Armstrong has been tinkered with!!

jcthomasjr

I think it would be safe to say that you do not know what Mr. Armstrong does either. I have been lurking on this thread and have posted previously, and must say that there appears to be hearsay on both sides.

This is a debate and people are entitled to their opinions, but at this point that is all it can possibly be, an opinion. It seems that some people feel their opinion bears more weight than others.

I have said this before and I will say it again, I am a cancer survivor who no longer has a hamstring muscle in my right leg. My riding improved after my 9 months of chemo, surgery, and radiation. I don't know if I suffer any more than some of the people I ride with, but I do know that I do not know the meaning of the words "give up". My struggle with cancer was a nightmare and the treatment almost killed me so torturing myself on a bicycle is a far cry from the months I spent agonizing over whether I would survive and what my future health would be like.

I thought I would throw this in because I have read statements in previous posts where the poster has stated they can not believe that Mr. Armstrong's coming back from cancer at a lower weight and with a new lease on life is enough to make him a tour winner. I can not argue whether he dopes or not, but I sure can state from experience and fact that you can not ever doubt the will and power of the mind. How do you explain the guy with one leg who can ride up L'Alp as fast as others who have two legs. You know what the explanation is, he trains as hard as hell, and he does not take no for an answer. Sheer willpower. It's funny how far it can actually take you. On the other hand, it's not funny because it is true.

In regards to someone stating that all pro cyclists train as hard as Armstrong, I do not believe that all athletes train at the same level. Jens Voight admitted in an interview that when he wakes up and notices that it is raining outside it puts a smile on his face because he knows that not all the other riders will be out that day. This is a very single minded example, but it is an example nontheless that variations in training intensities and training programs exist.

Reading some of these posts it seems to me that I might as well give up whatever thoughts I have on the subject, because some of you already appear to have the answers or know certain things that the rest of us do not. I think I will stick to my gut instincts because I know better than to let other people tell me what to think. And I can also look inside myself and know that I and others have kicked a disease that kills and that I will forever live my life with an enthusiasm and intensity that some people share, but certainly not all. There will always be doubters in all walks of life.

__________________
Like each bike ride, life is a journey.

limerickman

Whether intimidation is overt or covert, is frankly immaterial.
You need to check your facts before posting.

Simeoni initiated legal actions against LA BEFORE THE TDF.
The fact of the matter is that LA should not have even spoken with Simeoni during the TDF, gien the fact that Simeoni had initiated on-going legal action
against LA.
The fact that he did so - in front of millions of people, was a stupid move.
Bruyneel the great tactician missed that little contratemp, didn't he ?
How tactically inept of JB to allow his rider to make such a mistake in front of millions of people too.

limerickman

I'm glad that you acknowledge that you watch TV Cop soap operas, because everything you've posted is baloney.

Simeoni admitted his guillt and served his ban before the TDF started.
He launched a civil case - personally - against LA for remarks which he (LA)
made against Simeoni before the TDF.
This civil case is a serparate action to the Italian authorities case against Michele Ferrari.
They are separate issues.
Two separate cases.
One civil (Simeoni V La)
One criminal (Italy V Ferrari).





Wrong again.

The Italian authorities - state authorities - intiated their investigation of Ferrari.
In simple terms - Briscoe and Green in Law & Order were sent by DA McCoy to arrest and charge Ferrari.
That should crystallise this for you.



Well it's obvious that you don't follow what is happening because you would have known the difference between two separate legal actions, both concerning Ferrari but both un-connected with each other!

As for the Mussolini charge - xenophobia.

meb

Like the folks who defend their friends by vandalizing witnesses’ homes or business who testify against their friends in trials?



Most people in civilized society would not take the law into their own hands.



May have been that this was his only opportunity, he may have wanted to send a message to any other potential whistle blowers that he is not going to tolerate such singing and is strong enough and determined enough to ruin or damage their careers. May also have been caught surprised to see Simeoni chasing down a breakaway consisting of bunch of weaker riders.



So are you contending that Simeoni was committing perjury in the court proceeding so given such perjury in the courtroom Lance was justified in taking the law into his own hands? And such action supports innocence of witness intimidation-a charge that had no basis but for the act in the TDF?

meb

You don’t often have a rider take action to his detriment toward winning the TDF chase down a witness in a criminal trial to damage the witness’ cycling career by precluding his winning a stage-a stage the intimidator didn’t even have a desire for or make an effort toward winning himself.




No-he’d stay away from the witness in the criminal case if he were clean rather than interfere with the judicial process outside the process. There are proper ways to inject oneself into a judicial process. Ferrari’s attorneys would have welcomed any relevant testimony from a witness having information aiding in exoneration of their client.





