Jan: No Doyenne

Richard Adams

Tim Mullin wrote:

> "Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in
> news:408aa489$0$10896$a0ced6e1@news.skynet.be:
>
>
>>OK, I'd better not write him off yet as he has a good track record in
>>the Tour. But Ullrich was in better shape and seemed to be better
>>mentally with the Coast/Bianchi chaos last year than he is with the
>>old crowd in Telekom this year.
>
>
> Perhaps the difference is that Ullrich is looking for results beyond the
> Tour? Armstrong can afford to be at peak form earlier, because after the
> TdF, his season is over. IIRC, Ullrich has stated a desire to target the
> Olympics and Worlds as well. With those additional goals in mind, perhaps
> he's not that far off schedule?
>
> Just thinking out loud here....

He'd best watch himself. Jens Voigt is doing pretty nicely in Georgia
and has had a pretty decent season so far. Good move to CSC.

Kyle Legate

TM wrote:
>
> Are you guys suggesting that the people who finish ahead of you in a
> race (assuming you race) do so because you don't have the heart or
> mind of a champion?
>
This raises an interesting question. Pro teams hire soigneurs, mechanics,
managers, doctors, etc., but do any squads have a hired sport psychologist,
or does that role fall on the DS?

Tom Kunich

"Richard Adams" <ackthpt@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:c6fegv$is6@dispatch.concentric.net...
>
> He'd best watch himself. Jens Voigt is doing pretty nicely in Georgia
> and has had a pretty decent season so far. Good move to CSC.

You couldn't POSSIBLY be comparing TdG with TdF? Jens won't finish in the
top 10.

Richard Adams

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "Richard Adams" <ackthpt@concentric.net> wrote in message
> news:c6fegv$is6@dispatch.concentric.net...
>
>>He'd best watch himself. Jens Voigt is doing pretty nicely in Georgia
>>and has had a pretty decent season so far. Good move to CSC.
>
>
> You couldn't POSSIBLY be comparing TdG with TdF? Jens won't finish in the
> top 10.
>
>

No, I'm simply stating that other riders are doing very well, much
better after some team changes. Riis certainly seems to have a positive
effect on former domestiques and lieutenants. After all, even Julich
seems to be having a renaissance season. He certainly knows what the
tour podium looks like.

h squared

Carl Sundquist wrote:
>

> Even if they had caught up

64.2 mph? i think you were safe
(although crashing at that speed would suck)

how did you get involved with that stuff? did they approach you or was
it something that you decided on your own to do?

and i can't believe that guy (penseyres) rode the stp in 7.5 hours. it
takes us about 3 hours on the *freeway* to drive from seattle to portland.

heather

Carl Sundquist

"h squared" <peckledoggyremovetoreply@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > Even if they had caught up
>
> 64.2 mph? i think you were safe
> (although crashing at that speed would suck)

It did suck. On the next run after the video clip, the rear tire blew off
the rim. You can't use much body English in an enclosed HPV to try to
compensate for a tire that's washing out from underneath you, so I ended up
steering off the road at about 55 mph. Hit a ditch, flipped over, and
according to the CHP officer hired to close the road for the runs, I was
airborne for about 45 feet (he measured with the little wheel-thingy they
use at accident sites). Fortunately, I suffered only a chipped vertebrae,
although it made it difficult to breathe deeply for awhile. The fairing for
the bike was crushed, though. On my flight home, the airlines took no
sympathy or notice of the cervical collar I was wearing and kept me in
coach.

>
> how did you get involved with that stuff? did they approach you or was
> it something that you decided on your own to do?

They approached me in an very indirect way. It was by sheer dumb luck that I
was able to be involved. Of course when it started, I was only a local racer
with a year's racing under my belt.

>
> and i can't believe that guy (penseyres) rode the stp in 7.5 hours. it
> takes us about 3 hours on the *freeway* to drive from seattle to portland.
>

Despite my recollection that it a minimal effort to get that bike up to 40
mph, he's a pretty amazing guy, isn't he?

Robert Chung

h squared wrote:
> it takes us about 3 hours on the *freeway* to drive from
> seattle to portland.

It's taken me 3 hours on the freeway to drive from Santa Monica to
Pasadena.

Tom Kunich

"Richard Adams" <ackthpt@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:c6ghss$qe4@dispatch.concentric.net...
> Tom Kunich wrote:
> > "Richard Adams" <ackthpt@concentric.net> wrote in message
> > news:c6fegv$is6@dispatch.concentric.net...
> >
> >>He'd best watch himself. Jens Voigt is doing pretty nicely in Georgia
> >>and has had a pretty decent season so far. Good move to CSC.
> >
> > You couldn't POSSIBLY be comparing TdG with TdF? Jens won't finish in
the
> > top 10.
>
> No, I'm simply stating that other riders are doing very well, much
> better after some team changes. Riis certainly seems to have a positive
> effect on former domestiques and lieutenants. After all, even Julich
> seems to be having a renaissance season. He certainly knows what the
> tour podium looks like.

Oh, I agree completely with you on that count. Riis is working miracles with
his people. He seems able to get the best out of each man. But his team
strategy is to get stage wins and he does that by taking guys who are so far
back on GC that the pack won't chase them and then having them go on long
early breaks.

Now, there's a certain genius to that since he has CSC plastered all over
the headlines, but that isn't winning the Tour.

Tom Kunich

"Robert Chung" <me2@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:c6h0u6$bjldk$1@ID-226327.news.uni-berlin.de...
> h squared wrote:
> > it takes us about 3 hours on the *freeway* to drive from
> > seattle to portland.
>
> It's taken me 3 hours on the freeway to drive from Santa Monica to
> Pasadena.

