Do you think lance is doping? yes or no

meehs

You're right I didn't actually count! But I'll take your word for it that you've posted more on the Hamilton threads than this one. I guess it just seems like (at least to me) there has been a lot more back and forth on Armstrong than anyone else with respect to the doping issue.

meehs

Well... If LeMond does know something more than what he has revealed, I think it would be in his best interest to let it be known. Making the allegations that he has made without offering evidence to back them up only makes him look bad in my opinion. If Greg Lemond does know something and does end-up revealing it, I for one would have renewed respect for him.

tamman2000

(Emphasis mine) Flyer, please don't take this as an attack, I am just trying to understand your thought process.

I would like to tell you a bit about myself and then ask you a question.

My brain is the part of me that is the most competative. I was on a state champion quiz bowl team in high school, I was also a regional finalist in competative public speaking (forensics). I got a perfect on my AP calculus exam (not just the highest score available, but I didn't miss any questions). I went to a top 10 engineering school, and majored in Applied Mechanics (regarded by many as the most difficult engineering discipline), and because that just wasn't enough, I minored in Computer Science as well. I was president of a student society, and an officer for another. I was in charge of transmission design and construction for our solar race car. There is a plaque in the mechanics building at my Alma Mater that lists the recipients of 3 different awards for every year sice the degree program started in the 60's, on this plaque there are 2 names that appear more than once, mine is one of them. My GPA at graduation was over 3.5. I then went on to work in the highly competative aerospace industry for 3 years doing computational fluid dynamics and turbine design and analysis. I didn't feel chalanged enough there, so now I am on the research staff at a different top 10 engineering school.

I say all of that not to brag, but to prove that I am obviosly highly competative, and capable.

Now, I was diagnosed with Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) when I was in the 3rd grade. This disorder makes it difficult to focus on any task for more than a few minutes, an obvious hinderance to the acedemically inclined. I was put on ritalin shortly after my diagnosis, and it helped me greatly in school.

Given what I have told you about me, Flyer. Do you think I currently use drugs to enhance my intelectual performance?

jhuskey

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Given what I have told you about me, Flyer. Do you think I currently use drugs to enhance my intelectual performance?[/QUOTE]

I myself would not make that judgement about you but would further state that it is obvious that there are many here that most probably don't considering their responses. Maybe medication would help.
Sorry couldn't resist.

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Whenever I can't get excited about riding I just fantasize about someone else's bike.

antoineg

Also note the differences in meaning between

Using drugs
Doping
Cheating

There is not a perfect correspondence between the three in cycling, let alone in your situation.

For example, you can "use drugs" (Sudafed) and get banned. I would not really consider that cheating.

You can dope with blood transfusions, which I would not really call using drugs.

You can cheat without doping or drug use, say by hanging on to the team car in an attempt to catch a rest.

I guess you can't dope without it also being cheating. Hm.

Using Ritalin is so far away from cheating that I don't really consider it the same ballpark.

tamman2000

Cheating or not. Do you think I use it to gain advantage?

Besides, this is really directed at Flyer, you don't seem to point to the fact that people had medical conditions which required them to use medications that can be used to gain advantage (in the Lance/Greg case it is cheating) at a point in their past as being indicative of continuing use, that is the point (which is so increadably rediculous that I wonder if Flyer really believes it) that I was trying to understand...

VeloFlash

There are drugs on the banned list that provide no ergogenic benefit.

They are there because they are a risk to health eg recreational type drugs.

There are drugs on the prohibited list that provide no ergogenic benefit but are used to mask the presence of PED's.

Not only are specific substances prohibited but also certain methods are prohibited but are all embraced as anti doping.

Any method that enhances oxygen transfer. Infusing your own stored blood (autologous) could not be classified as a substance as it is your own blood. But as it enhances oxygen transfer it is caught under the rules.

Gene doping and any form of manipulation (physical, chemical, pharmacological) that may or may not produce a performance enhancement benefit are prohibited.

So the use of the words "doping", "drugs" and "performance enhancing drugs" (PED's) for a violation of the rules may not be technically correct in every instance.

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VF

"Remember, even if you win the rat race, you are still a rat"

VeloFlash

English version of extracts of Walsh book "LA Confidential"

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...fd4ff0fd2f9987f

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VF

"Remember, even if you win the rat race, you are still a rat"

antoineg

Yes. I think that this is totally, 100%, no question, allowed and even encouraged as part of the human condition. I.e. eating the right foods, exercising, and education are all ways to "gain advantage" in the big game of Life. So is responsible use of drugs such as Ritalin, etc.

Hm. I'm not sure I totally understand either of you

I think that what Flyer was trying to say is that if you used to use EPO or NESP or whatever to recover from cancer, than it might be indicative of current and/or continued use.

I'm not sure anyone really knows precisely when Lance went off the chemo drugs that also are banned in cycling. The presumption is that he did it before he raced again.

The cynical poster would point out that when he started racing again post-cancer, there was no EPO test in existence, so the penalties for NOT going off the oxygen-boosting drugs would have been pretty low or non-existent, at least until 2000. The only indirect measure would have been hematocrit.

tamman2000

Yeah, I am pretty sure you don't understand me...

I am not asking if you would think less of me, or think I am a cheater if I take ritalin. I am asking if you think I have taken ritalin recently.

VeloFlash

If you were riding in the Tour you are obliged to declare before the start any medications you are taking for a medical condition. You would declare Ritalin for your ADD. You would not be held to be taking a prohibited substance if Ritalin contained some recreational type drug, PED or masking agent.

An incredible number of professional cyclists claim to be asthmatics, more than the incidence within a population, and make pre event declarations for taking asthmatic medications. These medications provide ergogenic benefits.

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VF

"Remember, even if you win the rat race, you are still a rat"