Cycling and bicycle racing discussion forums.   View New Forum Topics
Today's Forum Topics

Set as homepage


Go Back   Cycling Forums > Regional Cycling Forums > Australia and New Zealand
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Welcome to CyclingForums.com

You are currently viewing our website as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions. You will have to register before you can post to this thread.

By joining our free online community you will have access to post new topics, communicate privately with other cyclingforums.com members (PM), respond to polls, upload photos and access other special features like product reviews and classifieds.


Kennedy CycleFit

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-02.-2005, 01:31 PM   #16
Bikesoiler
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 391
Default Re: Kennedy CycleFit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleve
disclaimer, I am a cycling coach, take what I say with that in mind.

I send my riders who want fitting to see John Beasley at Beasley Cycles.
John's an expert, is a VIS coach, and will treat you with respect and courtesy, as well as charge a reasonable fee.

Some of my riders have seen Kennedy, and some swear by him, others swear at him. YMMV. Debates as to the virtues of the position expounded by Kennedy and Hogg are left to the interested reader


Bleve
Can you expand on the "position expounded by Kennedy and Hogg" as compared to anyone else? Yourself etc?
Bikesoiler is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-02.-2005, 01:57 PM   #17
Bleve
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 30
Default Re: Kennedy CycleFit

It's a debate that I'd prefer not to get involved in, suffice to say that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and that nothing should ever be taken out of context.

Have a read through the lively debate in Bicycling Australia's letters to the editor over the last few years if you want to get a number of different points of view on the position that Kennedy and Hogg suggest.
Bleve is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-02.-2005, 04:28 PM   #18
Bikesoiler
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 391
Default Re: Kennedy CycleFit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleve
It's a debate that I'd prefer not to get involved in, suffice to say that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and that nothing should ever be taken out of context.

Have a read through the lively debate in Bicycling Australia's letters to the editor over the last few years if you want to get a number of different points of view on the position that Kennedy and Hogg suggest.


I wasn't looking for a debate. I'm interested for my own sake. I have spoken to Kennedy many years back but can't now remember what his main points were & not about to spead $$ getting measured etc to be told my bike is all wrong. It dosent feel too bad a fit.
Bikesoiler is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-02.-2005, 04:40 PM   #19
Bleve
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 30
Default Re: Kennedy CycleFit

Unfortunatly, discussions of bike position always end up in rigourous 'debate', as there's no one true way or one right fit. Everyone's different, and what works for me won't work for you etc. Hogg makes some interesting claims in his articles in BA that prompt some debate amongst bike fitting experts, of a sufficient volume to warrant some caution when evaluating their school of thought. Kennedy & Hogg have, as I understand it, the same philosophy, and are partners of a sort, so what applies to one, applies roughly equally to the other.

I don't do bike fitting, I send my riders off to see John as I mentioned above, it's not something I want to get involved in, it's hard enough trying to get my riders to have recovery rides, let alone get bogged down in bike fit controversy. Kennedy's a competitor of mine in a way (we both coach racing and recreational cyclists in Melbourne as a business) so my comments must be taken with that in mind.

My appologies if that's not what you're after. The bottom line is that as long as you're comfortable and not getting any injuries, your position is probably just fine.
Bleve is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-02.-2005, 04:59 PM   #20
Bikesoiler
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 391
Default Re: Kennedy CycleFit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleve
Unfortunatly, discussions of bike position always end up in rigourous 'debate', as there's no one true way or one right fit. Everyone's different, and what works for me won't work for you etc.

I understand this totally.
The other part, for me, is different riding type ie road & MTB, then add singlespeed MTB to that! Does riding 4 different bikes, in different ways make setting your position just a little harder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleve
Hogg makes some interesting claims in his articles in BA that prompt some debate amongst bike fitting experts, of a sufficient volume to warrant some caution when evaluating their school of thought. Kennedy & Hogg have, as I understand it, the same philosophy, and are partners of a sort, so what applies to one, applies roughly equally to the other.

