**** Breaking News: Hamilton Tested Positive? ***

gntlmn

No point on the 2002 number, just that we're talking about high tech, and we need to watch the dates.

Kneejerk? Just my way of saying that testing needs to be prospective rather than merely a response. It has to look forward rather than merely what's currently available for doping. I'm agreeing with the article.

Yeah, I'd like to see more articles that you find pertinent.

gntlmn

I agree with the harsh penalty approach. I would like clarification on the "expensive" aspect. It seems that the article and people posting make comments about expense. Well, I imagine it probably is very expensive. I would rather hear the numbers. I want to know exactly how much it costs to do the full testing for all doping, including developing new testing methods in the face of rapid changes in doping. A dollar range would be highly informative.

Perro Loco

I remember early on hearing about this being related to a surgery, but haven't heard a word since.
I have more questions than answers are available.

1st- what % of athletes at the olympics and vuelta where tested for transfusions? high finishers only? The test is probably too expensive to run on everybody. Was their a reason to test him other than winning- see next.
2nd- Did Tyler have an elevated Hct, during testing <50% but high 40s?
3rd- why do this if you know testing is in place. 1st the risk of transfusion is not zero- low when done in a clinical setting with modern blood banking techniques, but not zero. If done outside of a clinical setting even with relatives their is an increased risk.
I am very curious how this will all play out. Unfortunately, I see no good outcome.

gntlmn

Hamilton is suspended. Phonak has only about an hour ago notified that he is suspended. Landis? I don't know.

I think Tyler was pretty dumb to use someone else's blood for doping when he could have used his own without detection, not that I condone such activity. I wonder, if it turns out to be true that he doped intentionally, whether he had the help of a doctor. I recall not long ago reading about a doctor finally coming forth to reveal that he had been approached by Tyler Hamilton for help with doping when he was with Motorola, and the doctor didn't give him an answer. Tyler later told the doctor he wouldn't be needing his services. I was thinking at the time that the doctor may have been lying. Now I am beginning to wonder whether the story was true about Tyler then. Perhaps more about this will come out soon.

gntlmn

I don't either at this point. I wonder if the testing was only done right after he won those two events and not any of the other days he raced. I think the TT he won was stage 8 in the Vuelta. What about the other 7 stages? Did his blood appear normal then? Was it even tested then? I too would like to know the answers.

Virenque

Millar is not the only one from cofidis who was cought! Gaumont was first, then Millar and he said that Lelli introduced him doping and Lelli was cought too! So there are free riders from one team! And I think they are not alone..

Too many riders were caught last years (Rumsas, Frigo, Simoni, Millar, Gaumont, Lelli, Bruylandts, Camenzind, Simeoni, Manzano, Brandt...)! I just wrote the riders, which I remembered in few mins! There are plenty more of them!

Thats one of the reasons why I beleive most of them are doping!

I recommende to all of you that you read what Jesus Manzano said about doping! You dont need to believe all that, but story realy makes you think about modern sport! Jesus Manzano story

Perro Loco

I can't give you any specifics, but a routine blood count with reticulocyte count costs ~ $50 the test for epo (direct epo) costs about $450 a sample to run.
Tests for anabolic steroids I don't know. The flow cytometric test for transfusions- an educated guess would be $200 plus. But I could be wrong- I will try and get a better estimate on that and get back. Running a research lab requires a lot of money, and despite the website listed above I don't think catching "dopers" is a high priority (and maybe shouldn't be- given AIDS, TB, Cancer etc.) with most pharmecuetical companies, goverment funding agencies or private foundations.

gntlmn

I don't know about the politics over there at Phonak, but you ought to look at the recent Vuelta developments. Perez is really pouring it on. I think he is going to win this race. I will do some more research on Perez, but I would guess that he's the one to watch for leader of Phonak. After all, he's already there for one, and secondly, Landis is not anywhere near him now in the GC. Santiago Perez is second with virtually no one from Phonak able to keep up with him to help him, and I don't see Landis' name now anywhere in the top 40. So I'm not even sure if he finished the stage today. I know he was in it midway. Anyway, Santi Perez is riding phenomenally well in the Vuelta, but Landis was a big factor in the TdF. It will be interesting to see who gets team leader, if Tyler is not vindicated.

antoineg

As far as I can tell, Hamilton himself has never said that he had any surgeries. In fact, he specifically denied getting anyone else's blood from any source.

From what I remember (but now cannot find), it was a team representative who alluded to an offseason surgery, but since that initial news report yesterday -- nada, zip, zilch about any surgery.

Virenque

Eh...Valjavec will be the leader! Thats for sure

antoineg

I just went through the journal entries on Tyler Hamilton's own site (including archives) and can not find a single reference to any surgery at any time during the last couple years, even after his crashes in the Giro and the Tour. It appears that he rested and relaxed, rather than had surgery, to recover from those crashes.

gntlmn

Why? Is he from your hometown? He's in 24th place now on GC in the Vuelta, 38 min down from Santi Perez. But actually, I don't know anything about Valjavec except that he rides for Phonak.

gntlmn

Hmmm. Now you're getting me very interested in seeing the results of Sample B.

meehs

I admit that I haven't been following the Vuelta much at all because there is really no coverage (other than the internet) available to me. I heard that Landis was doing very well early on (which didn't surprise me after his performance late in the TdF) and that he recently had been falling back. I was unaware of the success of Perez. I agree that it'll be interesting to see what Phonak does with Hamilton out, if he's not vindicated as you said (which is quite unlikely in my opinion).