So with this stated motive, are you flipping your position?

hombredesubaru

For a person called limerickman your posts are decidedly lacking in humor, wit, and panache. You are either trolling for an argument or severely lacking in perspective. Take a deep breath, count to ten, and nursey will be right along with you medication (we all hope.)

hombredesubaru

No, just observing that LA has the big picture in mind and that if Ferarri is damaging to him, he;d cut him loose as he HAD to do when Ferarri was convicted.

The point is that Lance can be pretty matter of fact in letting associates go- F. Andrieu, K Livingston, etc etc, so I'm assuming Ferarri was actually worthy of Lance defending him or he would not work with him in the first place, not stay with him etc, and not defend him against Simeoni unless he had good, legitimate reasons to do so. Lance's reputation is a valuable as his cycling, so if he really thought Ferarri were trouble and possible involved in doping I think he would have sold him down the river far earlier.

micron

'He told me that I was wrong to say what I had, that my team probably wasn't going to continue, that I would do better to think of my own interests. I said that I was thinking of the next generation of cyclists above myself. He said 'why don't you leave, then?'' I said I wasn't going to leave until I had tried to change cycling.'

This is not Armstrong talking to Filippo Simeoni but to Christophe Bassons who set out to ride the 99 Tour 'a l'eau claire' i.e. without doping help. Bassons great error? To denounce the doping practices he saw in the Pro peloton. Armstrong later visited Bassons hotel room and told him to leave the Tour. Ironically enough, he had the above conversation when chasing down Bassons after he had attacked (see a pattern emerging?)

bspeedy, subaru et al: a question. Bassons was speaking out against doping practices from the perspective of being a totally clean rider (unlike Simeoni who is a convicted doper). Why wouldn't Armstrong - who is a self-avowedly totally clean rider - stand shoulder to shoulder with Bassons and speak out about doping in the peloton? Why would he want to side with the peloton against a clean rider? This is the incident that first made me sit up and think twice about the Armstrong miracle.

So I'm interested in your comments - and what would you have done as cyclists who are, I presume, anti-doping?

oldnbusted

I admit i am skeptical as to exactly how Armstrong became the machine he is now, not necessarily through drugs. Suffice to say, my thoughts are that rather than worrying about Lance, the more pressing issue is the next generation of riders coming up now, surely the best place to eradicate drugs effectively would be in the up and comers, although i know this is next to impossible.

Just out of curiosity, someone mentioned insulin earlier in the thread, how the hell do you cheat with that?

micron

Just out of curiosity, someone mentioned insulin earlier in the thread, how the hell do you cheat with that?[/QUOTE]

It's easy to obtain, it increases stamina and, best of all, its undetectable.


Insulin the new dope

micron

Just out of curiosity, someone mentioned insulin earlier in the thread, how the hell do you cheat with that?[/QUOTE]

It's easy to obtain, it increases stamina and, best of all, its undetectable. And I believe Armstrong has admitted to having it in his medical kit.


Insulin the new dope

hombredesubaru

Here is the news on Bassons:
from BBC 1999:

"Mr. Clean

Bassons: Self-styled Mr Clean quit the Tour on Friday
One French rider, Christophe Bassons, believes the leading riders are still taking performance-enhancing drugs.

The rider - who styles himself as cycling's "Mr Clean" - pulled out of the Tour on Friday.

On Saturday he said he had no regrets about leaving after the La Francaise des Jeux team asked him to stop talking to the media.

"I just felt I had an obligation to leave the Tour," explained Bassons."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sport/to...ance/397095.stm

So get it straight for a change you Lance detractors!

Bassons was a paid journalist, writing entries into the French newspaper Le Parisien during the Tour de France 1999, who were looking for a rider on the inside to give them the scoop after the Festina scandal of 1998. So they had Bassons. His TEAM FdJ asked him to stop speaking out on behalf of the anti-doping crusader!! Maybe Lance did too. The guy was just looking for publicity or money. It seems that he was despised in the peloton and even by his team members who all felt he was casting doubts on everyone.

And as to whether Bassons was clean, who knows? He rode for Festina right 1996-1998, hmmm interesting time to ride for Festina?

I think the best way to fight doping is for riders to compete without doing drugs. Writing columns about how you know you are clean but everyone else dopes is stupid, dishonest, and ineffective. If I were riding with that guy, I would stick a water bottle in his front wheel, because that's what he is doing to the peloton and the sport as a whole.


But you dont have to believe me, here's what Richard Virenque says about M. Bassons during the 1999 TdF in L'Equipe:

On Christophe Bassons, sensitive readers please skip this paragraph: "He was used to create a polemic. I hope he will now be able to concentrate on his sports career. He became a professional to ride a bike. Before going and making declarations about others whom are in my profession, I would try first to get to the top of my field. If I thought certain things about riders who have more class than me, I would keep my comments to myself."