Cycling vs running up hill

Steve Gerdemann

The time trial on the L'Alpe d'Huez got me wondering. Is it possible
for a world-class runner to beat a cyclists time on a steep enough
slope? Obviously on level ground a bike is much faster but when the
road turns up the cyclist has the disadvantage of having to lift more
weight up the hill. So if the hill is steep enough can a runner beat a
cyclist and if so how steep does the hill have to be for the runner to
win.


Just wondering
Steve Gerdemann

MrBob

In article <6b851645.0404261044.735eaf46@posting.google.com>,
SJgerdemann@yahoo.com (Steve Gerdemann) wrote:

> The time trial on the L'Alpe d'Huez got me wondering. Is it possible
> for a world-class runner to beat a cyclists time on a steep enough
> slope? Obviously on level ground a bike is much faster but when the
> road turns up the cyclist has the disadvantage of having to lift more
> weight up the hill. So if the hill is steep enough can a runner beat a
> cyclist and if so how steep does the hill have to be for the runner to
> win.
>
>
> Just wondering
> Steve Gerdemann

Many years ago I read that above 15% leads to walking being more
efficient.

MrBob

______________________________________________________________________ _________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
<><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>

Bestest Handsander

"Steve Gerdemann" <SJgerdemann@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6b851645.0404261044.735eaf46@posting.google.com...
> The time trial on the L'Alpe d'Huez got me wondering. Is it possible
> for a world-class runner to beat a cyclists time on a steep enough
> slope? Obviously on level ground a bike is much faster but when the
> road turns up the cyclist has the disadvantage of having to lift more
> weight up the hill. So if the hill is steep enough can a runner beat a
> cyclist and if so how steep does the hill have to be for the runner to
> win.
>
>
> Just wondering
> Steve Gerdemann

I don't know about world-class, but I followed a runner about 2 miles up a
Canyon in Utah once... boy that was a ego killer! Couldn't even gain on the
dude. Only upside was he never looked behind until he turned around. I'm
glad he didn't. If he had seen me and then dropped me, I don't know if I
would have ever gotten on a bike again

Jaguarundi

Next time you get to wondering, Google.

http://tinyurl.com/34jml

J.

"Steve Gerdemann" <SJgerdemann@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6b851645.0404261044.735eaf46@posting.google.com...
> The time trial on the L'Alpe d'Huez got me wondering. Is it possible
> for a world-class runner to beat a cyclists time on a steep enough
> slope? Obviously on level ground a bike is much faster but when the
> road turns up the cyclist has the disadvantage of having to lift more
> weight up the hill. So if the hill is steep enough can a runner beat a
> cyclist and if so how steep does the hill have to be for the runner to
> win.
>
>
> Just wondering
> Steve Gerdemann

John Forrest Tomlinson

SJgerdemann@yahoo.com (Steve Gerdemann) wrote in message news:<6b851645.0404261044.735eaf46@posting.google.com>...
> Is it possible
> for a world-class runner to beat a
> cyclists time on a steep enough
> slope?

Yes.

JT

Ryan Cousineau

In article <mrbob-42B898.15282326042004@news1.uncensored-news.com>,
MrBob <mrbob@dontspamonme.bobmaher.dontspamonme.com.dontspamonme>
wrote:

> In article <6b851645.0404261044.735eaf46@posting.google.com>,
> SJgerdemann@yahoo.com (Steve Gerdemann) wrote:
>
> > The time trial on the L'Alpe d'Huez got me wondering. Is it possible
> > for a world-class runner to beat a cyclists time on a steep enough
> > slope? Obviously on level ground a bike is much faster but when the
> > road turns up the cyclist has the disadvantage of having to lift more
> > weight up the hill. So if the hill is steep enough can a runner beat a
> > cyclist and if so how steep does the hill have to be for the runner to
> > win.
> >
> >
> > Just wondering
> > Steve Gerdemann
>
> Many years ago I read that above 15% leads to walking being more
> efficient.

Sounds about right. A retired co-worker was an avid trail-runner and
one-time competitive cyclist (he regularly took his bicycle or jogged to
work until he retired, and he had a longer commute than me).

His analysis was that on the steepest trails (and 15% sounds about right
to me), the joggers could outrun the cyclists. At some point on certain
very steep and very technical descents, joggers can have an advantage
over most, but probably not all cyclists, if the descent is at least
theoretically navigable on a bike.

The issue there becomes whether or not the cyclist can descend without
dismounting. If they can, they probably win. If not, advantage: jogger.

Sadly, the famous Welsh Man v Horse v Bike race has had to temporarily
discontinue the v Bike part, apparently due to legal technicalities.

Look under June:

http://www.lafesta.co.uk/bizarre.html

The few published accounts I can find indicate that serious mountain
bikers have participated in this 22-mile race for a while (including
Jacquie Phelan), and the very best cyclists have beaten both man and
horse. It has been remarkably close, but reports I have indicate that no
solo runner has ever beaten the winning horse on this course, and there
is a #24,000 prize for any runner to do so.

