EPO and Hobby Cyclists

h squared

h squared wrote:
> perhaps instead
> he should have provided his own supporting evidence?

ps. i see where he wrote that he would do the homework that coggan
provided, that's cool, just had to speak up (or indulge in my own round
of butt kissing, whatever you prefer) for carl.

h

Phil

"Gunny Bunny" <none@none.com> wrote in message news:<249gc.33302$2Z6.1326056@news20.bellglobal.com>...
> Is EPO really that easy to get ahold of and is it really that dangerous ??
>
--snip--

Seems to me good solid traininng would make more of a difference to
hobby atheletes. How many of us get THAT close to our maximum
ability.

Regards

http://runners4bush2004.rantweb.com

Tom Kunich

"Carl Sundquist" <carlsun@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
news:108anh3f5oiqr92@corp.supernews.com...
> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:rcbhc.2032$eZ5.324@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > "Carl Sundquist" <carlsun@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
> > news:782bd281.0404200552.572aa282@posting.google.com...
> > >
> > > So is that the premise of how an altitude tent works? Your muscles are
> > > drawing out all the oxygen in your blood as you sleep, so therefore
> > > the body must produce more RBCs? Sleep high, train low because you're
> > > using more muscle and oxygen while you're sleeping?
> >
> > When your blood oxygen runs below 96% or so it causes the body to
release
> > more natural EPO.
>
> That's fine. Now go re-read what Mr. Nobody said about our muscles not
being
> "trained" like elite athletes, therefore we're not using all the O2 in our
> blood anyway and unable to take advantage of an increased 'crit.

That wasn't what I was agreeing with. I was agreeing with the statement that
people don't use the oxygen they have present in their blood. That's true
and correct but only as far as it goes. In order for everything to operate
properly your blood oxygen must stay pretty close to saturation.

My ex-brother-in-law was something of a world record as the only person to
live to 40 years old with no pulmonary artery. His blood oxygen was stable
at about 76% if memory serves and his blood was always pretty thick because
of that. Finally they transplanted a pulmonary artery in him and the
presence of oxygen made him so giddy he was like a drunk for a couple of
years until his body got used to it.

As you intimate, the training of the muscles has almost nothing to do with
the delivery of oxygen to them. Although I believe that more well trained
muscles have more mitochondria than untrained muscles. So maybe to a very
small extent the statement that more highly trained athletes better use
oxygen might be somewhat true. But certainly hematocrit has little to do
with this mechanism.

Tom Kunich

"h squared" <peckledoggyremovetoreply@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:40856475.A72873BD@hotmail.com...
>
> leaving the subject itself behind, isn't it somewhat amusing that the
> person who wrote that post would bust ("Thank you please play again.")
> on carl for not providing research cites in his reply? perhaps instead
> he should have provided his own supporting evidence?

Generally I've stopped supplying cites because that is generally the tactic
of people who don't know what they're talking about. There have been any
number of times, recently I've written something and people have demanded
citations for things that could be varified in seconds using Google or
Yahoo! with no help from anyone else.

That sort of thing seems to be going around these days. In the political
arena alone recently we've seen Richard Clarke write that Condoleesa Rice
acted as if she had no idea what Al Queda was. The only trouble here was
that a year before her supposed ignorance of a major terrorist group she did
a recorded talk on that very subject.

Just recently we see Bob Woodward write a book claiming that Colin Powell (a
man of rather towering intellect) was "out of the loop" and "not aware of
the war plans in Iraq" only for General Powell to claim that entirely
inaccurate.

What we are seeing is some sort of mass mental aberation in which writers
are telling us what other people about whom they know nothing are thinking.
Seems like the same guys are making comments about Hincapie.

Tom Kunich

"Phil" <runners4bush2004@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:8bd8dc13.0404201330.264ca6f6@posting.google.com...
> "Gunny Bunny" <none@none.com> wrote in message
news:<249gc.33302$2Z6.1326056@news20.bellglobal.com>...
> > Is EPO really that easy to get ahold of and is it really that dangerous
??
> >
> --snip--
>
> Seems to me good solid traininng would make more of a difference to
> hobby atheletes. How many of us get THAT close to our maximum
> ability.

