Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

Perro Loco

The new forms of erythropoietin or the small molecules that bind the Epo receptor ( such as cera- which appears to have a prolonged half life) all act in the same way by boosting red blood cell production. Their value are limited by the 50% rule and also the measurement of reticulocytes and hemaglobin that has been recently utilized.
They will be used by cyclists no doubt.

Roy Gardiner

LA is the most influential cyclist in the world, by far. His attitude to drugs is the old-school omerta of the pro peloton, and his treatment of whistleblowers such as Bassons has been disgraceful. This awful false note in his otherwise perfectly orchestrated PR machine is to me a strong indicator that all is not what it seems.

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dclnmurray

Sorry guys I am coming in cold and not going to read 11 pages of stuff. I am an Aussie and don't really care much for Lance and his abilities except to say I have recently read his book and I for one is in no doubt he is clean and true to sport. His abilities come from working extremely hard, focus on life and a rider that trains by climbing the mountains when no other cyclists would be out on the road.

Be mindful that only minutes seperate the men at the top of the mountain so close they are. Through this extra ordinary effort Lance has put in has made him get ahead by those couple of minutes.

cheers

Dave

RichBoyd

First post from me:

I suspect many of you claim more "for certain" knowledge and know-how of such things that you really have.

I, for one, can easily believe in natural physiological condition improvements from the age of, say, 21, to upper 20s or low 30s.

I also can easily believe in dramatic results coming from different training -- and not even necessarily more rigorous, although combine rigorous with other criteria and it could be an effective combination.

I can believe in the dramatic power of one frame of mind and mental outlook versus another.

I think the experience gained, even non-cycling experience, over some years is an intangible that can pay off in extreme competition. Even incremental advantages can be magnified many times when all the competitors are "on the edge."

Add tweaking of team support and tweaking the "peakage" for the TDF -- bring it all together and I am not the least bit shocked that someone, optimizing as many of these factors, and others that haven't occurred to me, could win the TDF by a minute or several minutes, the margins of recent years.

I have seen this in other extreme competitions, some competitors are just beyond the normal envelope in their capabilities, for reasons not apparent to others, and definitely having nothing to do with drugs or other cheating. And no doubt it's a mystery to people not in their unique vantage point. Any endeavor can be undertaken with some sort of "genius" that defies adequate description or quantification.

I know skepticism is fashionable and "faith" is easily mocked; let's say I'm skeptical of the skeptics in this instance. Until I see compelling reason to believe otherwise, and I have yet to see it in the discussion here, I will continue to see Lance and his accomplishments at face value.

-- RB

JohnO

For most of the 6 TDF's, one rider has been only a couple of minutes behind Lance. 80 hours of riding, and only a couple of minutes behind.

It's fascinating, and perhaps a bit telling, that the Lance naysayers have not also directed their arguments against Jan Ullrich as well. Haven't dug up dubious statements bereft of hard evidence from people with axes to grind. By all rights, Jan is physically the equal of Lance (and probably a bit stronger), as Lance's victories over Jan are usually attributed to smarter riding or better teamwork. So if Lance must be doping, the same vacuous argument would have it that Jan is doping as well. Probably Basso, too. And Kloden. And Mayo. What the hey - Indurain was probably juiced to the gills, right? After all, it took a juicer to unseat him, if the rather thin arguments regarding performance improvment are to be given any credence.

Of course, it could also be that a Texas redneck has outplanned, outorganized, outperformed, and just plain outsmarted the EU's best... so much so that he has singlehandedly redefined professional cycling... naah, it must be doping. The alternative is just too humiliating to even consider.

JohnO

Lance's lawyers successfully sued to stop doping tests, and that's how he got away with it? I'm shocked this never made the news. Wow, they must be well paid. Did they sue to hide the 'overwhelming evidence', all of which seems to come secondhand, via people who have an axe to grind against a certain team or individual? And always conveniently free of hard evidence? One phone call to the newsies would be all it takes, to witness a team member dumping empty EPO vials. One call to WADA by a disgruntled ex team member could catch them doping. But that call has never been made. Not against Postal, T-Mobile, not any of the top teams that you assert are doped out the wazoo. A muckraker like David Walsh digs through Lance's trash for five years, and all he can find is one disgruntled girl who thinks she might have seen something? Oh, there's the absurd tale about makeup to hide needle marks. Say, ladies - what happens when sweat hits makeup? The makeup lasts about two seconds.

