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power training and daily fitness..

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Old 03-08.-2004, 06:38 AM   #16
lyot
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Belgium
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Default Re: power training and daily fitness..

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerco
A couple of things though - where's the evidence that by watching HR you will be able to tell if you are building fatigue instead of fitness? In fact, in Ric's example (which is how my HR behaves too), going easier with a higher HR would be the exactly wrong thing to do to build fitness.

Do you have a powermeter by the way? If you don't you may not be aware that pacing workouts via the meter is somewhat difficult to do on the road and you usually don't know exactly how a session/interval went until after you're done with it - sometimes on the road still when you've finished an interval if your meter can show it (essential in my opinion).

Anyway, if you're doing a sub-threshold interval, yes, you would have to rely strictly on PE to bag a workout, but, if it's sub threshold, I'd say in most circumstances it would be unstructured and you'd automatically compensate by riding easier.

As to structured intervals, you'll know as soon as your done with the first or second interval. If you can't hit the targets you've hit in prior workouts and/or your PE is too high compared to similar workouts in the past, you bag it or change plans. Hitting or missing a target power is a pretty quantiative criteria in my opinion.



well, about HR and Fitness. It's is my personal, and I want to stress personal, experience that when I'm not recovered from an intensive effort my heart rate will be up for about 7-8 beats, compared to normal days...It's not evidence that i'm building fatigue, but I interpret it as a sign that I'm tired and due to an elevatad heartrate (well, 7-8 beats), I should be carefull...( please note that I'm talking about the range of recovery-endurance rides.. When I've done an intensive effort, I never do an intensive ride the day after, but I can imagine that my heart rate would be be supressed/lower then normal when going into the upper ranges.)

I personally don't have a power meter, but I'm in the process of deciding about buying one..If got to be sure it's worth the investement, and therefore, I need more knowledge..


I'm sorry, but I don't think i completely follow on the difference between structured vs. unstructured interval sessions ? What exactly is perceived exortion ? I couldn't find it in the dictionnary ? I've just found a -at first sight- interesting wepage (http://www.midweekclub.com/powerFAQ.htm) .Gonna read some more and will come back later..
greetings
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Old 05-08.-2004, 04:47 AM   #17
jimh2
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Default Re: power training and daily fitness..

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyot
well, not really.. If i'm doing endurance training, my heart rate will be relatively lower then when I'm having a good day.. I will, for instance, touch 130 easier then when I'm well rested (same speed, wind circumstances,...).. I understand that my maximum heart rate will be lower (like you seem to suggest) but I'm not talking about all out efforts, yet more about endurance training.





But what if the target power output is low (endurance training) . And you are able to push the output needed (without having to puke of course, since you're not pushing high wattages) ...In that case, you might be doing too much of a workload for that day ..That's my problem. How does power training take into account daily fitness? When I have a bad day, my heart rate immediately shows it to me, so I know just how hard I can ride (f.i 120 bpm). But that doesn't go for power training, right ?

greetings and thanks for the input.




Well, I have seen a lot of discussion here on power training vs. HR monitor. I can provide some anecdotal evidence, not scientific. I have used HR training for 20 + years. I recently converted over to a power tap unit. I always noticed that the HR stays fairly consistent , in other words it does not fluctuate very much through the entire workout (depending on what you are trying) vs. the power meter. And I used to think that was great until I started doing time trials workouts again, for training and racing. I am sure the fluctuating screen on the power unit is quite disturbing to some.
I found out that solely using my HR monitor during those workouts my HR would stay high, near lactate threshold if that was the workout. However, when I finally had the power unit installed, I noticed that when the wind was at my back or I had a downhill roller my power would drop off. In order to do well in a TT you must have the “pedal to the metal” in order to shave off those precious seconds. When I followed only my HR and speed I slacked off because my HR was still high and my speed seemed pretty good., but I was not putting out the additional power I could have at the time. I did a TT recently where I pushed through the downhill rollers harder than if I had only my HR monitor. My time dropped a full minute. And I did not “blow up” and hit the wall.
When I now do my workouts I have a power target in mind, not HR as I had done previously. I will push through the downhill and power down on the uphill. Knowing the power reading is changing requires you to focus on shifting when necessary either up or down to maintain your power range workout. I don’t even watch the HR anymore. If I feel tired I lower my power expectations or stop the workout if need be. Yes this is all anecdotal, but the power tap works great. HR is okay for those easy days and that’s when I use it. As always group rides are okay with the power tap but I find that the individual workouts are far better. In group workouts, as always you are subject to someone else’s training plan.
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Old 05-08.-2004, 05:22 AM   #18
beerco
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Default Re: power training and daily fitness..

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimh2
I don’t even watch the HR anymore. .


You catch on fast!
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