Of course, You could construct a simple obstacle that would simply and
massively favor any one of rider, runner, or horse, thus demonstrating
that victory is very course dependent:

For horse to win, simply put one or more horse-jump (say, 5' or so?) in
the course. Horses seem to win on relatively short power courses where
the efficiency of a bike counts for little, and on obviously
horse-specific obstacles where bikes are at a disadvantage.

For the runner to win, put in one or more switchback climbs too steep
for a horse to easily navigate, or more simply, a 6' ladder to the top
of a cliff.

For the cyclist, a super-steep, non-technical descent will favor them
above all others, or a horse-unfriendly obstacle such as a ladder bridge
or even a cow crossing too wide to be jumped by a horse. In general, the
longer the course, the more the bicycle is favored. At the extreme
level, I don't think a horse and rider could outpace any stage of the
Tour de France, for example.

Horses for courses,
--
Ryan Cousineau, rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine/wiredcola/
President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

Arthg

The last year I lived in NorCal (1985) there was a runner vs. cyclist event
scheduled for one of the hills in San Francisco, I've long forgotten exactly
which one. I never heard about the results (pre internet!)

Isn't there an event on Mt. Washington, NH that pits wheelers against
runners? Or at least there used to be.

I know, google it.



"Steve Gerdemann" <SJgerdemann@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6b851645.0404261044.735eaf46@posting.google.com...
> The time trial on the L'Alpe d'Huez got me wondering. Is it possible
> for a world-class runner to beat a cyclists time on a steep enough
> slope? Obviously on level ground a bike is much faster but when the
> road turns up the cyclist has the disadvantage of having to lift more
> weight up the hill. So if the hill is steep enough can a runner beat a
> cyclist and if so how steep does the hill have to be for the runner to
> win.
>
>
> Just wondering
> Steve Gerdemann




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Ewoud Dronkert

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:23:45 -0500, Arthg wrote:
> The last year I lived in NorCal (1985) there was a runner vs. cyclist event

Not versus, but one before or after the Marmotte (cyclosportive around
Alpe d'Huez) there's a running race from Valloire up the Galibier...

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS

Bestest Handsander wrote:

> "Steve Gerdemann" <SJgerdemann@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:6b851645.0404261044.735eaf46@posting.google.com...
> > The time trial on the L'Alpe d'Huez got me wondering. Is it possible
> > for a world-class runner to beat a cyclists time on a steep enough
> > slope? Obviously on level ground a bike is much faster but when the
> > road turns up the cyclist has the disadvantage of having to lift more
> > weight up the hill. So if the hill is steep enough can a runner beat a
> > cyclist and if so how steep does the hill have to be for the runner to
> > win.
> >
> >
> > Just wondering
> > Steve Gerdemann
>
> I don't know about world-class, but I followed a runner about 2 miles up a
> Canyon in Utah once... boy that was a ego killer! Couldn't even gain on the
> dude. Only upside was he never looked behind until he turned around. I'm
> glad he didn't. If he had seen me and then dropped me, I don't know if I
> would have ever gotten on a bike again

Ever have a bunch of in-line skaters stay with you on rolling terrain?
Grrrrrr...


Steve


--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
http://www.dentaltwins.com

Ewoud Dronkert

> one before or after the Marmotte

one day

Andrew Martin

SJgerdemann@yahoo.com (Steve Gerdemann) wrote in message news:<6b851645.0404261044.735eaf46@posting.google.com>...
> The time trial on the L'Alpe d'Huez got me wondering. Is it possible
> for a world-class runner to beat a cyclists time on a steep enough
> slope? Obviously on level ground a bike is much faster but when the
> road turns up the cyclist has the disadvantage of having to lift more
> weight up the hill. So if the hill is steep enough can a runner beat a
> cyclist and if so how steep does the hill have to be for the runner to
> win.
>
>
> Just wondering
> Steve Gerdemann

37.23 degrees.

Andrew Martin

SJgerdemann@yahoo.com (Steve Gerdemann) wrote in message news:<6b851645.0404261044.735eaf46@posting.google.com>...
> The time trial on the L'Alpe d'Huez got me wondering. Is it possible
> for a world-class runner to beat a cyclists time on a steep enough
> slope? Obviously on level ground a bike is much faster but when the
> road turns up the cyclist has the disadvantage of having to lift more
> weight up the hill. So if the hill is steep enough can a runner beat a
> cyclist and if so how steep does the hill have to be for the runner to
> win.
>
>
> Just wondering
> Steve Gerdemann

Based on the calculations and some heft assumptions - the maximum
angle at which a bicycle can maintain forward motion - I think
somewhere in the low 30% range is more likely from personal
experience. When the runner takes over is when they can "scramble" by
using their arms for an extra point of contact.

The logical next question is - over what distance?

http://www.westernwheelers.org/main...tingClimbs.html

warren

In 1976 A buddy of mine did the Mt. Washington Hill Climb bike race and
most of the US Olympic Road Team was there too. He was a decent
x-country runner in college and somewhere near the top he got off his
bike and ran with it to the finsh and won the race.

-WG

John Forrest Tomlinson

For years the record in climbing the Mt. Washington Rd was held by
runners. The first person to break that record on a bike was, I
believe, John Allis in the 1970s.

JT