Yeah, but that's because you're DWA.

Carl Sundquist

"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> Oh, I agree completely with you on that count. Riis is working miracles
with
> his people. He seems able to get the best out of each man. But his team
> strategy is to get stage wins and he does that by taking guys who are so
far
> back on GC that the pack won't chase them and then having them go on long
> early breaks.
>
> Now, there's a certain genius to that since he has CSC plastered all over
> the headlines, but that isn't winning the Tour.
>

But of the approx 22 teams in the TdF each year, how many riders have a
realistic chance of winning it? If that was all there was to the race, then
they wouldn't celebrate stage winners or the various jersey holders (other
than yellow of course). What reason do those other teams have for entering
the race, if not to win individual GC?

Richard Adams

Tom Kunich wrote:

> "Richard Adams" <ackthpt@concentric.net> wrote in message
> news:c6ghss$qe4@dispatch.concentric.net...
>
>>Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>>>"Richard Adams" <ackthpt@concentric.net> wrote in message
>>>news:c6fegv$is6@dispatch.concentric.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>>He'd best watch himself. Jens Voigt is doing pretty nicely in Georgia
>>>>and has had a pretty decent season so far. Good move to CSC.
>>>
>>>You couldn't POSSIBLY be comparing TdG with TdF? Jens won't finish in
>
> the
>
>>>top 10.
>>
>>No, I'm simply stating that other riders are doing very well, much
>>better after some team changes. Riis certainly seems to have a positive
>>effect on former domestiques and lieutenants. After all, even Julich
>>seems to be having a renaissance season. He certainly knows what the
>>tour podium looks like.
>
>
> Oh, I agree completely with you on that count. Riis is working miracles with
> his people. He seems able to get the best out of each man. But his team
> strategy is to get stage wins and he does that by taking guys who are so far
> back on GC that the pack won't chase them and then having them go on long
> early breaks.
>
> Now, there's a certain genius to that since he has CSC plastered all over
> the headlines, but that isn't winning the Tour.

Which could lead back to the fertile "what-if" ground of Tyler Hamilton,
but that's been beaten to death. I think a healthy Tyler would have had
Jan looking over his shoulder.

Tom Kunich

"Carl Sundquist" <carlsun@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
news:108o3j67nvh107a@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >
> > Oh, I agree completely with you on that count. Riis is working miracles
> with
> > his people. He seems able to get the best out of each man. But his team
> > strategy is to get stage wins and he does that by taking guys who are so
> far
> > back on GC that the pack won't chase them and then having them go on
long
> > early breaks.
> >
> > Now, there's a certain genius to that since he has CSC plastered all
over
> > the headlines, but that isn't winning the Tour.
> >
>
> But of the approx 22 teams in the TdF each year, how many riders have a
> realistic chance of winning it? If that was all there was to the race,
then
> they wouldn't celebrate stage winners or the various jersey holders (other
> than yellow of course). What reason do those other teams have for entering
> the race, if not to win individual GC?

I'm not criticizing Riis's strategy. He doesn't have anyone that can
challenge Lance and yet he's managed to pick up a mess of one day and stage
wins and now has probably the second best known team in Europe. The sponsors
must be deleriously happy with Riis.

Tom Kunich

"Richard Adams" <ackthpt@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:c6ha0h$qdp@dispatch.concentric.net...
> Tom Kunich wrote:
> >
> > Now, there's a certain genius to that since he has CSC plastered all
over
> > the headlines, but that isn't winning the Tour.
>
> Which could lead back to the fertile "what-if" ground of Tyler Hamilton,
> but that's been beaten to death. I think a healthy Tyler would have had
> Jan looking over his shoulder.

I think that Jan and Lance are on the same level and Beloki, Hamilton and
maybe Mayo and Zubeldia. And just within range of these four guys are Basso,
Moreau and Vinokourov. If Jan and Lance didn't show up we would have a
wing-ding of a race like Fignon and LeMond in '89 with the jersey bouncing
back and forth all race.

I also believe that Landis only needs two more years of good training to be
at Tour level.

I'd like to know what happened to Horner on Bald Mountain. He lost 10
seconds to Lance who isn't in anything like his Tour shape. After seeing the
speed and power of Horner I can't figure that one out.

Richard Adams

Tom Kunich wrote:

> "Richard Adams" <ackthpt@concentric.net> wrote in message
> news:c6ha0h$qdp@dispatch.concentric.net...
>
>>Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>>>Now, there's a certain genius to that since he has CSC plastered all
>
> over
>
>>>the headlines, but that isn't winning the Tour.
>>
>>Which could lead back to the fertile "what-if" ground of Tyler Hamilton,
>>but that's been beaten to death. I think a healthy Tyler would have had
>>Jan looking over his shoulder.
>
>
> I think that Jan and Lance are on the same level and Beloki, Hamilton and
> maybe Mayo and Zubeldia. And just within range of these four guys are Basso,
> Moreau and Vinokourov. If Jan and Lance didn't show up we would have a
> wing-ding of a race like Fignon and LeMond in '89 with the jersey bouncing
> back and forth all race.
>
> I also believe that Landis only needs two more years of good training to be
> at Tour level.
>
> I'd like to know what happened to Horner on Bald Mountain. He lost 10
> seconds to Lance who isn't in anything like his Tour shape. After seeing the
> speed and power of Horner I can't figure that one out.
>
>

Horner's been on a tear. He just blew past Mike Jones at the Sea Otter
(and I think Jones took it a bit hard) on the final stage, in much the
same manner he took the SF race last September. Horner's definitely on
a hot streak, but I suppose he got a dose of reality. Then again, what
could Horner do with a team like Postal behind him?

Interesting article in the latest VN featuring Chris. Check it out.