EXACTLY. EPO won't make you fast. It will help KEEP a top flight athlete
fast over a longer period of time.

Robert Chung

Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> Generally I've stopped supplying cites because that is generally the
> tactic of people who don't know what they're talking about. There have
> been any number of times, recently I've written something and people
> have demanded citations for things that could be varified in seconds
> using Google or Yahoo! with no help from anyone else.
>
> That sort of thing seems to be going around these days. In the political
> arena alone recently we've seen Richard Clarke write that Condoleesa
> Rice acted as if she had no idea what Al Queda was. The only trouble
> here was that a year before her supposed ignorance of a major terrorist
> group she did a recorded talk on that very subject.

Cite, please?

Howard Kveck

In article <lCmhc.3054$eZ5.1570@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Generally I've stopped supplying cites because that is generally the tactic
> of people who don't know what they're talking about.

I'd suggest that most people who provide cites do so for the purpose of
providing further edification on the subject at hand and, furthermore, to
allow the public at large who may be reading these posts to understand that
the poster has done some homework. In other words, to suggest that they are
not plucking their 'facts' from the ether (or their nether region).

Just saying...

> That sort of thing seems to be going around these days. In the political
> arena alone recently we've seen Richard Clarke write that Condoleesa Rice
> acted as if she had no idea what Al Queda was. The only trouble here was
> that a year before her supposed ignorance of a major terrorist group she did
> a recorded talk on that very subject.
>
> Just recently we see Bob Woodward write a book claiming that Colin Powell (a
> man of rather towering intellect) was "out of the loop" and "not aware of
> the war plans in Iraq" only for General Powell to claim that entirely
> inaccurate.

So politicians never lie, especially when it suits them? Heh...

--
tanx,
Howard

Q: Can we call it a quagmire yet?

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Stewart Fleming

Tom Kunich wrote:

> number of times, recently I've written something and people have demanded
> citations for things that could be varified in seconds using Google or
> Yahoo! with no help from anyone else.
>
> That sort of thing seems to be going around these days. In the political
> arena alone recently we've seen Richard Clarke write that Condoleesa Rice
> acted as if she had no idea what Al Queda was. The only trouble here was

Talking of Dr Rice...
"Rice's selection of sources raises questions, since he [sic] frequently
does not sift facts from propaganda and valid information from
disinformation or misinformation. He passes judgments and expresses
opinions without adequate knowledge of facts."
Review in American Historical Review (1985)
http://www.counterpunch.org/kalvoda04202004.html

Ya, I only checked the Web version, not the original source...

John Forrest Tomlinson

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 06:33:33 +0200, "Robert Chung" <me2@privacy.net>
wrote:

>Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>> Generally I've stopped supplying cites because that is generally the
>> tactic of people who don't know what they're talking about. There have
>> been any number of times, recently I've written something and people
>> have demanded citations for things that could be varified in seconds
>> using Google or Yahoo! with no help from anyone else.
>>
>> That sort of thing seems to be going around these days. In the political
>> arena alone recently we've seen Richard Clarke write that Condoleesa
>> Rice acted as if she had no idea what Al Queda was. The only trouble
>> here was that a year before her supposed ignorance of a major terrorist
>> group she did a recorded talk on that very subject.
>
>Cite, please?
>
Tom is in my killfile for making too much stuff up. And again he
confirms his willingness to just state fantasy as fact. Sad.

JT

Nev Shea

"Robert Chung" <me2@privacy.net> wrote in news:c64tj2$81l81$1@ID-
226327.news.uni-berlin.de:

> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>> Generally I've stopped supplying cites because that is generally the
>> tactic of people who don't know what they're talking about. There have
>> been any number of times, recently I've written something and people
>> have demanded citations for things that could be varified in seconds
>> using Google or Yahoo! with no help from anyone else.
>>
>> That sort of thing seems to be going around these days. In the
political
>> arena alone recently we've seen Richard Clarke write that Condoleesa
>> Rice acted as if she had no idea what Al Queda was. The only trouble
>> here was that a year before her supposed ignorance of a major
terrorist
>> group she did a recorded talk on that very subject.
>
> Cite, please?


