Post-hill recovery?

Terry Morse

Rick Warner wrote:

> Wow Terry. I do about 400K/yr., but if you have done almost 300K so
> far that puts you on track to do 900K or so for the year. Phew!

Yeah, I'm shooting for 1M ft. for the year. I got a slow start in
January, so I need to pick it up in the dry months.

> Bicycling had some stat that some twit claims to hold the record
> for most climbing in a year at something like 415K or something.
> Bunk if you ask me.

Somebody told me about that "record". What a joke. Several Western
Wheelers had more than that last year on group rides alone, myself
included. With one Wednesday ride and one Saturday ride weekly, one
can tally up about 500K.

> Anyway, I guess the hip is doing OK this year.

Not bad at all, thanks. The ski trips left it a bit tender for a
week or so, but nothing to write a song about.

> How many times up Page Mill/week?

Maybe only once or twice. I don't do Page Mill that often, since it
doesn't lead easily to another close-by hill. I like to do hill
combinations. Old La Honda, Kings, Alpine West is a nice set with
almost no flat miles in between.

> How many miles so far this year?

3,723.

> Tomorrow I am going over to Felton to escort a
> friend over to this side of the hill; will route to do 8000 ft or so
> and 90-100 mile so close to average.

Sounds nice, better than tomorrow's Primavera Century. Do you want
some company?
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Terry Morse

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

> Dang dang dang. I'll be very lucky if I hit 400,000 for the entire year.
> You da man!

I'm sure you could still whip my tail in a contest of speed. It's
like they always say: if you can't go fast, go far.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymors.com/

Mike Jacoubowsky

> > Dang dang dang. I'll be very lucky if I hit 400,000 for the entire
year.
> > You da man!
>
> I'm sure you could still whip my tail in a contest of speed. It's
> like they always say: if you can't go fast, go far.

Not so sure of that. I'm getting much better at longer distances, worse at
speed and absolute power. I used to worship the really steep sections, and
could often ride away from people a lot lighter. Not anymore! Last year
will have been the last time for me doing Sonora Pass on a 39/27.
Originally I'd assumed that meant I'd be on a triple, but with DuraAce 10
triple now scheduled for 2006, I'l probably go for an FSA compact with a
34/27. That ought to buy me a few years...

As usual, I'm scheduled for Sonora Pass on the last Sunday in June. Between
now and then I've got the Grizzly Peak century, but really nothing with
really nasty stuff. I'm thinking about doing Ebbetts as soon as it's open.
The clock is running; I'll be in France for the latter part of the TDF, at
during one four-day period, will possibly be climbing Alpe d'Huez each day
at the end of a ride (we'll be staying up at the top). I really enjoy that
climb, but we'll see what I think of it on days 3 & 4...

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Just zis Guy, you know?

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:34:42 -0400, Rick Onanian <spamsink@cox.net>
wrote in message <ga8380168l6j5ck052hkm59avqh4k5c6jt@4ax.com>:

>How do you recover after beating a tough hill?

By riding down the other side of it :-)

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Terry Morse

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

> As usual, I'm scheduled for Sonora Pass on the last Sunday in June. Between
> now and then I've got the Grizzly Peak century, but really nothing with
> really nasty stuff. I'm thinking about doing Ebbetts as soon as it's open.

Keep me in mind for the Sonora Ride, I'm pretty sure I can make it.
Ebbetts when it opens sounds like fun, too. I'm planning a Sierra
passes trip the weekend of June 12th, also. I want to see how many
passes I can cram into two days.