I haven't read any of this debate & don't really feel I want to. I've got chains to clean & tubes to patch in any spare time not spent riding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleve
I don't do bike fitting, I send my riders off to see John as I mentioned above, it's not something I want to get involved in, it's hard enough trying to get my riders to have recovery rides, let alone get bogged down in bike fit controversy. Kennedy's a competitor of mine in a way (we both coach racing and recreational cyclists in Melbourne as a business) so my comments must be taken with that in mind.

My appologies if that's not what you're after. The bottom line is that as long as you're comfortable and not getting any injuries, your position is probably just fine.


Cool, thanks for replying.
Bikesoiler is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-02.-2005, 09:09 PM   #21
531Aussie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 5,073
Default Re: Kennedy CycleFit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleve
Kennedy's a competitor of mine in a way (we both coach racing and recreational cyclists in Melbourne as a business) so my comments must be taken with that in mind.
.


Why don't you give your business a plug?

Where abouts are ya?
531Aussie is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 24-02.-2005, 04:43 PM   #22
Bleve
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 30
Default Re: Kennedy CycleFit

Quote:
Originally Posted by 531Aussie
Why don't you give your business a plug?

Where abouts are ya?

I don't think it's an appropriate use of this sort of forum (old timer alert). I remember the good old days before Canter & Siegel and when email wasn't 95% junkmail, and posting ads to USENET got your account taken away

That said, since you asked it's therefore ok to reply; I'm in Melbourne, and my (very small) coaching business is aboc Cycle Coaching, www.aboc.com.au
Bleve is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 28-03.-2005, 06:17 PM   #23
Ian Wright
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 15
Cool Re: Kennedy CycleFit

From what I've heard it's $180 plus the manditory parts (usually $70) to complete the fit, which equals $250.

Cheers,
Ian
Ian Wright is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-05.-2005, 08:35 PM   #24
Cipo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 10
Default Re: Kennedy CycleFit

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrous
Yep - went down for a look. $250 for the fit puts it out of my "preventative" budget but will certainly reconsider it if I have any problems/pain. So far, I've had 200 pain free km's on the new bike so I'll wait a little longer to see if it's immediately necessary.

Thanks for your replies.


I found Kennedy's cyclefit a complete rip off!. He's a good talker and a great businessman because I left $900 poorer and a much worse cyclist.
Cipo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-05.-2005, 09:25 PM   #25
smartie
Registered User
 
smartie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berwick, Vic. Australia
Posts: 79
Default Re: Kennedy CycleFit

$900...... What did he do, replace almost the whole frame or something.

You could buy a heap of bits and keep swapping them around until you found something you were happy with.

I saw him in action at last year's GVBR. He was telling the assembled crowd that about 99% of the cyclists on the road were set up wrong and that his $250 cyclefit could fix them. My brother and i walked away very quickly as we have never had a fit and were both very comforatble on our bikes. Which left about 78 others who didn't have a fit problem out of the 8000 odd riders.
__________________
"I'm most dangerous when i'm cornered. I fall to pieces so quickly people get hit by the shrapnel." - Zaphod Beeblebrox, Galactic President.
smartie is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-05.-2005, 11:29 PM   #26
rooman
Registered User
 
rooman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Me!bourne, Lat/Long -37.9870,145.0419
Posts: 1,160
Default Re: Kennedy CycleFit

John has fitted many thousands of cyclists here in Oz and from O/Seas, many amateurs, and professionals, some very well known, household names in the world of elite cycling. But his bread and butter is YOU, and YOU, or I, would be hard pressed to find any riders, as clients of John or Steve who were not more comfortable after a Cyclefit "fit", and who were clearly now able to perform better on their bikes. I dare say the poster who claims being un-happy was more smarting at the cost than the real benefit from the fit, probably because of a hack bike anyway that was all wrong, and the $900 was a sensible necessity that could have been saved with a better considered purchase in the first place!

If you spent $900 at John's you would be stupid in the least not to go back and tell him you later figured you weren't happy...he'd stay with you till you were...that is what he does, so take that "claim" of one bleating heart with a grain of salt. If you had a hassle and wanted to bag him , he'd want to know, so go back whoever you are and get "fixed".

