Page 14 - Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

07-05.-2005, 04:22 AM

#196

VeloFlash

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Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgthartman

Let's assume for the sake of argument that Lance is doping. How is it that after 6 TDF wins, no cyclist has been able to copy his doping routine and achive the same results?

To copy the doping routine, assuming LA dopes and did not evolve into an athletic freak from 1998 onwards, would require control, access, opportunity and money.

Look at Festina's systemic doping to 1998. It was carried out on a team basis funded from prize money. Professionally unqualified soigneurs were providing the advice and administration. Richard Virenque, who would have been one of France's most highly paid athletes, sought personal consultation with Dr. Ferrari (aka "Schumi") to go to a higher level. Virenque could not afford Ferrari.

Lance Armstrong must have Ferrari on a significant retainer. He can call him up on his team radio during a race on a mountain stage and flies him to and provides secret hotel accommodation at his training bases (refer deposition of LA personal assistant). Only Armstrong, who distinguishes his wealth from other elite riders with his corporate jet travel, body guards and gifts of Rolex watches, could afford the unique full time expertise that Ferrari provides.

Armstrong is the only elite rider that totally dominates and controls his team. Other riders are mere employees. Armstrong selects the team and can pick and choose the events he will compete. This provides an opportunity to synchronise with a program.

To be on a doping program requires partial drug testing avoidance during the big hit, which is followed by undetectable micro dosing. The way to avoid being tested and be within the rules is to notify your whereabouts to be in a location that would be inconvenient for the testers. I note in his personal assistant's deposition that LA trains in the Canary Islands. Why the Canary Islands?

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07-05.-2005, 04:31 AM

#197

MJtje

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Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

To meet 'Schumi'........nice setting, no press etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeloFlash

Why the Canary Islands?

07-05.-2005, 08:07 AM

#198

dhenderson85

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Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 6

Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiMan

Here is a quote from good bro "limerickman". Gets you thinking!

Could it be that Armstrongs drop in weight from a tour weight of about 170 to 158, along with "smarter training", could make such a HUGE difference in his performance in the tour? NOT!

Here's the good quote.

"Putting it very coarsely - the guy was a donkey, he's now a thoroughbred.
Donkey's don't become thoroughbreds.
The tapes prove it - 1995 TDF where did he finish ?
1 hour 30 mins behind Indurain.
Says it all really - and that was his third TDF.

Look at the other greats - Ullrich, Merckx, Hinault : they had won their first TDF in the first, second, attempts respectively.
Yet Armstrong in his third TDF is still 1 hour 30 mins behind the eventual winner."

I am not lance's number one fan, but to compare his performance in pre-cancer tours is unfair. He was a much larger cyclist who was hunting stage wins. After cancer he dropped a lot of weight and also became a much more dedicated and focused rider. I don't think it is a fair comparison, they are two different men.

10-05.-2005, 02:34 AM

#199

Tejano

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Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by limerickman

I find LA's explanations for his improvement to be unbelievable - quite simply.

The statistics are there for everyone to access.
I have watched cycling for more years than I care to remember and the explanations given by LA to explain his success as a stage race rider since 1999, and after having suffered cancer, do not ring true to me.

If Armstrong´s turnaround after cancer was the result of EPO, HGH, steroids... That means he was a clean cyclist before cancer! If he was doped pre-cancer then how does one account for the his "turnaround"?

And if Armstrong was clean from´93 to ´96 I think his palmares (already very impressive for a young
American learning the ropes) is even more impressive because he was competing against a peloton that was doped!

You´ve expressed that EPO can improve performance by 10-15%! This means Armstrong was the real deal at the tender age of 24!

My question is when did LA start using dope?

10-05.-2005, 07:20 AM	#201
House Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 860	Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!! Five days of bliss, I knew it couldn't last much longer.

10-05.-2005, 07:22 AM

#202

MJtje

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Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

Ooh boy.......you were waiting to make this comment

Quote:

Originally Posted by House

Five days of bliss, I knew it couldn't last much longer.

10-05.-2005, 07:25 AM

#203

House

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Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJtje

Ooh boy.......you were waiting to make this comment

Actually I was hoping that when I did it would be more like five years!

