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29-07.-2004, 02:02 AM
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#31 | |
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Re: Armstrong/Seimoni Round 2...
Quote:
Birdman - with all due respect, that clown Ted B introduced a question of my honour, I am tackling him on this. |
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29-07.-2004, 02:04 AM
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#32 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2003
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Re: Armstrong/Seimoni Round 2...
Quote:
With all due respect how do you defend your honor by attacking Armstrong's?
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29-07.-2004, 02:07 AM
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#33 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: New Orleans
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Re: Armstrong/Seimoni Round 2...
Quote:
The breakup between LA and his wife was mutually amicable. There! You never proposed the likelyhood that LA was defending Ferrari because he truly believes his friend is innocent. Somehow, that escaped your list of possibilities....hmmmm. Now worries, I did if for you. Cheers!  |
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29-07.-2004, 02:15 AM
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#34 | |
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Community Team
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Re: Armstrong/Seimoni Round 2...
Quote:
not that I have to explain my direct reply to Ted B - but here goes anyway : Ted B stated that LA was being honourable in defending Ferrari. with the addendum quote "Naturally, I would not expect you to offer such an obvious probability since it does not fit into your agenda." I asked Ted B "How would you know that I am not an honourable person, eh ?" Ted B replied "I base my opinion on your past record of frequent, consistent Armstrong bashing in this part of the forum and others and the twisting of the obvious associated therewith. I may not be able to prove it, but this my belief based upon convincing circumstantial evidence what I derive from my research." So because I attack LA's record - and base my attack not on a bias but on statistical records and contemporaneous written accounts - Ted B concludes that I am dishonourable and that his heros honour is in tact ? Give me a break |
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29-07.-2004, 02:17 AM
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#35 | |
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Re: Armstrong/Seimoni Round 2...
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Whether it is mutually agreeable or not - he still reneged on his part of the deal. Very honourable. |
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29-07.-2004, 02:29 AM
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#36 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 246
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Re: Armstrong/Seimoni Round 2...
To ask a different question: what do you make of LA's "zip the lips" gesture?
Quote:
That, combined with his comment about how he was "protecting the peleton", make it seem like he was trying to shut Simeoni up. So we have two competing views: 1) LA is angry at Simeoni for lying and saying that Ferrari offered him drugs 2) LA is trying to intimidate Simeoni from telling what he knows. To me, the circumstances -- the public actions, the context, and the comments -- lead me to #2. It's the simplest explanation. |
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29-07.-2004, 02:30 AM
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#37 | |
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Re: Armstrong/Seimoni Round 2...
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Agreed. I don't agree with divorce but I don't live in their house nor do I know what the circumstances of the divorce were. What if his wife was unfaithful to him (this is merely hypothetical) would his "honor" still be in question? The point is his personal life and that of any other rider in the peloton is exactly that...personal and we have no business discussing it.
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29-07.-2004, 02:36 AM
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#38 | |
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Re: Armstrong/Seimoni Round 2...
Quote:
Zipping the lips is a gesture of shutting some one down. Simeoni went out on the attack so that he could have some bragging rights. Lance shut the attack down and took away the bragging rights, essentially shutting him up. It had nothing to do with the pending trial. You suggesting this is just as convoluted as all the people who say Ferrari said EPO is no more dangerous than Orange juice. He never said that. His words were used out of context just as you are taking the lip gesture out of context.
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29-07.-2004, 02:38 AM
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#39 | |
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Re: Armstrong/Seimoni Round 2...
Quote:
Nonsense. Your presentation of supposed 'evidence' is more than biased, simply because you routinely fail to present the flip side of the coin and are quick to dismiss any counter argument as an impossibility. You are quick to rule out any possibility that does not fit into your slanted picture. You frequently interpret things as you want to see them...and as you want others to see them as well. If you were truly interested in considering all sides, you would be a bit more objective in your presentation. The history of your posts shows otherwise. Carry on. |
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29-07.-2004, 02:40 AM
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#40 | ||||
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Re: Armstrong/Seimoni Round 2...