Some may be lucky enough to flook a fit on a bike purchase, like buying clothes off the rack...but most of us cant do that, not only our physiology, but our aims, aspirations, application and thought process all come under stress when we ride seriously and for a longer ride, more than 70 klms, then you know if you are comfortable or not, and if your performance and abilities suffer on the ride and linger in pain afterwards, then you know you have a problem.....then you need a proper detailed assessment or it will cost you heaps more in therapy and medical bills than a preventive Cyclefit from John Kennedy. So if anyone of those things are out of whack, it immediately comes apparent in pain, discomfort and a very unpleasant experience.....its not just what you can do with what you've got, its how you do it, why you do it and how often and for how long, that really matters....simply, a piece of string, a stick and a ruler wont do it for most...so if you want the cheap fix, you will get what you pay for....if you want a thoroughly considered logical and effective fit that goes beyond mere string drops, culminating in long term riding enjoyment, save your pennies up and then go see John.
........





Quote:
Originally Posted by smartie
$900...... What did he do, replace almost the whole frame or something.

You could buy a heap of bits and keep swapping them around until you found something you were happy with.

I saw him in action at last year's GVBR. He was telling the assembled crowd that about 99% of the cyclists on the road were set up wrong and that his $250 cyclefit could fix them. My brother and i walked away very quickly as we have never had a fit and were both very comforatble on our bikes. Which left about 78 others who didn't have a fit problem out of the 8000 odd riders.
rooman is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-05.-2005, 07:53 AM   #27
nitrous
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 201
Default Re: Kennedy CycleFit

Well, it's been a few months now since my original post and I'm happy to say that I'm VERY comfortable on the bike and am really glad I didn't drop $250 on a cycle fit. I'm sure John has done some good things for many people but I found that by riding a lot and by riding with experienced cyclists I was able to talk to them about my position, any pain I had and what i felt wasn't right. They made some suggestions and then I made some adjustments over a period of time so I am now in a really comfortable position, riding about 200km per week without pain and loving it.
nitrous is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-05.-2005, 08:28 AM   #28
Cipo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 10
Default Re: Kennedy CycleFit

Rooman,

I know John has fitted thousands of cyclists both amateur and professional, here and overseas. That is exactly what he told me. I cannot speak for them anymore than you can speak for me. The original poster was asking for opinions and I gave mine - nothing more, nothing less. I do not recall the original poster asking for positive comments only. So please do not assume I am "stupid" or have a "hack" bike or that I am a "bleating heart".

As it happens my experience with Kennedy's was a while ago now and I had forgoten about it until I saw this thread. I do not live in Melbourne so it was not convenient for me to simply drop back into Kennedy's. I did express my concerns over the phone to him on three occasions after the fit and his standard reply was "Give it time, you'll get used to it". He did not return my fourth and final call.

Let me give one example of where I think I was let down. John convinced me I needed a new saddle even though my old saddle had served me well for two years and I had no complaints. Apparently my old saddle was too much of a "ladies" saddle - too wide and not long enough. So he sold me a $250 saddle which was so uncomfortable I was painfully numb after each ride. But he kept telling me I would get used to it. After two months and about 1200km I gave up and went back to my original saddle. I ask you is that the right way to buy a saddle? To have a salesman tell you "Here, this is the saddle you need"? Incidentally the saddle he sold me was cheaper in every other bike store.

Two of John's objectives with me were to make me a better climber and to get me down in the drops more often and with more comfort. So he pushed my new saddle, together with the new carbon seatpost he sold me, way back over the rear wheel. Of course this helps in climbing. Isn't that why we are told to sit back in the saddle when climbing? But this doesn't mean you should be permanently back there. I understand he does this a lot. But it makes the bike horribly unstable at speed especially when descending.

His solution to get me down in the drops was to crank up the head stem with a bizarre combination of extensions. And yes it was now easier to get into the drops because the drops were not as low! But what about the rest of the time? I was so upright I was a parachute and the next time I rode into a head wind it was a disaster.

BTW I am not griping about the $900. Luckily I can afford it and I have well and truly shrugged it off and put it down to a life experience. I wish I knew then what I know now about bike setup. I now have a new, extremely comfortable bike anyway and the LBS staff were very expert at setting me up correctly - it was no "fluke".

