How many of you carry a gun as part of your cycling equipment?

lokstah

And about a billion humans died old, of natural causes.

That's enough. This thread doesn't belong in this forum.

Buddy2004

Joe,

Are you smoking something? You call America 'free'?.......every five minutes the terror alert is raised and mass destruction seems imminent......either that, or Bush is stoking the fires to keep everyone shit-scared so that he can get away with stealing personal freedom bit by bit.

Mind you, I would start believing those terror alerts if I were you - the war in Iraq must have created a 1,000 Bin Laden's by now and Bush thinks that the world is a safer place because of his mis-guided actions?

Joe West

I'm not particularly fond of Bush... I think he is an idiot. However, Kerry is MUCH worse than Bush so unfortuantely, I'm stuck between dumb and dumber running for president.

America is not perfectly free, and it never will be as long as the big-government loving liberals continue to procreate.

However... America is absolute UTOPIA compared to any other country on the face of the earth.

And by the way... I also agree with you that Bush is trying to steal our freedoms, but he will no doubt try to do so much more slowly than Kerry.

Kind Regards,

Joe

menglish6

A few random other thoughts I had while reading this thread:
- I live in Portland, I have never had an experience where I felt that my life was threatened, biking or otherwise. I have lived in Texas where my place of work had a sign that explicitly asked people not to bring firearms into the building. I never felt unsafe when I was living in Texas. It is difficult for me to imagine a situation where I would want to have a gun. I can see using it to head off a possible altercation with someone (or group) who was threatening you with some kind of non-projectile weapon I guess. But the examples given where someone is already doing some threatening with a gun...pulling a gun then strikes me as a good way to make sure that _someone_ gets shot.

Does anyone have any experiences where they've decided to pull out their gun and use it for it's preventative power, or even fired it? I'm curious to understand that type of situtation.


- Is there really any danger from wild animals that requires a gun? Large cats in North America wouldn't attack any human but a child would they? And a bear? Is a hand-gun going to help you fend off a bear? I've read that only grizzlies are ever that interested in hurting people, and you can shoot them a bunch of times and they'll most certainly get to you before it becomes a hinderance to them.

- Guns ensuring our freedom from our Gov't. If we ever really did get into a situation where we were fighting our own military it would most certainly have to take place as geurrilla action (everyone can see the pointlessness of claiming that having some hand-guns and rifles would allow us to stand toe to toe with the military), which would probably require more in the way of assault rifles, explosives and rpg type weapons to be effective. My point being that having guns is somewhat of an aid if this situation arises, but it most certainly doesn't gaurantee us anything.




Have you been paying attention much lately? I'm pretty sure having control of the white house and both houses of congress turns people into being for "big government", whatever your party.



I would say "most" instead of "any", but I generally agree. I think that this is something people forget when they point out the faults of the US. I also think that pointing out faults is the first step in trying to solve them, and trying to make our country even better is a good thing.

__________________
"There aren't evil guys and innocent guys. It's just... It's just... It's just a bunch of guys." -- Steve Arlo

malcomm

I get by with a jersey that says "I'm not an American"
No ones shot at me yet.

bentupright

Have I owned firearms? Yes, in the past. With the epilepsy problem, however, I have sold them all, and I have never carried on bike.

Do I agree with the Second Amendment? Sure, maybe conditionally, but I can apreciate the foundational premise that the American 'founders' based this right upon. However, it seemed to be agreed upon during a time when neighbors knew each other well, and saw things eye-to-eye, even if they ocassionally disagreed. NOW, with the growth of inner-city violence, which is due in part to APATHY, I'm not so sure. I mean, maybe I don't fully understand what are the causes of the inner city decline (other than, maybe, Right wingers sending the jobs overseas, or the social worker left wingers becoming financially strapped and/or apathetic), but I DO know that NOTHING comes from NOTHING.

