Armstrong/Seimoni Round 2...

limerickman

Channel 4 News.

meehs

Dude, you've totally missed the point (as usual) I know that you can shoot all kinds of holes in those arguments just like another poster has already shot holes in yours. You're making my point exactly!!! If you're going to list a bunch of flimsy circumstantail, speculative, BS points of "evidence", then so am I. Do you get it now???? Holy crap!

limerickman

The question was - what was the connection of BMS to LA.
I said that BMS were commercial sponsors of LA.

I asked the question - could BMS also be providing bio-tech suppliments to LA
as an addendum to Antoineg's list of reasons about LA.

By coincidence, Channel 4 news (20 mins) after I posted that question, had an exclusive report stating that Southampton University have revealed a test
for HGH.
According to their report, BMS are the primary worldwide company for the development of HGH.

birdman23

Go to BMS website and do a search for Human Growth Hormone. 0 results.

__________________
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limerickman

Folks - are we flogging this whole subject of LA is he/isn't he to death at this point ?

I don't know about you guys, but my mail box is bloody packed with - ABC has just replied to subject 123 !

I'm up to 1,300 mailed replies here !!!

And the majority of those replies are in respect of LA - not that LA could (or should) give two hoots about what I think about him !!

No one is going to be persuaded to change sides - anyway.

antoineg

Holy crap!!!! All together now...

I hate to generalize, but LA supporters apparently think:

1) Fillipo Simeoni is liar
2) Greg Lemond is a liar
3) Emma O'Reilly is a liar
4) David Walsh is a liar
5) Willy Boet is a liar
6) Jesus Manzano is a liar
7) French journalists are liars
8) Some former USPS riders are liars
9) EPO is of no benefit to cyclists
10) Hardly anybody uses EPO anyway
11) There is no way to beat or circumvent a drug test
12) There are no undetectable drugs
13) No one trains as hard as Lance

Of the above, I might buy #13. All the rest are hard to swallow in total.

limerickman

I was quoting Channel 4.

While I think of it - have you checked every company that BMS trades as ?
Have you checked every company that BMS is a majority shareholder in ?
I am not being facetious - there is a good reason for my asking.

For example Johnson and Johnson trade here in Ireland under various company names : Vistakon, Centocor.
These companies are J&J companies but they do not trade under J&J.

meehs

Ummmm.... Actually, you said that LA had close relationships with "several bio-tech companies" (or something like that). Myself and another poster were the ones who identified BMS (only one company). No one asked what Armstrong's connection was that I know of. Again we were the ones saying that they were a commercial sponsor of LA and the company that provided the medications that were used to treat his cancer. His connection is well known here in the US.



Yeah, and I said that it would be absurd to think they'd provide illegal drugs to their own poster boy when if he were caught it would destroy their companie's credibility. I also said you were grasping at straws. I still believe both statements to be true.



Okay so there's a new test for HGH and BMS produces and sells HGH. They also produced three medications that were vital in saving Lance's life when he was dying of cancer. I just don't see any connection here at all. Sorry.

meehs

You're totally grasping at straws trying to make this yet another point of circumstantial "evidence" in my opinion. Yeah, BMS has LA as their poster boy. Maybe they manufacture HGH... But so what???

birdman23

Agreed. Why do you waste so much of your time replying with the same old tired arguments? Sorry I couldn't resist, I truly meant that as a joke. Truth be known most of my replies are related to this subject and just earlier today I posted in another thread how sick and tired I am of this debate. I also said I was going to ignore any post related to doping and here I am hacking it out. People are entitled to their opinions but the amount of speculation, heresay, conjecture, etc is getting so old. People can make a story out of anything if they truly want to. Some choose to believe the positive and some choose to believe the negative. We are all stubborn and entrenched in our ideas and no one will change that. The thing that pisses me off is that Lance has to have an asterisk by his name but to sling mud on any other prominant rider is uncouth and improper by many standards. Who says Eddy didn't dope, or Indurain, or Hinault. Hell, dope has been around forever. A Brit died on Ventoux in the sixties because of amphetamines (can't remember his name). But now I am trampling on hallowed ground and how dare I suggest such heresy! I am sure if we wanted to waste our time we could all go back through the annals of history and look into the shadows of the great ones and find stuff that could be misconstrued to show they weren't legitimate as well.

Food for thought.

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limerickman

I asked the question - speculatively (if that's a word).
I was aware that he was sponsored by them when I asked the question.
What I was trying to convey was - could these companies be supplying him
with product ?
If you're saying to me that BMS wouldn't do such a thing, I'll take that on board.

birdman23

I was just curious to find out the source. I don't believe the media just because they say so.

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meehs

You make an excellent point. I'm getting really tired of debating the issue! Sorry about your stuffed inbox, but for the record; none of those e-mails are from me! If I were you I think I'd consider just highlighting them all and pressing the delete button!

limerickman

thank God !
Tom Simpson was the rider who died.

This discussion could go on for ever - and I am tired of rehashing the same
lines of argument because with respect, I have zero chance of changing your minds anyway !