Cry Baby Simeoni

musette

The bottom line remains: limerickman and others have not provided explanations as to why JU did not podium this year. Does that mean he was doping in prior years, and got afraid of the drug testing that Leblanc told everybody would be more vigorous this year and therefore did not dope and did not podium?

EXPLAIN WHY JU DID NOT PODIUM THIS YEAR (other than he was doping before and got scared of the increased testing, which would be the only reasonable interpretation consistent with the allegations against LA). If improvements in performance need explanations, that means any change in performance (including marked deterioration, like moving from never having finished less than second to finishing off the podium) ALSO DEMAND EXPLANATIONS.

Until that is explained, this whole thread regarding the need for explanations is futile!

Miguel_garcia83

havent you seen the tour of france? he didnt podium because he was bad in the pyrenees and although he recovered in the alps he had lost too much time with kloden and basso, another minor reason is that jan ullrich doesnt like rain and bad weather, and it was raining everyday for the first half of tour
well if leblanc said that , he lied because he hasnt been very vigorous with armstrong nor us postal team, trust me, if you support armstrong you wouldnt like talking about dopping because you would get very dissapointed at him...in this way
you can ask about any rider and dopping, but armstrong affaires are much worse than altogethers

limerickman

Miguel - as suggested to you before - there is no point in discussing this with her.
She knows that her question doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
We are talking about improvement - not deterioration in performances.

We have both explained that JU did not go well in the mountains to her.
Sure she believes that Armstrong is clean ! - she has no doubts, doesn't this tell you anything ?

limerickman

I have read the books.
The only insight I got from his books was a man attempting to justify himself
and his results.

I take exception to your remarks about me personally.
You do not know me - you have never met.You do not know with whom
I have worked - you have no knowledge of my cycling career either.
So to make a ludicrous remarks like you have, just shows you for what you are.

Graham Watson "Lance Armstrong Portrait of a Champion" published June 2004.
Miguel Indurain "when Lance came to the peloton first, we knew he was a good rider. I never thought he was capable of winning a TDF - never mind 5 T's DF.
He has won 5 T'sDF (at the time of writing) but he cannot take my title away from me - I was first to win 5 consecutive T'sDF"

Eddy Merckx "I never thought he could win a TDF..."

You and your hero can now sue both Indurain and Merckx for libel and/or slander depending on whether they lied to MSN ot Graham Watson.

Will we see you at the Etape next year ?
I doubt it.

Brunswick_kate

Limerick, on a slightly different, but tangentally related tack, I've been meaning to ask you...what the heck happened to T*Mobile as a team? I was thinking that JU looked like he spent a lot of time without solid team support or am I misinterpreting things?

__________________
Insanity has its price -- Please have exact change.

musette

It is illogical to take the position that significant suddden declines in performance do not need explanation, wheras significant improvement following an illness that changed body type and training methods requires explanation.

babylou

Your exact same point can also be made about Zubeldia and Mayo. It is obvious that the only way a Spaniard can compete is to dope more than the rest of the world. Take that Miguel.

limerickman

There seems to be utter confusion in Mobile.

Ullrich went to the TDF as team leader and he had a bad day in the stage to La Mongie.
Kloden did not wait for him on the final climb.
Kloden later said that he told the team car that he was going well and was ordered to try to stay with USPS further up the road.
When this information was put to TMO manager Walter Goodefroot he did not
agree or deny Klodens story, after the end of the stage.
Then Ullrich admitted on Eurosport that he had a cold before the stage and that he wasn't aware that Kloden had been given permission to go up the road by Goodefroot.
Ullrich said that in hindsight it was right for Kloden to try to stay with USPS.

Then Goodefroot have an interview with L'Equipe yesterday where he had a
go at Ullrich saying that Ullrich was unprofessional.
He said that Ullrich had chosen not to go for aerodynamic wind tunnel testing with his team.
He said that Ullrich wasn't prepared to copy LA's attitude to get everything
right for the TDF.
Goodefroot pummelled Ullrich.

I notice that Goodefroot wasn't at the presentation of the team award today.

Civil war is going on at TMO

Miguel_garcia83

ullrich 2nd in 2003, 4th in 2004, where in the sudden decline???
armstrong 1998 ermmmm, 1997 ermmmm, 1996!!! let me think...want me to keep going?

Brunswick_kate

Sounds like a sound reason why Ullrich didn't do as well as we all expected 3 weeks ago.

__________________
Insanity has its price -- Please have exact change.

limerickman

Very constructive.

No one ever questioned the authenticity of merckx, hinault or Indurain.
No one ever claimed that they used performance enhancing drugs.

The only Yellow Jersey that has been questioned for performance enhancing drugs is your fellow statesman, Lance Armstrong.
It's Mr.Armstrong that is being called a cheat.

musette

"Questioning" by people (including jealous people) is the key concept here. As everybody knows, Indurain, Merckx, etc. cycled prior to the Festina scandal in the TdF, the current Cofidis, etc. scandals and the current emphasis on anti-doping. The current emphasis on anti-doping explains why everybody is more focused on this issue. So it wouldn't be surprising that those who perform in a superior manner would be thought about in this context. But there is no proof; otherwise Leblanc and the French authorities would have gotten LA long ago. In fact, the scrutiny and heightened testing nowadays further confirm LA is clean.

There still has been indication of why management problems or team confusion EXPLAINS JU's poor performance in the Pyrenees. There was no confusion as to who was leader at T-Mobile before JU started to falter, for example. The confusion and questions about who was leader RESULTED largely from JU's declined performance, which still has NOT BEEN EXPLAINED.

Ted B

This is mostly 100% wrong.

Indurain and Merckx admitting they were surprised by LA's rise to fame hardly constitutes lies and slander. This is just anotther thinly disguised attempt to obfuscate the truth.

Furthermore, Merckx and Armstrong are quite good friends, and Merckx frequently invites LA to his home. Obviously, someone here is unaware of the extent of the friendship between the two.




Wrong again.

I was there, in France from the 10th until the 18th of this month, and I intend to be there next year as well. Better luck next time.



There are two types of people...

Those who possess the courage to achieve great things in the face of adversity.

Those of little character who whine and cry when others achieve.


The rest is self explanatory.

limerickman

You believe that lance Armstrong is 100% clean.

Then, for you, there is no need to discuss this subject.