The Sequoia is Sunday, June 6th (when your shop is closed). The 200k
is going to be hilly. Preliminary estimates put it at 10,540 ft.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

David Kerber

In article <4081f690$1@news.ysu.edu>, "frkrygow"
<"frkrygow"@omitcc.ysu.edu> says...
> Rick Onanian wrote:
>
> > I stood up. I even upshifted.
> >
> > Then I huffed...
> >
> > And I puffed...
> >
> > And I KICKED THAT HILL'S ASS!
>
> Oh oh. You've done it. Now you're addicted.
>
> >
> > After cresting the hill, if there was any usable air in my lungs, I
> > would have screamed like Howard Dean. I scarcely had the ability to
> > stand. I stood there on somebody's lawn for 5 or 10 minutes while
> > the burn in my legs competed with the burn in my lungs.
> >
> > A flat/slightly downhill mile later, a short, shallow ascent kicked
> > my ass. I stood halfway up a 40 foot (10 meter) long, barely up
> > hill, unable to go. I tried to go, and almost fell in a deep, paved
> > drainage ditch. I had to stand there for at least 5 minutes, for a
> > hill that I could roll a bowling ball up.
> >
> > How do you recover after beating a tough hill?
>
> I _don't_ stand there at the top. I roll on, spinning lightly. I think
> it may help flush the lactic acid out of my muscles, or someting. But I
> don't want to cool down.
>
> And pacing is important. The only time I usually ride to absolute
> exhaustion is at the end of a time trial. And I don't do those any more.
>
> So I'd advise riding just a tad easier (say, one gear lower on that
> particular hill) and keep moving.

Not always possible, though. There are some hills I ride fairly
regularly where I need to stand on my 30x23 granny just keep moving. If
I put the 11-32 cassette back on, I could spin, but I've found that I
like the closer ratios for the majority of my riding more than I do
being able to spin a hill I only do once a week or less.

--
Dave Kerber
Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

loki

"Claire Petersky" <cpetersky@mouse-potato.com> wrote in message
news:6Clgc.160896$K91.413758@attbi_s02...
[...]
> Since it's springtime, I have been feeling obliged to take the tough hill
on
> the way home, rather than do the staircase of Eastgate Way, which is hard
> enough, but has little flat bits to catch your breath on, before the next
> climb.
>
> There's a long light at the top, and it's there that I usually recover. I
> shed whatever jacket I was wearing, slurp water, and wait for the green.

I don't have any tough hills around town. Gordon Street would be about the
worst snd it's not that bad. Though last summer in Bolton I met my match on
a quad killer. It didn't help that it was after ~90 km to get there. But it
was too much for me. Maybe this summer's challenge...

--
Ricky: 'What's an aptitude test?'
Lahey: 'A suitability test, Ricky'
Ricky: 'I'll wear a suit if I have to'

Mike Jacoubowsky

> Keep me in mind for the Sonora Ride, I'm pretty sure I can make it.
> Ebbetts when it opens sounds like fun, too. I'm planning a Sierra
> passes trip the weekend of June 12th, also. I want to see how many
> passes I can cram into two days.
>
> The Sequoia is Sunday, June 6th (when your shop is closed). The 200k
> is going to be hilly. Preliminary estimates put it at 10,540 ft.

The Sequoia is a no-brainer for me; held on a Sunday, in my backyard... and,
thankfully, a southern route again (instead of heading up to Devil's Slide).
We're even sponsoring an unscheduled water stop at a nasty spot on a hill;
if it works out, it should be something like a pickup bed full of ice & cold
drinks. Yeah, not the healthiest stuff, but for people in over their heads,
it tends to be more psychological than physical anyway, and sometimes an ice
cold coke is what somebody needs to make them believe they can make it.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Rick Warner

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<DoIgc.38442$OT6.11639@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>...

> drinks. Yeah, not the healthiest stuff, but for people in over their heads,
> it tends to be more psychological than physical anyway, and sometimes an ice
> cold coke is what somebody needs to make them believe they can make it.

Actually, for some people it is physiological; some folks do not eat enough
and/or the right things and end up depleting the energy reserves. The kick
of sugar gives them a boost. Funny how some folks just refuse to take
a gel shot, even when they need the shot, but will down a coke.

- rick

Rick Onanian

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 20:31:50 -0400, David Kerber
<ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote:
>Which hill was that? One I know?

In East Greenwich, Middle road, westbound just before it crosses
Route 4. Near the entrance to EGHS, 50 yards past where I stopped to
rest.

>Last night, on what was supposed to be a short recovery ride, I came
>across the URI Women's Rowing team running repeats up and back down
>Torrey Rd. That gave me the bad idea to do the same thing on my bike,

Were they rowing or running?