I have no doubt that John Kennedy's Cyclefit has helped lots of people but it is naive to think it will help everyone. So, Rooman, please do not shoot the messenger.

Cipo







Quote:
Originally Posted by rooman
John has fitted many thousands of cyclists here in Oz and from O/Seas, many amateurs, and professionals, some very well known, household names in the world of elite cycling. But his bread and butter is YOU, and YOU, or I, would be hard pressed to find any riders, as clients of John or Steve who were not more comfortable after a Cyclefit "fit", and who were clearly now able to perform better on their bikes. I dare say the poster who claims being un-happy was more smarting at the cost than the real benefit from the fit, probably because of a hack bike anyway that was all wrong, and the $900 was a sensible necessity that could have been saved with a better considered purchase in the first place!

If you spent $900 at John's you would be stupid in the least not to go back and tell him you later figured you weren't happy...he'd stay with you till you were...that is what he does, so take that "claim" of one bleating heart with a grain of salt. If you had a hassle and wanted to bag him , he'd want to know, so go back whoever you are and get "fixed".

Some may be lucky enough to flook a fit on a bike purchase, like buying clothes off the rack...but most of us cant do that, not only our physiology, but our aims, aspirations, application and thought process all come under stress when we ride seriously and for a longer ride, more than 70 klms, then you know if you are comfortable or not, and if your performance and abilities suffer on the ride and linger in pain afterwards, then you know you have a problem.....then you need a proper detailed assessment or it will cost you heaps more in therapy and medical bills than a preventive Cyclefit from John Kennedy. So if anyone of those things are out of whack, it immediately comes apparent in pain, discomfort and a very unpleasant experience.....its not just what you can do with what you've got, its how you do it, why you do it and how often and for how long, that really matters....simply, a piece of string, a stick and a ruler wont do it for most...so if you want the cheap fix, you will get what you pay for....if you want a thoroughly considered logical and effective fit that goes beyond mere string drops, culminating in long term riding enjoyment, save your pennies up and then go see John.
........
Cipo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-05.-2005, 08:33 AM   #29
rooman
Registered User
 
rooman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Me!bourne, Lat/Long -37.9870,145.0419
Posts: 1,160
Default Re: Kennedy CycleFit

And its over a period of time that you come to know what is comfortable for you and what you are trying to achieve for yourself. Its the original set up that many can't get right from a quick fix, and not doing it right just exacerbates inherent problems.

Even John's clients need adjustments , as they get fitter, or fatter, or whatever, the changes to their fit needs are dynamic, nothing is permanent, and John is always happy to do that adjustment with you and for you , and usually gratis.

He is a through life support person, that is what his clients seek and that is what they get.

Good luck with your riding Nitrous, 200 a week is great, 200 in one hit-out is when the pain really comes to the fore and then, maybe, you just might want to spend a few more bucks to get a "fit", as its the long distance rides that really do find your spots of pain, just when you thought you had it right !

Ride hard, ride safe, but ride !

PS: And do the ride on Saturday May 7, to Support Melbourne Wheels for Justice, from Fed Square to Parliament House starts 9-30am. ( see the threads and posts in this forum) .

The "injustice" in sentencing in the McGee case is the injustice to Ian Humphries's memory and the real pain in cycling, everything else is a winner as long as we can ride safely and live to ride to enjoy...cheers
rooman is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-05.-2005, 10:13 AM   #30
rooman
Registered User
 
rooman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Me!bourne, Lat/Long -37.9870,145.0419
Posts: 1,160
Default Re: Kennedy CycleFit

Hi Cipo,

sounds like you had an interesting experience, one that I can relate to, I had a "hack frame" read "a frame of dimensions and geometry that didnt suit the aspirations or physiology of the rider."

I was a newby, I bought a high end Italian steel bike from a reputable bike shop for $3000, its was all set to go and according to them "perfect for me", well it gave me the downhill shimmies something awfull, I went back , they suggested I change the original steel fork for a carbon one, that would "dampen the resonance" they said.... so out I go, hit the hard Kilometers, first hint of a down hill a cross wind or some bumpy road at speed and whoa, I was nearly off, every time....I had spent over $400 on the fork, fitting it and the "drop string set-up" they offered for $50 extra.

