Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

Biscayne

Flyer, you've made a tremendous number of statements. Most of them I've been able to find sources to verify on my own, but a few others not. I'm hoping you can steer me to your sources for these claims from your posts. I know they must be out there somewhere, but Google does have it's limitations :

"Laurent Fignon believes that in 1990, EPO became standard medicine amongst GC contenders"

"Francesco Conconi, the ... mastermind of the Team USA 1984 Olympic blood transfusions"

"On or about November 1994, Eddy Merckx introduced Lance to Michele Ferrari"

"Jacques Aquetil ... said that Tom Simpson died because he did not use enough drugs!"

"Lots of doping proof on Jan as well."


Also, I'm hoping you can shed more light on Chris Carmichael, how he fits in all this, his background, career history, etc. All I've read is that he was an alternate on the 1984 olympic team, rode briefly for 7-11, has coached the US National team, and has coached Lance. It would be interesting when you have time, to have a post from you telling about his career, and his other connections.

Also, thinking of that 7-11 team, what of Eric Heiden, now Dr. Eric Heiden? Here is someone who had so much going off the bike that he literally didn't need to give in to doping to make a living. Was he doping as a skater? Was he doping as a cyclist? Do you know if he's ever spoken out on the topic of doping in sports?

Also, I'm confused about LeMond. On the one hand, you've listed Andy Hampsten and Charlie Mottet as the only two clean riders of that era, which implied LeMond was not, yet on the other hand, you seem to imply he's "clean". Which is it?

As for Hampsten, I'm similarly confused. On the one hand, you say it's physically impossible to make it through a Grand Tour without doping -- that after 3 days, recovery to stay with the peloton is simply not possible without aid. And that at the elite level, there is very, very little difference between the riders, that they're all genetic freaks. Yet on the other hand, you suggest the doping provides 10%-15% performance. That seems to suggest Hampsten could not be clean and come anywhere near hanging on to the back of the peloton, much less climbing off the front, showing stronger on a couple alpine stages than even the 5-time Tour winner Bernard Hinault and 3-time winner LeMond, and finishing just off the podium. Also, if it turns out you think LeMond was clean, then I'm having a tough time getting this apparent contradiction to square up.

And one last question (for now), I've found several stories with comment from Greg Strock. But I've not found anything with claims/accusations from Erich Kaiter, Gerrik Latta and David Francis, who you say all have gone on the record corroborating Strock's claims. Can you steer me to where I find documentation on that?

Thanks.

Biscayne

What on earth took you so long to post?

We have been expecting you since last years big surprise.

Been busy?



What on earth are you talking about? You obviously think I'm someone you've intereacted with before? I'm not. I do not want to be caught in your wars with people. I'm a person who's interested in the topic, invested a ton of time reading through a number of your lengthy threads to try and get more knowledge, and found myself with some questions and in search of additional information.


System U & Castorama alum can fill in some gaps in your dossier.

Jacques Anquetil has made many such remarks re: doping prior to his pancreatic cancer death at age 53.

So too has Luc Leblanc.

Still there are news links to most of these items----
All the juniors did interviews.


I don't know how I could have been much clearer -- I'm not questioning that the other jr members of Armstrong's team said what you claim, or even that they're out there online, just that I CAN'T FIND THEM AND WOULD APPRECIATE A LITTLE HELP.

So, it's very simple. Will you be kind enough to help me find the sources I asked for or not? I realize you seem to have gotten yourself into a bunker-mode where anyone who asks a question is somehow translated into challenging your authority, knowledge or integrity, but that's NOT what this is about.

Now ... would you like to assist or simply get beligerent and drive me out of the forum concluding there's nothing more I can learn here?

Biscayne

Try these links ...


THANK YOU! O.k. so it looks like Latta omitted Carmichael from his suit too?

So here we have 3 guys on that team all suing. But that article is 2002. It's three years later. I know our court system moves slowly, but shouldn't there be some kind of additional news by now? Shouldn't these guys' suits have gotten to the discovery phase by now? And shouldn't there be information from the depositions? That should be pretty explosive stuff.

Even if, as you said in one of your posts, their lawyers sent demand letters to Carmichael, and Carmichael responded by negotiating a settlement that included some kind of confidentiality gag, their lawyers could still be asking all kinds of questions in depositions of Wenzel and Fraser that would incriminate Carmichael, if he was involved.

Do you have any update on what's happened to these cases and why we don't have anything written more recently?

Also ... I really would be interested to have my previous questions on Hampsten and LeMond clarified. Those guys were in my earliest intersection with cycling and racing, watching Hampsten ride for the Levis team, unafraid to challenge the Europeans all by himself, even though he had basically no team support up among the leaders.