>Take a long flat to recover. It usually takes me 2 or 3 times as long
>to recover as the climb was.

If I could choose where the terrain would go, it'd always be
downhill! <G> The way I went was pretty flat, except that very
slight and short uphill that surprisingly killed me.

I'll note that I did get up the moderate hill to my house, a few
minutes later, nearly ok.
--
Rick Onanian

Rick Onanian

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 14:48:47 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
<outlook.bugs@microsoft.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:34:42 -0400, Rick Onanian <spamsink@cox.net>
>wrote in message <ga8380168l6j5ck052hkm59avqh4k5c6jt@4ax.com>:
>>How do you recover after beating a tough hill?
>
>By riding down the other side of it :-)

Hah! You've never been here. It's all uphill to wherever I'm going.

Also, if I'm driving in Providence (or any other such city), it's
generally full of one-way streets all going _away_ from my
destination. I missed half of my girlfriend's graduation because of
that effect...
--
Rick Onanian

SniffinVinyl

Theres lots of good advice here already.
Sneaking up on it pretty much sums up how I try to climb hills, I gear down
early, and my pals chuckle about that but I make it over the top. (There is
a hill which I first could not climb in its entirety, then a few weeks later
I eventually climbed it and never looked back after that, eventually I
climbed it twice in one ride, then 3x in one ride. The pals stopped
chuckling after that).

After a big hill I keep going, spin, get rid of the lactic acid, try to
recover, get ready for whats next. If its more uphill, I would definitely go
slow and spin, get some water.


Sniffinvinyl

-----------------
Remain sane - cycle your brains out . . .



"Rick Onanian" <spamsink@cox.net> wrote in message
news:ga8380168l6j5ck052hkm59avqh4k5c6jt@4ax.com...
> I stood up. I even upshifted.
>
> Then I huffed...
>
> And I puffed...
>
> And I KICKED THAT HILL'S ASS!
>
> After cresting the hill, if there was any usable air in my lungs, I
> would have screamed like Howard Dean. I scarcely had the ability to
> stand. I stood there on somebody's lawn for 5 or 10 minutes while
> the burn in my legs competed with the burn in my lungs.
>
> A flat/slightly downhill mile later, a short, shallow ascent kicked
> my ass. I stood halfway up a 40 foot (10 meter) long, barely up
> hill, unable to go. I tried to go, and almost fell in a deep, paved
> drainage ditch. I had to stand there for at least 5 minutes, for a
> hill that I could roll a bowling ball up.
>
> How do you recover after beating a tough hill?
> --
> Rick Onanian

Rick Onanian

Tomorrow I'll see if I can either measure (with gps) or find out on
a topo map (any links, anybody?) the hill in question.

You'll all laugh at me for sure...

A quick guess by looking at a gps map on 2d coordinates:
N 41°38.878', W071°28.473' to N 41°38.782', W071°29.158'
The distance may be longer than that. It's 02818, on Middle Road,
from (approximately) South Pierce Road to Cindy Ann Drive.

http://tinyurl.com/3xxac
or
http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat...d83&layer=DRG25

On the map, you can see the intersection with Pierce on the right,
and a major highway left-center. The hill is between those two
points. It's way too late at night and I'm way too tired to figure
out how to read the elevation from that...

Okay, so I partially lied when I said "Tomorrow" above.
--
Rick Onanian

Rick Onanian

I asked:
>>How do you recover after beating a tough hill?

Everybody responded helpfully (I hope this pseudo-digest format is
okay, seems contextually appropriate and more efficient than a
million little messages and the resulting branching and
sub-threading):

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 18:24:20 -0400, ChriszCorner@webtv.net (Chris
Zacho "The Wheelman") wrote:
>Well first, I don't ride like that. i beat a tough hill the same way the
>cooter beat the hare. I sneak up it, without the burn and recover what
>little I did use so I can beat the next hill. And the next...

How does one sneak up on a hill? I'd be willing to try.

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:25:39 -0700, Dan Daniel
<ddandan.remove@pacbell.net> wrote:
>Sounds like you are simply not in shape for quick recovery from such
>an effort. Go slow tomorrow.