10-05.-2005, 07:26 AM

#204

Tejano

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Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer

No, it does not mean that. There are many other factors (doping & training and weight/power) which cloud the miracle of transformation from 'one-day rider' to a time-trialing grand tour athlete.

So you´re saying that Armstrongs training and weight/power ratio play an important part in the transformation?

What % does doping play in the change?

10-05.-2005, 07:33 AM

#205

Tejano

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Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by House

Actually I was hoping that when I did it would be more like five years!

What % do you think doping played in Armstrongs transformation?

You must be an idiot if you don´t think Armstrong is blessed with freaky genetics, busts his ass training, has a great team to support him, technological advantages because of the money LA Inc puts into winning the TDF, an approach and preparation which has transformed the TDF in a way which no other rider has before him!

15%

10%

What do you think?

10-05.-2005, 07:40 AM

#206

House

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Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tejano

I will assume that you quoted the wrong person.

10-05.-2005, 08:11 AM

#208

Tejano

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Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by House

I will assume that you quoted the wrong person.

Did I confuse you with the Haters? What´s your take? Has anyone been able to demonstrate that Armstrong didn´t make a huge transformation but progressed progressivley? If it could be demonstrated there was no transformation but only realization how would that affect the "Urban Myth" stance?

10-05.-2005, 08:28 AM

#209

MJtje

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Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

Pff my take, couldn't care less. Doping is in all sports, also in cycling. Most people in Europe are not that delussional about doping.......I do acknowledge that it is a problem, and if you tested positive youre positive period (sorry ty-fans). However, talking about doping doesn't change much in the world....there are waaaaaaay important things in life.
If I watch a bike race I never think of dopers attacking dopers. ''And doper 1 attacked doper 2.......yes doper 1 has won''. I just watch lance, basso, jan riding their asses of.....I mean put things in perspective it's not that big deal......
Watching tsunami's, people starfing in Africa and on and on........that IS important (that was my rant for today)

MJtje for pope

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tejano

10-05.-2005, 08:31 AM

#210

Tejano

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Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer

Great question.

This frames the "Lance Armstrong" debate nicely, but does not address the greater problem with widespread doping of all the other athletes.

Nevertheless, the Armstrong story is truly a miracle of modern medicine and deserves heavy scrutiny so that both the sporting public and the Cancer community can gain from it.

The Armstrong story begin with his teammates in 1990 & 1991. Two of his mates are still sick.

Lance recovered and won a TDF---so he is a commercial success and icon. Greg & Erich are just sick losers still battling for cash settlements.

Lance commenced work with Michele Ferrari after watching his riders smoke everyone. Finally in October 1995 they began their work together. By August 1996 Lance had Testicular Cancer.

Radiation, Chemo and massive loss of muscle mass followed as well as fatigue and immune system trauma changed Lance.

Post chemo---Lance immediately met back up with Michele Ferrari, and the blood doper specialist began his anabolic and anti-anemia work with a 'clean canvass' so to speak.

The rest is history. More sustainable power output (better for TTing and climbing) Less upper body weight (better for climbing, not for sprinting), and a net gain in sustainable power/weight.

The final result was a stage racer in the tradition of Ferrari's other clients(Tony Rominger & Evgini Berzin)

But the questions remain; What drugs did Armstrong & Ferrari use? In what doses? What frequecies?

Were any drugs pure research and unavailable to other racers? Did they super dose for the Tour only?

Since no disclosure on these critical matters, other than blanket denials, are ever published, we can only guess.

I do consider this lack of disclosure cheating.

So you won´t lay down a %! I find that interesting! You don´t really know how much doping improved his performance!

You must be an idiot if you don´t think Armstrong is blessed with freaky genetics, busts his ass training, has a great team to support him, technological advantages because of the money LA Inc puts into winning the TDF, an approach and preparation which has transformed the TDF in a way which no other rider (let me repeat this NO OTHER RIDER) has before him!

15%

10%

5%

2%

What do you think? I´ve looked at the "Urban Myth" and it has much more weight, both anecdotical and statistical than what I will name your "Mother of all Myths".

Your Yarn uses much more speculation, conjecture, and
hearsay!

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