg" <trg@world.REMOVETHIS.std.com> wrote in message news:<407a5db3$0$517$636a15ce@news.free.fr>... > Callistus Valerius wrote: > > With Lance's book of excuses, I couldn't believe he used the > > brake rub one. If I used that one on a Fred ride, I'd get funny > > looks. > > But then, you get funny looks just walking down the street... |
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13-04.-2004, 05:16 AM
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#20 |
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Re: Why I like George....
"Randy Walton" <randywalton@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:Y%wec.19716$wP1.38863@attbi_s54: > Good point. I would have expected Cruz or Van Heeswijk to at least be > there. This caption says it all... > http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2...ndex.php?id=rac > eday/dsc_0091 Actually, it only tells us about George -- to really say it all, you would need similar photos for, say, the first 4 guys who rode into the velodrome with comments about their teammates. > "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:s5rec.36043$ZQ.29127@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com... >> > Kinda makes you wonder what someone like Bjarne Riis could do with > him... >> >> Or how he might do if he had a team mate (or two) somewhere past the >> first 50km of the race... The most striking thing in that Nike video >> a few > years >> back (the one that focused on Lance's preparation for the TDF, >> including riding up that mountain until the snow blocked the road, >> and then some) > was >> the Paris Roubaix coverage, where George is heard on the radio, >> wondering where his guys were, asking for a bit of help. I didn't see that video. Was it filmed the year George went head first into the ditch, and his helper Boonen had to go on and take George's spot on the podium? Oh, and I can't recall, but didn't George have teammates with him that day when Johann just motored away from them all with about 30 k to go? I recall Frankie being UP the road then. Hey, I like George too and wish him the best of luck, but I think you're going overboard in making excuses or trying to stack the deck in his favor. NS |
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13-04.-2004, 10:52 AM
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#21 |
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Re: Why I like George....
"Tim Mullin" <tvphotog@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:Xns94C8C2394D2F1tvphotogearthlinknet@207.69.154.205... > ....better than Lance. > > After today's PR, Hincape admits he just didn't have the legs after making > the break with Museeuw. No bullshit excuses, just an honest admission of > what every cyclist knows--some days the other guy is just faster than you. > > Lance, on the other hand, always seems to have an excuse. A hunger knock. > The other guy warmed up in air conditioning. Everything, it seems, this > side of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Why can't he admit that--plain and > simple--on that day the other guy rode a better race? Not the hallmark of a > great champion in my book. I said this years ago, that Lance has always had all of the marks of a bad loser. I thought the cancer episode might have helped him mature a bit but that lasted for only about 2 years or so. Since last year I am waiting for him to "fail to win" the Tour. He is such a fool that I am sure he will make it the most memorable day of his career. |
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13-04.-2004, 10:56 AM
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#22 |
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Re: Why I like George....
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:s5rec.36043$ZQ.29127@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com... > > Kinda makes you wonder what someone like Bjarne Riis could do with him... > > Or how he might do if he had a team mate (or two) somewhere past the first > 50km of the race... The most striking thing in that Nike video a few years > back (the one that focused on Lance's preparation for the TDF, including > riding up that mountain until the snow blocked the road, and then some) was > the Paris Roubaix coverage, where George is heard on the radio, wondering > where his guys were, asking for a bit of help. The real point here is that he did not complain through the media in spite of it happening many times throughout the past few years. > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles > http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com > > |
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13-04.-2004, 11:00 AM
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#23 |
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Re: Why I like George....
"benjo maso" <benjo.maso@chello.nl> wrote in message news:c5ejr2$qhn3$1@ID-75468.news.uni-berlin.de... > > "Tim Mullin" <tvphotog@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:625c1cea.0404120757.19a2ca32@posting.google.com... > > "psycholist" <technico@wctel.net> wrote in message > news:<c5clil$d6t3$1@news3.infoave.net>... > > > > > Isn't a hunger knock an admission that you did something stupid? When I > > > heard him talk about it, I thought that's what he was doing ... > admitting > > > he'd done something boneheaded. > > > > > > As for "the other guy warmed up in air conditioning" ... show me where > Lance > > > ever said that. Paul Sherwin and Phil said it. The media said it. But > I > > > think you're putting words into Lance's mouth. > > > > You're right on this point, but Armstrong and Carmichael did blame the > > poor performance on dehydration (see lancearmstrong.com for > > reference). Hunger knock, as you said, admitting he'd done something > > boneheaded. The same for dehydration. The same for the rubbing brake. > > In each case, Lance, in effect, is saying, "He didn't beat me I did > > something stupid and beat myself." Whether intentional or not, it has > > the effect of deminishing the winner's accomplishment. It's petty, > > it's sad, and it says a great deal about Armstrong's character. > > > When Gino Bartali lost a few minutes to Robic and Coppi in the first > mountain stage of the Tour of '49 because of serious stomach troubles, a > journalist said to him: "But it wasn't your own fault, you were sick". > Bartali answered: "Of course it was my own fault. When a rider gets sick, it > means his preparation wasn't good enough". > > Benjo Maso I love it. Everyone expects so much more from George and I expect so much more from Lance Romance. All of the complaints about Lance are totally within his control to correct. |
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13-04.-2004, 12:43 PM
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#24 |
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Re: Why I like George....