BTW, a simple "hey, I'm sorry, I mistook you for someone else, otherwise I wouldn't have unloaded on you like that, I apologize, and welcome to the board, we're always glad to have a new face who shares a common interest" would have been nice.

Biscayne

You have no idea who is out there.

Yes, as I said before, I'm probably a little naive, and no, I don't have any idea what this nefarious world is all about and who's "out there". If you want, you could explain it to me. Are you suggesting you don't want to explain my questions about Hampsten's performances because you are afraid there are people out there reading this board who are out to get you and that answering my questions would expose you to some danger? I truly hope not.

And if you you are suggesting that Carmichael was not present in hotel rooms and traveled to Italy with these children and throughout the USA. It is easy to establish.

Enough with trying to pick a fight, ok? READ MY POST. Did I suggest or say any such thing or anything remotely like that? NO. You have constructed a strawman for yourself by putting words in my mouth. My simple question was about whether there were updates on the lawsuits since 2002, and that if Carmichael had been part of the doping, it would be almost guaranteed to come out in a routine deposition of the other doctors. It would be nuts for riders' lawyers to depose Wentzel and not ask lots of questions about who was present, who was involved, etc., etc. They'd be crazy not to try and gather every detail they possibly could about the entire web.

Max Testa even confirmed Lance's first Italy trip in last month's Pro Cycling. He claimed that: 1) a desperate Carmichael called him at his Como office and asked for help with the sick kids.

Well, you'll have to help me ... who is Max Testa? And where can I find his account of all this? Does Carmichael calling him to help with sick kids mean that Carmichael made them sick? Honestly, you've got to understand, some of us are very willing to condemn guilty people, but we're unwilling just to assume people guilty without at least some shred of evidence. If Carmichael was injecting these kids, I'd like to know. If there is ANY legitimate claim from anyone that that is the case, then I will personally go apeshit on OLN for putting the guy on t.v. as a face of cycling. But for now, all I know is he traveled with the team, and that for some reason he was not sued, and hasn't been claimed by anyone who was there or involved to have been involved in doping.

2) when Max examined a sick Lance Armstrong---Max ordered rest and no bike riding.

The 18 year old Armstrong demanded an injection of antibiotics because he was going to win the race tomorrow, not rest. He did and he did.

It is always telling when 18 year olds instruct 33 year old physicians ...

Well, actually, when I was that age, I did all kinds of incredibly stupid stuff, and I told doctors to just patch me up so I could go back on the field and play. I know you want to view every single action as a confirmation of doping, but that doesn't help your credibility. No, you don't have to be a doper to have, as an 18 year old, asked a doctor to give you anti-biotics to get you well so you could go back and play your sport.

Tejano

Flyer is a lot out there! Hampsten was clean he claims! Hampsten has been quoted as saying that all but the most gifted athletes had to start using EPO or they would be passed up by the majority of the peloton! Hampsten had first hand experience competing against these doped athletes and he claimed the best of the best didn´t need the stuff to stay at the top!

David Millar (I think) admitted to using EPO. He said he knows what the stuff does and it isn´t the explination as to why Lance has won 7 T´sDF! He said LA is a freak of nature!

Ask Flyer about Filippo Simioni! He was a client of Dr. Ferrari but after one year he left Ferrari because he was unsatisfied with his results and his team refused to pay for his visits! This is the same Dr. Ferrari who said EPO doesn´t fundamentally change a riders performance!

If you have a large group of riders all at a similiar level and half of them start to use EPO that half will probably be a little bit better than those not using but it will not create a Lance ARmstrong because it doesn´t fundamentally change performance, thus the eternal question.

If Filippo Simioni was a mule on EPO (check out his palmares! not very impressive) what was Filippo Simioni before EPO! That´s a million dollar question! If this shit is so god damn powerfull what happened to poor Filippo?

Flyer will respond a failed experiment! A truly pathetic response! LA doesn´t use EPO, HGH- He probably looks out for himself, but not even Limerickman would condemn him for that!

kennf

Flyer, you've finally said something I can agree with.

Tejano

I don´t remember Lemonds wife reporting LA said everyone used EPO! You´ll have to show me that quote ´cause I remember something a little different.

Here is another riddle for you! How the hell did Greg Lemond hold the record for fastest ITT in a TDF all through the damn 90´s when EPO was supposedly used by 95% of the peloton (if you believe some guy who worked for some cycling team)? GL complains how he couldn´t compete yet his record stood until was it 2002f? He road a short course a little down hill but come on! If EPO improves performance 10-15% some one should have beaten his record especially with the advances with technology, training, and nutrition during the 90´s!