Quote:
Not where I come from. Quote:
How do you know this, especially in light of Lance's comment afterward that he was "protecting the peloton"? Quote:
sigh... Quote:
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29-07.-2004, 02:45 AM
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#41 | |
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Re: Armstrong/Seimoni Round 2...
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1992-1996 ! Carry on ! |
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29-07.-2004, 02:47 AM
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#42 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
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Re: Armstrong/Seimoni Round 2...
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That's just silly. People make mistakes and people get divorced. Unfortunately it happens all too often. We're human. I can't believe that everyone that has ever been divorced is a dishonorable person. Can you? Give it a rest. |
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29-07.-2004, 02:50 AM
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#43 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2003
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Re: Armstrong/Seimoni Round 2...
Quote:
Well it does where I come from and I happen to come from the same place Lance does. He was protecting the peloton for that stage. Do you really think Lance would be so stupid as to make a gesture like that to imtimidate Simeoni in front of hundreds of cameras and a billion viewers? I will be the first person to admit that what Lance did wasn't really cool. He should settle his personal disputes elsewhere but I can understand why he did it. Let's not read into it and make it into something it's not.
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29-07.-2004, 02:52 AM
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#44 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2003
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Re: Armstrong/Seimoni Round 2...
Quote:
The only 2 things that are evidence that LA does NOT dope are: 1) he has never tested positive for drugs 2) he and his team says he hasn't. Given a little bit of time, I can point out lots of riders who were in the same category who were retroactively found to be doping. The most recent high-profile cases, off the top of my head, are Millar, Virenque, and Rumsas. Now, the evidence that he MIGHT dope are: 1) well-known association with a guy under trial for providing drugs to cyclists 2) general acknowledgement by cycling authorities and observers that doping is still a large problem in the peleton 3) general and widespread knowledge of how to beat tests 4) observation that there are "designer drugs" like THG that are untestable, unless someone gets lucky and sends a syringe full of it to the authorities 5) Lack of penalties for doping, as witnessed by the enormous following that Virenque and Millar still have among cycling fans 6) Curious and frankly amazing comeback from serious, life-threatening cancer, in 18 months, to win the first of 6 TdF titles. 7) His pressure and intimidation of Simeoni, who is publicly accusing his personal doctor 8) comments made by Emma O'Reilly, former USPS soigneur 9) observations by French journalists of USPS staff driving 100 miles to dispose of medical waste -- found to contain actovegin, a drug that artificially thins the blood 10) lance testing positive for a corticosteroid in 1999, then getting a reputed back-dated prescription from a team doctor I've i've missed anything (on either side) let me know. |
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29-07.-2004, 03:15 AM
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#45 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 648
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Re: Armstrong/Seimoni Round 2...
Quote:
Gee, let's examine your laundry list: 1) circumstantial. 2) not relevant to Armstrong specifically. 3) not relevant to Armstrong specifically 4) not relevant to Armstrong specifically 5) not relevant to, well, anything. 6) irrelevant, circumstantial, and does not address the possibility that some of the side-effects of his illness may have actually had a beneficial effect in terms of his cycling performance. Look at Jan Ullrich, and tell me that he couldn't benefit from a condition that made weight-loss unavoidable. 7. What you call "pressure and indimidation" others view as scorn and humiliation. Not particularly admirable; not criminal, either. 8) Rebuttable, inconclusive, and uncorroborated. 9) "French journalists" -- LOL. Foxes guarding the henhouse. 10.) "reputed" means unproven. Even if proven, if that's going to be the basis for the factual case against Lance Armstrong, pardon me while I take a nap from sheer boredom. Your point #1 on the other side is overwhelmingly compelling in comparison to the threadbare "allegations" above, most of which amount to a slipshod indictment of the sport itself, not Lance Armstrong. Maybe he's doping; maybe not. In the meantime, however, the sheer volume of hysteria from so many people based on conjecture and hypothesis without facts is an indicator of how annoying it must be for someone who doesn't kiss a$$ to be the most successful TDF rider in history. So he's no saint; he's had marital difficulties; he holds a grudge; and he's a stinking American --- he's also a hyper-dedicated and deserving champion of the most revered trophy in the cycling world -- six times over. Deal with it. Have a nice day. |
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