The right wingers would respond with the market: They allow investors to pool their money together into a stock market group, with the interest of attempting to 'dislocate' the poor by bribing special interests on the LOCAL political level, revamping the LOCAL property assessment process, getting LAW on their side, and 'clean house', so to speak(see the movie, Robocop2)

The left would make upper income individuals pay taxes, and use government to form a social net of education, health care access, etc., all run by government.

The sad fact is, NEITHER the upper income right, NOR the lower income left, give a hoot! If ANYTHING, those smart enough to 'play' the real estate game (oftimes the progressing middle class) are given incentives to invest in slums, put in a little second-grade new wall paper, put up with the arguments, fights, gunshots, evictions (where they have the backing of LAW enforcement), and make a moderate profit from it, only to sell and move up the real estate ladder (to better housing, 'suburbs', etc.). There is inherently NO incentive to truly IMPROVE the situation, possibly because it is IMpossible. So SOMEONE is allowed to profit from doom, NO ONE is encouraged to fight it, EITHER WAY (the 'right' way, OR the 'left' way). In effect, we get stuck in the quagmire. One choice depends on 'voluntary' altruism, the other on 'voluntary' selfishness. Either way, the 'volunteers' go in long enough to buy their first house of their own, they see the futility in their efforts to 'reform', so once that they 'got theirs', they 'give up'! A far cry from the much touted 'Christian' approach, huh?

And, while I'm all for the 2nd Amendment, I do NOT support the NRA. They, JUST like the NEA (I being a teacher), JUST like the FOP (fraternal order of police: The ones that give the 'get out of a ticket free' bumper stickers, if you support them with a 'civilian donation'), JUST like the ARRL (Amateur Radio: 'Oh my God, the BPL is gonna make radio vanish, come join our fight to protect YOUR radio!'), they ALL create a crisis to bump up prices, and expect you to 'strike hands in pledge' or risk the loss of 'protection'. Not only does America take 'bribes', but they are legitimated through systems of association and/or donation! Frankly, if I have to pay homage, then it ain't worth me keeping. In effect, these 'associations' take AWAY any inherent, 'God given' foundational 'rights', and cheapen them ALL down to rights payed for, NOT by the lives of any 'founders', but by our greenbacks!

With this premise, the 'trust' is placed from 'associations' to individuals, and therefore, I could only HOPE that those who choose to carry would be wise and prudent enough to use them as a LAST resort: I can't and don't like, nor TRUST, these so-called 'associations', ergo, I MUST leave it in the hands of each individual involved, as a final and ONLY resort OPEN to me.
Does that expound my Left-Leaning Libertarian point of view well? (Kerry!!!!)

With that said, I'll gladly support your right (as it remains for now) to carry arms (even though, for health reasons, I cannot do so safely, even if I wanted to myself), but don't ask me to do it through organizational 'associations' that profit from hyped-up claims of 'doom'!

Julian Radowsky

I do not carry my firearm when I ride, actually, I do not carry it at all (I should actually get rid of it).

If you really are honest with yourself, then it becomes quite obvious that the desire to carry a firearm is really about 'power' and not about self defence.

If you were ever in a situation where an armed attacker held a gun to you, you would be an absolute idiot to think that you can draw your weapon, aim, and hit to kill your attacker before they could kill you by simply pulling the trigger of a weapon that was ALREADY POINTED AT YOU.

If the attacker has a knife and is running towards you, and your weapon is not already drawn and aimed at the same time that the attacker starts his run, then you are as good as dead if you think you can draw, aim and fire a killing shot before the attacker has covered the distance between you and him and rammed his blade into you.

The plain and simple truth is that learning good conflict resolution skills, and techinques to disarm and disable an attacker in close quarters (Krav Maga) is more likely to save your life (and those of others) than thinking that carrying a firearm will.

On a ligher note:
Subject: Guns vs Doctors

Doctors:
A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000.
B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000.
C) Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171.

Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept of Health Human Services and is a
conservative number.


Now think about this:

Guns:
A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000.
Yes, that is 80 million.
B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is
1,500.
C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is 0.0000188.

Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous
than gun owners. Remember, "Guns don't kill people, doctors do."

FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE
DOCTOR.

Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban
doctors before this gets completely out of hand!!!!!
Out of concern for the public at large, I have withheld the
statistics on lawyers for fear the shock would cause people to
panic and seek medical attention.

__________________
If you look after your body, it might last you a lifetime.

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough." - Mario Andretti

A bus station is where a bus stops.
A train station is where a train stops.
On my desk, I have a work station....
what more can I say.......

jitteringjr

Especially if you have to dig the weapon out of your bike wedge first.


Good overall post Julian

__________________
04 Bianchi XL Carbon w/ Centaur
The Late 03 Jamis Comet. May she rest in peace.

SpearSlinger1

The thing that gets me is the whole attitude of liberals and the left leaning. I've never heard of anybody that made the choice to carry tell anybody else they have to carry. Why is it that the left feels justified in choosing to not carry and then trying to force this choice on those that choose to carry legally? This typically comes from those whose knowledge of firearms stops after getting past what they learned from Holly Wood and what the left wing politicos have told them.

The Cheetah

Where you riding? The bike paths?I ride the back roads of Tx. I have had some close calls to where I wish I have had some sort of back up. Gun, knife, heck, pepper spray. Oh and... I sprint over armadillos.

__________________
WEARYELLOW :: LIVESTRONG

Joe West

Hi Julian,

Honestly, if you carry a weapon because of some "power" it gives you; you should not carry.

I do carry... and it isn't because of power, but rather, to defend myself against the potential predators our society seems to breed.

To address your other points:

If someone has a gun actually pointed at you, you are right... you likely can't outdraw them. However... let's carry it one step further... let's say they actually shoot you (and do not kill you) what are you going to do?
Well... if you are carrying... you will likely give it your best shot and try to pump as many rounds as possible into the bad guy (hereafter known as BG).
If you aren't carrying... what are you going to do? Negotiate? Ya... what you are going to do is die if the attacker wants you to die and live if the attacker wants you to live.
Do you REALLY want your life in the hands of some BG?
I don't.
You seem to be arguing for not carrying when in fact, the example you give clearly indicates that you have MORE CHOICES if you are carrying. Perhaps you can come up with a better example why it is good not to have the alternative of a weapon to fight back with if it is necessary.

Now... to put to bed your second example; a BG with a knife.

I can tell you right now that I can draw and place 6 shots in a 3" circle in less than 3 seconds (and MANY people can do it MUCH QUICKER THAN I CAN) from 25" away.

Your BG with the knife would be deader than a doornail... immediately, and with no second thoughts.

You do NOT (and I'll repeat this for effect).. You do NOT bring a knife to a gunfight.

Anyone who carries should train. Anyone who trains WILL be able to stop a knife attack, depending on distances, they may get cut... but the attacker will be stopped.

JW

The Cheetah

Dang, that's pretty quick. My dad has a "fanny pack" that you pull a "string" and 'wham' you are ready. He's good... but sounds like you are fast and really accurate.

__________________
WEARYELLOW :: LIVESTRONG

Joe West

By the way... you bring up pepper spray... I ALWAYS carry peper spray (even when I am not carrying a gun and ESPECIALLY when I am carrying a gun).

If I ever have to deal with a problem character... I want to use pepper spray first if I can... NEVER do I want to actually shoot someone without first trying to handle the situation with non-lethal techniques.

Maybe I should have called this thread:

How many of you carry Pepper Spray as part of your cycling equipment

Thanks for bringing it up.

JW

boudreaux

Well, I suppose that senario assumes Mr. BG only has a single shot or is a dum BG and only knows how to pull the trigger once,and that you aren't severely handicapped by the first hit...Eh? ... FWIW, there are alot of things I do and don't do, or believe in or don't believe in,but whatever the case I don't go around wearing it all on my sleeve or tattooed on my foreheaad.