He probably saw that on FOX news, and of course they know what they are
talking about because they don't cite sources either.

NS

PS -- thanks Robert, for posting links to the PIPA report a while back

Robert Chung

Nev Shea wrote:
>
> PS -- thanks Robert, for posting links to the PIPA report a while back

Sometimes I think that report is amusing. The rest of the time I think
that report is scary.

http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/I...02_03_Press.pdf

Tom Kunich

"Howard Kveck" <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote in message
news:YOURhoward-196D74.00123821042004@netnews.comcast.net...
> In article <lCmhc.3054$eZ5.1570@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Generally I've stopped supplying cites because that is generally the
tactic
> > of people who don't know what they're talking about.
>
> I'd suggest that most people who provide cites do so for the purpose of
> providing further edification on the subject at hand and, furthermore, to
> allow the public at large who may be reading these posts to understand
that
> the poster has done some homework. In other words, to suggest that they
are
> not plucking their 'facts' from the ether (or their nether region).
>
> Just saying...
>
> > That sort of thing seems to be going around these days. In the political
> > arena alone recently we've seen Richard Clarke write that Condoleesa
Rice
> > acted as if she had no idea what Al Queda was. The only trouble here was
> > that a year before her supposed ignorance of a major terrorist group she
did
> > a recorded talk on that very subject.
> >
> > Just recently we see Bob Woodward write a book claiming that Colin
Powell (a
> > man of rather towering intellect) was "out of the loop" and "not aware
of
> > the war plans in Iraq" only for General Powell to claim that entirely
> > inaccurate.
>
> So politicians never lie, especially when it suits them? Heh...

So despite the fact that Condoleesa Rice's talk, the recording of which has
been widely played on radio and television, you are willing to tell us that
she is lying, and I am making it up and not some guy who stands to make
about a million dollars on his book if he can generate enough sales through
controversy?

And although General Powell makes absolutely nothing out of lying about his
knowledge of the plans concerning Iraq, and the fact that he is a man of
extremely high morals and ethics, you believe that some clown who has lied
in the past about his information sources is more creditable than Colin
Powell speaking on TV all day yesterday.

I think that you have proven my point about the mental aberations of your
end of the political spectrum.

Tom Kunich

"Stewart Fleming" <stewart.fleming@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:Ijphc.2498$cY5.210917@news02.tsnz.net...
>
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> > number of times, recently I've written something and people have
demanded
> > citations for things that could be varified in seconds using Google or
> > Yahoo! with no help from anyone else.
> >
> > That sort of thing seems to be going around these days. In the political
> > arena alone recently we've seen Richard Clarke write that Condoleesa
Rice
> > acted as if she had no idea what Al Queda was. The only trouble here was
>
> Talking of Dr Rice...
> "Rice's selection of sources raises questions, since he [sic] frequently
> does not sift facts from propaganda and valid information from
> disinformation or misinformation. He passes judgments and expresses
> opinions without adequate knowledge of facts."
> Review in American Historical Review (1985)
> http://www.counterpunch.org/kalvoda04202004.html

So, Stewart, you find a "review" such as this informative despite the fact
that they don't even know that Condoleezza Rice is a woman? And despite the
fact that this appears to be from 20 years ago?

Stewart Fleming

Tom Kunich wrote:

> So, Stewart, you find a "review" such as this informative despite the fact
> that they don't even know that Condoleezza Rice is a woman? And despite the
> fact that this appears to be from 20 years ago?

As an academic, I'm often expected to conduct blind review of papers.
Are you saying that the reviews that I write are invalid because I don't
know the gender, race or identity of the author?

[Amusing to note that the original author of that review is hoist on his
own petard though, not checking out the background details and relying
on some secondary source :-)]

The fact that it's from 20 years ago, well passage of time I can do
nothing about. Verdict of history doesn't matter anyway. We'll all be
dead.