Page 15 - Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

10-05.-2005, 07:36 AM

#211

Tejano

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Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJtje

Pff my take, couldn't care less. Doping is in all sports, also in cycling. Most people in Europe are not that delussional about doping.......I do acknowledge that it is a problem, and if you tested positive youre positive period (sorry ty-fans). However, talking about doping doesn't change much in the world....there are waaaaaaay important things in life.
If I watch a bike race I never think of dopers attacking dopers. ''And doper 1 attacked doper 2.......yes doper 1 has won''. I just watch lance, basso, jan riding their asses of.....I mean put things in perspective it's not that big deal......
Watching tsunami's, people starfing in Africa and on and on........that IS important (that was my rant for today)

MJtje for pope

Obviously! Who ever said this debate is important! It´s called male bonding!

11-05.-2005, 02:00 AM

#213

Tejano

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Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer

Idiot? Or maybe just in the know vrs confused by false themes?

I don´t claim that LA isn´t "looking out for himself", I question the claim he is doping!

I don´t think your an idiot but rather that you´ve bought into the propoganda that cycling is rotten all the way through!

Wasn´t it Leimrickman who posted that he´s got connections in the pro peloton and that not all riders are doped? I think that even included some top players if I remember correctly?

Your claims don´t hold weight! I agree with Ferrari when he says this stuff doesn´t fundamentally change a cyclists performance!

Virenque seemed to consitently do well in the tour after Festina and he claimed to be clean.

David Millar´s results in the World ITT´s didn´t fundamentally change from when he used and when he didn´t.

And the "Mule to Horse" shit is just that! My question is if Fillipo Simeoni was a Mule while he was using EPO, what was he before??????????????

11-05.-2005, 05:07 AM	#215
House Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 860	Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!! Tajano, check your private messages

11-05.-2005, 05:43 AM

#216

MJtje

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Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

This discussion will probably never end.......but just a question for you Flyer. You said you raced at high level....how high? You've won numerous races, all clean? Did friends of you dope or became professional riders...or were you?

Just trying to find an explanation what goes inside that head of yours, because posting that much about doping is somewhat odd/weird and maybe you can give an explanation for that

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer

I don't have your gift for being able to ascertain when an 'endorsed athlete' is lying to you about their personal doping. It could be a special gift, otherwise you're being duped by endorsed druggies.

I assume they are all lying when they deny drug use.

This way I was not disappointed when David Miller, after 90 days of angry denials and name calling rants, dropped his pretence and he admitted using Eprix. Although---you still seem to believe he did it as he admitted--just a few times and not when he won the 2003 TT World Title.

I think he is a liar---and I believe he doped routinely.

I was not surprised that Tyler Hamilton was busted---especially not after being teammates with Alex Zulle---another former mate of Richard Virenque. Zulle admitted doping in 2000---after he finished with Armstrong on the podium in 1999.

I was not surprised when 6 of the top ten in last year Tour of Guademala were EPO positive.

Stage races are very demanding and if winning is important--doping is essential.

I believe Richard Virenque is drug addict and pathalogical liar. Do you know many addicts who are frank and honest about subjects that will terminate their employment?

I was not surprised to read that the 1991 PDM mystery was NOT food poisoning, but EPO overdoses. This came out in 1997 after 6 years of denials.

And do not use limerickman to defend your 'theory' that today's TDF peloton is 'clean'. He never wrote that.

But you go on believing that certain riders are morally pure---and/or are so arrogant that they will forfeit huge synthetic advantages---in order to set records and collect more pay. (seems counter to human nature---but it's your belief, not mine)

You might wonder why Michele Ferrari thinks EPO use is no more dangerous than drinking orange juice? I mean, why endorse EPO use, if it does NOT help?

You read his 'commercial theme' and not his code of conduct. btw: He is gulity of malpractice---and it was not for avoiding illegal doping advice.

11-05.-2005, 06:07 AM

#217

Tejano

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Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer

And do not use limerickman to defend your 'theory' that today's TDF peloton is 'clean'. He never wrote that.

11-1-5 4:38 AM in this thread! Check it out!
-Leimericman

"Now we're moving on to dangerous territory.
The presumption is that LA simply caught up with an already doped peloton.
This is dangerous ground.

I have two contacts in the current peloton and I can tell you that not all pros
are dopeurs.
These sources are impeccable people and I have no reason to distrust their words.

It also depends how one defines doping.
What Flyer alleges is not just doping, it is Dr Frankenstein stuff.
It's taking the basic human raw material and fundamentally changing it in to someone who performs way beyond their capability.