Even with a trainer and recent good weather, I haven't had time to
keep the legs and lungs strong, so you're probably right. As far as
tomorrow (yesterday by now)...wonderful weather, and not a
snowball's chance in hell of me riding. Nor Monday (today)...up
early, work, school immediately after, and I can barely keep my eyes
open as I type this.

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:03:54 GMT, "S o r n i"
<sorni@bite-me.san.rr.com> wrote:
>Ambulance ride?
That would've been appropriate, methinks.

>Going in small circles for 45 minutes?
I didn't have 45 minutes to blow, and I couldn't even balance on the
bike from being so beat.

>Vomitting good for shaping abs?
I don't seem to vomit from exertion, or much of anything except
gross food.

>Will let you know if I ever do?
>Bill "sitter 'n a spinner" S.
I've always tried to sit & spin, but it never seems to work well.
Then again, I probably wouldn't have been quite as dead if I had.

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:05:29 GMT, Ningi
<ningi@EGGSANDSPAMblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>I recover by heading to the nearest pub for a beer.

I did go to a concert and had two beers there.

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 18:54:47 -0700, Terry Morse <tmorse@spamcop.net>
wrote:
>Well, the best thing to do is not blow your wad on the hill in the
>first place. If you have decided to "pop the cork" on a hill, pick a
>gear that lets you maintain a reasonable cadence. If you're forced
>to stand the whole climb, you're going to cook your legs, and legs
>take a lot longer to recover than lungs.
>
>But assuming you've succumbed to the moment, and your legs are now
>quivering masses of jello, the only thing you can do is slow down
>and spin until they are ready to go again. Recovery can take several
>minutes to a few days.

I think my legs weren't quite that cooked; there was scarcely any
pain a couple hours later, just while climbing stairs. My whole body
was cooked medium-well. It was all I could do to straddle the bike,
lean on the handlebar, and breathe.

On 18 Apr 2004 02:34:34 GMT, David Reuteler <reuteler@visi.com>
wrote:
>is that like waiting for tunnel vision to go away? my visual artifacts are
>gray not green. green might describe the vomit, tho.

You're lucky. I can't even _remember_ what my artifacts looked
like...

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:34:46 -0400, "frkrygow"
<"frkrygow"@omitcc.ysu.edu> wrote:
>Oh oh. You've done it. Now you're addicted.

Hah! Something like cigarette addiction? It was more painful than
the time I tried a cigarette! At least it was more rewarding too...

>I _don't_ stand there at the top. I roll on, spinning lightly. I think
>it may help flush the lactic acid out of my muscles, or someting. But I
>don't want to cool down.

That's what I thought I should do, but was unable to.

>And pacing is important. The only time I usually ride to absolute
>exhaustion is at the end of a time trial. And I don't do those any more.

Good point; it was a short ride, I was short on time; and, I had to
get home on schedule. I had previously put out a moderate to strong
effort for maybe 11 miles, first up some moderate rolling hills with
a good net elevation gain, then down gradual hills often as fast as
I could. I had rested up expecting that big hill.

>So I'd advise riding just a tad easier (say, one gear lower on that
>particular hill) and keep moving.

Easier is a good idea, but I was concerned about choosing the right
gear. IIRC, if your legs burn, you (seems counterintuitive to me)
should shift to a taller gear/lower cadence, and opposite if your
lungs burn. The first gear I chose to stand in was too easy; I
didn't feel like my stroke was sufficiently smooth, and my legs
burned quickly. When I shifted up, the leg burn discontinued it's
increase, so I figured I had it right.

Should I have used a lower gear, continued to stand, slow down, and
concentrate on a smooth stroke?

I just remembered...as I forcefully exhaled each breath, I must have
sounded like a steam locomotive accelerating from a dead stop.

>But hey - Congratulations!

Thanks.

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 20:43:03 -0700, Bernie
<bmcilvan@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>Beat it, but don't beat so hard on it.

That, combined with getting some miles in for exercise, will
certainly help.
--
Rick Onanian