Okay, Lance is an abrasive individual - you would be too if every clown in the world was pawing at you or shouting doping every time you won. In six years, he's bound to have made a lot of people mad with his aloof nature, seems to have made you mad from a distance. Yet no one has come forth with a shred of evidence, and quite a few people besides Emma O'Reilly have been fired from Postal. Why didn't Emma hang onto one of those EPO syringes she allegedly threw away? Even Monica kept her, um, stained dress...

Consider also - Lance starts training in November, while dopers like Millar are still chilling out. He's walking the course while Virenque sips wine. No wonder they have to juice up, they don't train nearly as hard. All the benefits of modern science, and they can't even catch one Texas good ol' boy on a bicycle...

I'm just having a hard time believing what appears to be a classic New York City Conspiracy Theory. Incredible ideas, until you start looking for verifiable facts to back them up.

Perro Loco

I think the black Helicopters are hoovering overhead.

A few things about Greg Stock

http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/...dec04news.shtml


He also said that there was an "85 percent correlation" between the Parvo virus and testicular cancer, prompting some to connect him with Lance Armstrong, who was also a member of the junior team at that time. However, Strock has issued a statement saying that Armstrong had no involvement in or knowledge of doping that Strock claims to have occurred. "I would hope that this statement will end any discussion of a relationship between my lawsuit and Lance. There simply is none," said Strock.
Regarding the bribe to win the thrift drug classic
The article in the French news weekly l'Express also alleges that Armstrong had bought off the Coors Light team in 1993 West Virginia, part of the the Triple Crown series which offered a million dollar prize for the winner of all three races (Thrift Drug Classic in Pittsburgh, K-Mart Tour of West Virginia, First Union USPRO Championships).

Former Coors Light team director Len Pettyjohn, reached by phone in Colorado Sunday, told Cyclingnews, "At the time, Mike Engleman (currently a coach with USA Cycling's women's program) was in second in West Virginia and he was getting tired. We didn't think we could beat Lance, so we agreed not to attack him so we could win team classification and he could win the overall.

"But when we got to Philly, there was no deal," Pettyjohn added. "And our guys didn't race like there was a deal. On the ninth time up the Manayunk Wall, Roberto Gaggioli attacked and made a selection. But he came back to the car after and said 'I hope (Lance) doesn't attack... I'm toast.' But Lance attacked on the last time up the Wall and there was nobody who could cover his move.

"I never saw any money change hands nor heard any of the guys talk about it," he said.


It should also be mentioned that subsequent studies have failed to find a correlation between Parvovirus B19 infecction and testicular cancer.
Yeah I know- Lance's secret army of black shade wearinfng lawyers paid off stock and pettyjohn to get them to say this....
Has or does Lance use PED? Don't know, much of what I have seen as "evidence" is pretty wifty. Prior to 98 I would be suspicious of any cyclist. OBJECTIVE data from the 98 tour de france showed ~14% of urine samples tested retrospectively positive for recombinant erythropoietin.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...t_uids=10864311

mjolnir2k

I read the first few posts by Limerickman and Flyer and then got bored...

Are you two guys that jealous of a bike rider that you are consumed by the thought that he must be doping. It's really quite sad and shows how limited you are mentally.

The assertion that his change in form is impossible without the use of a performance enhancing substance is ludicrous. Have either of you actually taken part in a competitive sporting event? I have raced for 12 years (MTB then Road) and the first few years I really suffered. My form was poor and my training skills were lacking.

In my third year of racing (CAT 3) I was sponsored by a small bike company in NJ and to meet their expectations I drastically altered my training regimen, dropped 15 pounds (175 to 160) and improved my cardio.

My fourth year found me placing in the top 10 consistently and taking several podiums (4-3rds, 6-2nds and 2-1sts). These were all races that I had not previously gotten out of the pack.

I am by NO MEANS close to any of these pro's in terms of ability, yet I was able to change my own performance drastically by means of training and diet.

Now consider that LA has WORLD CLASS coaches, trainers and equipment designed to enhance his performances and consider how he might have been able to do the same.

Try and set aside your hatred/ jealousy of LA for a second and possibly you might come to understand that extreme changes are possible without drugs.

I am positive that I will receive replies that I am another LA robot, but the fact is that there is NO PROOF to the doping allegations and LA is tested more than any other athlete alive. SHOW ME THE PROOF???/

Face the facts, you are both wrong. Now go out, get a bike and try riding it.

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