If you're taking stuff in order to simply finish a course, tour, season - you are merely taking stuff to look after yourself.
Is this doping ?
Others take stuff and their performances dramtically improve - and to me they are the dopeurs.

I have no doubt some people will say that I have contradicted myself.
I oppose all artificial help - but I can do so in the knowledge that I could never be a contender.

But I do have sympathy for those who take stuff merely to ensure that they get a contract.
It's those who dope at the top of the sport who not only cheat their fellow competitors but they also put pressure on those further down the peloton to perform in order to earn a crust."

11-05.-2005, 06:36 AM

#220

Tejano

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Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer

This way I was not disappointed when David Miller, after 90 days of angry denials and name calling rants, dropped his pretence and he admitted using Eprix. Although---you still seem to believe he did it as he admitted--just a few times and not when he won the 2003 TT World Title.

I think he is a liar---and I believe he doped routinely.

David Millar admited using EPO in his ITT win in the 2003 Worlds and his title was taken away! I think! If I remember correctly.

He admited using in 2001 and 2003 he denied using in the final ITT of the TDF where he beat LA but one of his mates said he was doped!

Here are Millars World ITT times.

2001 Road World Championships - Results

Lisbon - Portugal: 9 – 14, 2001

Jan Ullrich (Ger-Tel) 51.49.99
David Millar (GBr-Cof) 6.30 (with EPO)
Santiago Botero Echeverry (Col-Kel) 11.73

2002 Road World Championships - Results

Hasselt-Zolder, Belgium, October 8-13, 2002

Santiago Botero Echeverry (Col) 48.08.45
Michael Rich (Ger) 08.23
Igor Gonzalez De Galdeano (Spa) 17.15
Laszlo Bodrogi (Hun) 25.53
Uwe Peschel (Ger) 33.76
David Millar (GBr) 35.32 (without EPO)

If you look at Millars Palmares you see a bigger differece in the years he says he dopes but his wins are mostly stages in multi day races.

2003

1er de la 1ere etape du 3

1er du classement général du Tour de Picardie -

1er de la 20eme etape du Tour de France

1er de la 4eme etape du Tour de Burgos

1er de la 17eme etape du Tour d'Espagne

1er du Championnat du Monde CLM

2002

2eme du classement général du Clasica de Alcobendas

1er de la 14eme etape du Tour de France

2001

1er du classement général du Circuit Cycliste Sarthe et Pays de la Lo

1er de la 4eme etape du Circuit Cycliste Sarthe et Pays de la Lo

1er de la 5eme etape du Circuit Cycliste Sarthe et

1er de la 5eme etape du Bicicleta vasca

1er de la 1ere etape du Tour d'Espagne

1er de la 6eme etape du Tour d'Espagne

-David Millar

"There aren't drugs that do what Lance is doing. Lance could be on all the drugs in the world, but they don't do that. I know they don't do that. He's a force of nature."

"I know who does and doesn't and I know what doping does and doesn't do, and there are no miracle products. It doesn't make a donkey into a thoroughbred."

You still haven´t responded to my questioin!

If Fillipo Simeoni was a mule on EPO what was he before that?

Last edited by Tejano : 11-05.-2005 at 06:48 AM.

11-05.-2005, 06:44 AM

#221

VeloFlash

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Posts: 696

Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tejano

11-1-5 4:38 AM in this thread! Check it out!
-Leimericman

"<snip>....I have two contacts in the current peloton and I can tell you that not all pros are dopeurs.
These sources are impeccable people and I have no reason to distrust their words." <snip>

Willy Voet, the Festina soigneur, claimed in his book that only 95% of the peloton are on illegal drugs.

The clean riders are known throughout the peloton and, according to Voet, have no chance of making the final podium in a multi stage race.

Limerickman's sources are in accordance with Voet's claim.

__________________
VF

"Remember, even if you win the rat race, you are still a rat"

11-05.-2005, 06:49 AM	#224
snyper0311 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 262	Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!! Well now! Here is the pot calling the kettle black! However, I did drink coffee before most morning races. Well, what substance is in coffee- is it cafine?????? Taking stuff to 'finish a race' is NOT considered doping by most athletes. I consider it doping. You'll need to learn what 'stuff' means. As you state in ALL of your posts, if it's on the banned list, it's doping! Way to preach-DOPER! According to your own posts on this site, you use performance enhancers! And now, if you can see how obserd this sounds, then you now see how ALL of your posts sound!

11-05.-2005, 06:51 AM

#225

Tejano

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Posts: 136

Re: Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeloFlash

When was the book first published? And during what years is the quote refering to?

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