Nev Shea <spamtrap@garbage.net> wrote:
> >> the Paris Roubaix coverage, where George is heard on the radio, > >> wondering where his guys were, asking for a bit of help. > I didn't see that video. Was it filmed the year George went head first > into the ditch, and his helper Boonen had to go on and take George's spot > on the podium? Oh, and I can't recall, but didn't George have teammates > with him that day when Johann just motored away from them all with about > 30 k to go? I recall Frankie being UP the road then. That was the year in between those two, where Knaven was up the road ahead of Georgie, Museeuw, and a few others (Vainsteins, also Domo), so chasing would just have towed Johan to the front. Georgie had a point there. Even in P-R, it does help to have numbers on your side. > Hey, I like George too and wish him the best of luck, but I think you're > going overboard in making excuses or trying to stack the deck in his > favor. |
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13-04.-2004, 01:49 PM
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#25 |
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Re: Why I like George....
"trg" <trg@world.REMOVETHIS.std.com> wrote in
news:407aea0f$0$504$636a15ce@news.free.fr: > Maybe it makes us feel better to see a > loser play nice, but it's hypocritical. I'd rather the guy tells us > what he feels and believes than the usual sports cliche pap. It doesn't have anything to do with playing nice. It has everything to do with stating the obvious. Some days the other guy is better/faster/luckier. That's just the way it is. |
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13-04.-2004, 07:26 PM
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#26 |
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Re: Why I like George....
Tim Mullin wrote:
> "trg" <trg@world.REMOVETHIS.std.com> wrote in > news:407aea0f$0$504$636a15ce@news.free.fr: > >> Maybe it makes us feel better to see a >> loser play nice, but it's hypocritical. I'd rather the guy tells us >> what he feels and believes than the usual sports cliche pap. > > It doesn't have anything to do with playing nice. It has everything > to do with stating the obvious. Some days the other guy is > better/faster/luckier. That's just the way it is. Obvious for you maybe, but not for the guy who refuses to admit defeat. That part of the psychology of being a winner. When someone says they lost because of dehydration, or a rubbing brake, or whatever, to them they're stating the obvious. Let them tell it like they see it. |
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13-04.-2004, 08:17 PM
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#27 |
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Re: Why I like George....
On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:26:36 +0200, "trg"
<trg@world.REMOVE.THIS.std.com> wrote: >Obvious for you maybe, but not for the guy who refuses to admit defeat. That >part of the psychology of being a winner. When someone says they lost >because of dehydration, or a rubbing brake, or whatever, to them they're >stating the obvious. Let them tell it like they see it. I think it is also that Lance is most often interviewed at the end of a stage, not the end of the race. For Lance, the issue is not just today's stage, he is thinking in terms of the next day. If you have just finished a one day classic, its over. Whatever happened, you get a beer (or whatever) and move on. In the stage race, if you're a GC rider, you have to be thinking in terms of whether what happened is momentary, something to be addressed someway tomorrow, or a serious problem. You say the other guy was simply better today and everyone starts talking about how you're going to lose the next time trial by a minute plus. Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels... |
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13-04.-2004, 10:49 PM
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#28 |
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Re: Why I like George....
"Nev Shea" <spamtrap@garbage.net> wrote in message
news:nOCec.7062$A_4.599@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net... > Oh, and I can't recall, but didn't George have teammates with him > that day when Johann just motored away from them all with about > 30 k to go? Just like he did to EVERYONE else? Why, shit, no WONDER that George can't win. |
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13-04.-2004, 11:59 PM
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#29 |
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Re: Why I like George....
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 23:05:28 GMT, Tim Mullin <tvphotog@earthlink.net>
wrote: >....better than Lance. > >Why can't he admit that--plain and >simple--on that day the other guy rode a better race? Not the hallmark of a >great champion in my book. Well of course! Great champions are not defined by their race results, like winning five TdFs in a row. It's their interview technique that truly defines them. jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3 |
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14-04.-2004, 03:49 AM
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#30 |
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Re: Why I like George....
John Everett <jeverett3@earthlink.DEFEAT.UCE.BOTS.net> wrote in message news:<41vn701hd7jered8n0gbur3mnantlnmrho@4ax.com>...
> On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 23:05:28 GMT, Tim Mullin <tvphotog@earthlink.net> > wrote: > > >....better than Lance. > > > >Why can't he admit that--plain and > >simple--on that day the other guy rode a better race? Not the hallmark of a > >great champion in my book. > > Well of course! Great champions are not defined by their race results, > like winning five TdFs in a row. It's their interview technique that > truly defines them. Let me just interject with the way I feel, and I'm sure a lot of other people feel as well: I AM SICK OF LANCE ARMSTRONG. It is WAY past time for the sport to have a third and fourth former TdF champion riding in the peloton. There are four Giro winners, and five Vuelta winners, one of whom (Zuelle) is retiring soon... but only two Tour winners. Let's get some variety... as long as it isn't Lance Armstrong or Jan Ullrich. Here are some examples of ideal situations: Joseba Beloki DNS, Sylvain Chavanel takes up the mantle and wins. Iban Mayo and Haimar Zubeldia 1-2 in Paris, or vice versa. Christophe Moreau finally comes out of his shell. Bobby Julich finally lives up to his potential. Levi Leipheimer redeems. Tyler Hamilton puts in a thrilling solo attack into Paris and beats Ullrich on the last day. Roberto Heras beats his former team leader into the ground, with the help of Christian Vandevelde and Isidro Nozal. Here are some examples of bad outcomes: Lance Armstrong breaks the record and we all suffer through one more year of Krispy Kreme trolls on rec.bicycles.racing. Jan Ullrich comes back from crashing his drunk ass into a bike rack and repeats his 1997 victory, having won nothing else the entire season. |
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