Made no difference, I was aching in the hands, my feet were burning, my knees ached and stabbed me back, had trouble breathing/tight chest, my perineum had developed a numbness whilst riding I figured was now a long term injury and my back was a pain arena from sit bones to neck...., they too said , "ride more you'll get used to it!", not "well the frame is a bit small for you and the seat could be longer, and the cranks longer, the stem higher, the bars wider, all of the above"...nadda, just bye, have fun! and smiled at me.....

So I ventured around looking for a solution, and by accident walked into Kennedy's.

The first thing he asked was "what do you want from your riding?".

I said, "I am not that young any more, Ive been an athlete, but not seriously a rider, now I need low impact, high aerobic excercise , I want to lose weight, get fitter, get out, do bunch rides and go from there, maybe down the way, some competitive rides", OK, we made the apppointment and I arrived with my road bike, shoes, and $180 for the fit ( at that time).

You know the fit drill, so during that we had suggestions of:

" for you to use the bike you have, .... and, until you develop more riding strength, stamina and skill to be rid of the symptoms you have,..... your position requires changes to your set up now........ and again in two to three months when you're fitter, & more used to riding........ and adjustments will be necessary until you settle into the style of riding that will come from your mind/body/bike interaction......." noting that my fit will be different for Road, as opposed to Track, as opposed to Racing in short crits & TTs etc....

OK as for cost and components, we had choices of light (read carbon & $$s) or utility ( read alloy and $$Ss but less) I went for utitlity ( mainly FSA or generic bits) and ended up with a wider bar, raised and longer stem, longer seat post, longer seat.

I was just plain too big for the bike I had bought, I was not prepared to shell out for a new one and said I'd stick with that frame & transmission, and (thought to myself I would probably get a custom later on)...but for now, I wanted to make do with what I had, smarting that I had already unwisely thrown $3000+ at a bike that didnt suit me. ( Sound familiar?).

So I paid my fit fee, bought the parts, John & a mechanic both fitted them and my riding became heaven, from the first ride.

I was more open and could breathe better, somewhat more upright, so my hands and butt bore my ample weight more evenly and my back had less strain, I could see more of the road ahead in this natural position and hence no more neck pain, and my sit bones actually sat in the saddle on the right place and goodbye pain down there....( but if I sat forward it came back when I moved off my sit bones, stands to figure, the sit bones are the place to bear your weight not the perineum, and we have to teach the body to sit properly..that took time ( hence John's statement to you and to me- give it time". I lost the down hill shimmy largely, but it is still there on that bike a touch as the frame is too small , that I cant change, and it is a steel bike which allows the shimmy resonance to develop, easier than alloy or carbon. I just touch my knees to the top bar in descent and that dampens the vibration, and I move forward and lower to the top bar. Down hill stability is now there, but I have to work for it.

So, with perserverence and some dedication and willingness to accept advice I am happy to say my Kennedy experience has re-invigorated my life on the bike. I've made adjustments with John since then and at no charge, (I am sure I do buy a lot of coffee at his in-store café tho!)

I am glad your new bike from the LBS (local bike shop?) suits you better and you too are a happier rider from the experiences

I now have a track bike, (fitted by John) a ride to the shops-Hybrid, fitted..etc and am activley training for Masters events later this year, I am doing 1000+ klms a month on the road, 10 hours on the track, not a skerrick of pain, discomfort or ache, other than my heart rate from the interval work outs, I am enjoying my riding more than ever and looking forward to a healthy, comfortable,...well maybe competitively uncomfortable, but riding without pain from the riding itself...the rest is up to me.

I try not to shoot messengers, just like to get to the bottom of their message and see what the real problem is, seems we have done that ! Good luck and ride safe!

cheers Roo
rooman is offline  
Reply With Quote

Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT +10. The time now is 08:48 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Copyright © 2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2001 - 2006 cyclingforums.com

Links to websites we like:
Pezcyclingnews | Cyclingnews.com | Wine Zone | iinet